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Anonymous wrote:I recognize you, OP. Do you ever get tired of beating the same bush. Either cut them off or stop talking about it. I'm guessing you are as obnoxious to them as they are to you. I know you try my nerves and I just have to see your posts about this on occasion.

Not OP but why do you read posts that try your nerves? Do you ever get tired of doing this to yourself? You are obnoxious.

Basically, I wonder why people have to post repeatedly about the same thing. It's as if they have a massive victim mentality and get attention with their "problems" here. If they really wanted to solve their issues they would get help. It is rarely a one-side issue. But OP and people like her are getting attention by posting repeatedly on the same issue. And that's what they want. Attention. A version of Münchausen syndrome.

Doesn't it actually help if they get a reality check that maybe they are part of the problem?

It actually is often a one-sided issue. As you can see it's only one side that has an issue. In this world there are definitely perpetrators that do things just because they want to not caring about the consequences.

My point is that we are only getting OP's side of the story. There are always two sides of every story involving human beings. Each one sees it through their own lens and their own experiences. But whatever about that. I'm just saying that people who talk/complain/post repeatedly about an issue and do nothing to solve it are simply ruminating. At least the people who say I just need to vent are self aware enough to know that they just want to get it off their chests, relieve the pressure of a situation that is either unsolveable or they don't want the consequences of what the/a solution entails.

I just think people like the OP should become more self aware, and by doing so, maybe they'd be able to handle their issues better.

Lots of people post some version of OP's story. Heck, I have posted something along the same lines in the past.

OP- if other relatives are estranged from your parents, it most certainly is NOT you. Don't listen to these "every story has 2 sides" people. That's not always the case.

How is it possible that anyone believes that there is ever only one side of a story? Of course everyone has their own version. How can you be so self involved as to believe otherwise?

What can be true is that the level of difference a person has is too much for the other to deal with. Fine, then move on. But you people who act like you are blameless or perfect or superior to the other is myopic. You're just different or incompatible.

If multiple family members (both blood and married in, especially) are estranged from someone, then fine, there can be 2 sides to the story. But 1 side is wrong. And it's not self involved to admit that. It's smart.

So if both sides claimed to be wronged, how do you sort out which it is? I'm dealing with two family parties in an estrangment who vehemently say it's the other side. I feel pulled in both directions. There is no physical abuse allegations, FWIW, just emotional manipulation and verbal slights. They both seem like they've played a part, TBH, but of course one of them must be more wrong. How do I figure it out- please help. SHould I hire a family thereapist to be a mediator?

Easy. Don’t pick a side and let them deal with it.

But also be prepared that one of them will cut you off too with this approach. But then you have your answer. My two best friends from college were increasingly in conflict and eventually stopped talking. I didn't want to pick a side and tried to remain friends with both of them. One of my friends accepted that, the other didn't and dumped me for not taking her side. I'm still close to the former, haven't talked to the latter in 20 years.

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Anonymous wrote:I recognize you, OP. Do you ever get tired of beating the same bush. Either cut them off or stop talking about it. I'm guessing you are as obnoxious to them as they are to you. I know you try my nerves and I just have to see your posts about this on occasion.

Not OP but why do you read posts that try your nerves? Do you ever get tired of doing this to yourself? You are obnoxious.

Basically, I wonder why people have to post repeatedly about the same thing. It's as if they have a massive victim mentality and get attention with their "problems" here. If they really wanted to solve their issues they would get help. It is rarely a one-side issue. But OP and people like her are getting attention by posting repeatedly on the same issue. And that's what they want. Attention. A version of Münchausen syndrome.

Doesn't it actually help if they get a reality check that maybe they are part of the problem?

It actually is often a one-sided issue. As you can see it's only one side that has an issue. In this world there are definitely perpetrators that do things just because they want to not caring about the consequences.

My point is that we are only getting OP's side of the story. There are always two sides of every story involving human beings. Each one sees it through their own lens and their own experiences. But whatever about that. I'm just saying that people who talk/complain/post repeatedly about an issue and do nothing to solve it are simply ruminating. At least the people who say I just need to vent are self aware enough to know that they just want to get it off their chests, relieve the pressure of a situation that is either unsolveable or they don't want the consequences of what the/a solution entails.

I just think people like the OP should become more self aware, and by doing so, maybe they'd be able to handle their issues better.

Lots of people post some version of OP's story. Heck, I have posted something along the same lines in the past.

OP- if other relatives are estranged from your parents, it most certainly is NOT you. Don't listen to these "every story has 2 sides" people. That's not always the case.

How is it possible that anyone believes that there is ever only one side of a story? Of course everyone has their own version. How can you be so self involved as to believe otherwise?

What can be true is that the level of difference a person has is too much for the other to deal with. Fine, then move on. But you people who act like you are blameless or perfect or superior to the other is myopic. You're just different or incompatible.

If multiple family members (both blood and married in, especially) are estranged from someone, then fine, there can be 2 sides to the story. But 1 side is wrong. And it's not self involved to admit that. It's smart.

So if both sides claimed to be wronged, how do you sort out which it is? I'm dealing with two family parties in an estrangment who vehemently say it's the other side. I feel pulled in both directions. There is no physical abuse allegations, FWIW, just emotional manipulation and verbal slights. They both seem like they've played a part, TBH, but of course one of them must be more wrong. How do I figure it out- please help. SHould I hire a family thereapist to be a mediator?

Boundaries. No need to be dramatic. The "just emotional manipulation and verbal slights" shows me where you stand on emotional abuse. If you want to remain close to both, you gently let them know you don't want to hear about the other and you do not share information about them to eachother. If you entertain and invite them both, you let them both know so they can decline to protect themselves and you accept graciously one or both declining. It really is that simple. Stay out. If they continue to drag you in, you keep your boundaries. If one dumps you for not taking sides, then you just accept that.

Be prepared that sometimes people who need to have a target will find a new target. Hopefully, it won't be you. In the case of my mother, once it was clear no abuse would be tolerated she started lashing out at the others, the same people who thought she was so kind and full of praise.In that case, once again, boundaries.

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Anonymous wrote:I recognize you, OP. Do you ever get tired of beating the same bush. Either cut them off or stop talking about it. I'm guessing you are as obnoxious to them as they are to you. I know you try my nerves and I just have to see your posts about this on occasion.

Not OP but why do you read posts that try your nerves? Do you ever get tired of doing this to yourself? You are obnoxious.

Basically, I wonder why people have to post repeatedly about the same thing. It's as if they have a massive victim mentality and get attention with their "problems" here. If they really wanted to solve their issues they would get help. It is rarely a one-side issue. But OP and people like her are getting attention by posting repeatedly on the same issue. And that's what they want. Attention. A version of Münchausen syndrome.

Doesn't it actually help if they get a reality check that maybe they are part of the problem?

It actually is often a one-sided issue. As you can see it's only one side that has an issue. In this world there are definitely perpetrators that do things just because they want to not caring about the consequences.

My point is that we are only getting OP's side of the story. There are always two sides of every story involving human beings. Each one sees it through their own lens and their own experiences. But whatever about that. I'm just saying that people who talk/complain/post repeatedly about an issue and do nothing to solve it are simply ruminating. At least the people who say I just need to vent are self aware enough to know that they just want to get it off their chests, relieve the pressure of a situation that is either unsolveable or they don't want the consequences of what the/a solution entails.

I just think people like the OP should become more self aware, and by doing so, maybe they'd be able to handle their issues better.

Lots of people post some version of OP's story. Heck, I have posted something along the same lines in the past.

OP- if other relatives are estranged from your parents, it most certainly is NOT you. Don't listen to these "every story has 2 sides" people. That's not always the case.

How is it possible that anyone believes that there is ever only one side of a story? Of course everyone has their own version. How can you be so self involved as to believe otherwise?

What can be true is that the level of difference a person has is too much for the other to deal with. Fine, then move on. But you people who act like you are blameless or perfect or superior to the other is myopic. You're just different or incompatible.

If multiple family members (both blood and married in, especially) are estranged from someone, then fine, there can be 2 sides to the story. But 1 side is wrong. And it's not self involved to admit that. It's smart.

So if both sides claimed to be wronged, how do you sort out which it is? I'm dealing with two family parties in an estrangment who vehemently say it's the other side. I feel pulled in both directions. There is no physical abuse allegations, FWIW, just emotional manipulation and verbal slights. They both seem like they've played a part, TBH, but of course one of them must be more wrong. How do I figure it out- please help. SHould I hire a family thereapist to be a mediator?

Easy. Don’t pick a side and let them deal with it.

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Anonymous wrote:I recognize you, OP. Do you ever get tired of beating the same bush. Either cut them off or stop talking about it. I'm guessing you are as obnoxious to them as they are to you. I know you try my nerves and I just have to see your posts about this on occasion.

Not OP but why do you read posts that try your nerves? Do you ever get tired of doing this to yourself? You are obnoxious.

Basically, I wonder why people have to post repeatedly about the same thing. It's as if they have a massive victim mentality and get attention with their "problems" here. If they really wanted to solve their issues they would get help. It is rarely a one-side issue. But OP and people like her are getting attention by posting repeatedly on the same issue. And that's what they want. Attention. A version of Münchausen syndrome.

Doesn't it actually help if they get a reality check that maybe they are part of the problem?

It actually is often a one-sided issue. As you can see it's only one side that has an issue. In this world there are definitely perpetrators that do things just because they want to not caring about the consequences.

My point is that we are only getting OP's side of the story. There are always two sides of every story involving human beings. Each one sees it through their own lens and their own experiences. But whatever about that. I'm just saying that people who talk/complain/post repeatedly about an issue and do nothing to solve it are simply ruminating. At least the people who say I just need to vent are self aware enough to know that they just want to get it off their chests, relieve the pressure of a situation that is either unsolveable or they don't want the consequences of what the/a solution entails.

I just think people like the OP should become more self aware, and by doing so, maybe they'd be able to handle their issues better.

Lots of people post some version of OP's story. Heck, I have posted something along the same lines in the past.

OP- if other relatives are estranged from your parents, it most certainly is NOT you. Don't listen to these "every story has 2 sides" people. That's not always the case.

How is it possible that anyone believes that there is ever only one side of a story? Of course everyone has their own version. How can you be so self involved as to believe otherwise?

What can be true is that the level of difference a person has is too much for the other to deal with. Fine, then move on. But you people who act like you are blameless or perfect or superior to the other is myopic. You're just different or incompatible.

If multiple family members (both blood and married in, especially) are estranged from someone, then fine, there can be 2 sides to the story. But 1 side is wrong. And it's not self involved to admit that. It's smart.

So if both sides claimed to be wronged, how do you sort out which it is? I'm dealing with two family parties in an estrangment who vehemently say it's the other side. I feel pulled in both directions. There is no physical abuse allegations, FWIW, just emotional manipulation and verbal slights. They both seem like they've played a part, TBH, but of course one of them must be more wrong. How do I figure it out- please help. SHould I hire a family thereapist to be a mediator?

Anonymous wrote:Having seen via my extended family how damaging estrangement can be, I’m of the opinion that you should only cut off close family members in cases of real abuse (not, they hurt my feelings)/for safety reasons. But this is an unpopular opinion on DCUM.

Almost any relationship has some strife at some point. It’s actually not normal for relationships and life to be stress-free, completely comfortable all the time, etc. So other strategies like setting boundaries, continuing the relationship on your own terms, reducing but not eliminating contact are almost always better than cutting someone out of your life completely.

Often with estrangement the "suffering" shifts. In dysfunctional systems people need a scapegoat and that scapegoat faces decades of pain. When the scapegoat sets boundaries, they are ignored and over time that person moves toward estrangement, the "suffering" shifts. The scapegoat often feels peace and safety, but now those who unleashed suffer without a new target and often they are into keeping up appearances and they suffer from the shame.

So yes, estrangement causes suffering. So does allowing the dysfunction to continue. It's sad that people would prefer the family member targeted suffer rather than have those who cause him or her pain deal with the consequences of their actions. To this poster, if it makes you uncomfortable that the suffering has shifted to the perpetrator, then I encourage you to get help to figure out why you side with those who cause harm. I think you also need to try to better understand what emotional and verbal abuse look like. It's a "they hurt my feelings" a few time. It's far more insidious, manipulative and damaging. Why the need to minimize that form of abuse? Even if you don't think if happened, when you see a friend get divorced and you see how much happier she is, do you criticize her for not continuing to allow her husband to "hurt her feelings" for sport?

Anonymous wrote:OP again. If anything, it's as if MAGA has provided them a new weapon use against me. This behavior has been going on for years, but now it's jacked up with their political views.

Oh please. My maga MIL says nonsense too. Ignore! Who cares. They can prattle on all day, we gossip about it as soon as she leaves, but we would never abandon or our parents or become estranged from them! What a ridiculous thing to go do.

Anonymous wrote:What is there to talk about? And why so often?

You call once a week, and when the conversation gets ugly, you hang-up. You have to go. What's so hard about that?

You meet monthly (if they live close) or several times a year (if further away) for a meal out. You excuse yourself and have to leave if the conversation gets ugly.

This. I don’t understand how your parents’ silly criticisms about your furniture or neighborhood bother you so much.

I personally would do what the PP above suggests. Scale back and keep it simple. Going “no contact” is a social media trend that is incredibly cruel. And all because they poo-pooed your stuff? There is an entire generation of older women who do this; I would not take is personally in the least. My MIL does it. Who cares! They’re old.

You do certain things because you choose to be the kind of person who keeps their parents in their life. You do the mature thing by enforcing boundaries. A once a week call to check-in, and the call lasts only as long as it's polite, is reasonable.

If they are not mentally stable/capable, you seek guardianship.

Anonymous wrote:What is there to talk about? And why so often?

You call once a week, and when the conversation gets ugly, you hang-up. You have to go. What's so hard about that?

You meet monthly (if they live close) or several times a year (if further away) for a meal out. You excuse yourself and have to leave if the conversation gets ugly.

Once a WEEK?! That is way too often to be talking to folks like this. Once a month, maybe.

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Anonymous wrote:They are in their mid-70s, DH and I are in our early 50s, and we've had enough of them. Since the day we got married my parents have been painfully unpleasant to be around. They've been abusive during visits, commenting on our apartments and homes over the years (your dad is an expert and fixing XYZ, look at the horrible craftsmanship, how did you hire someone like this, where are they from!!), badmouthing our neighborhoods (tsk tsk you should have brought a house in our neighborhood, it's the best community in the USA), starting fights over the holidays, miserable phone calls that always culminate in stress and fights and being hung up on, chastising us over not being religious enough, and then pretty much gleeful when DOGE threatened our jobs (lazy feds deserve to be punished for all that fraud, ha!!).

So, we're done. I have one sibling who is very close to them and tolerates a lot of their crap (I think it's the anti-anxiety meds that make it so easy to listen to them without wanting to throw them out of her house), therefore she may be the one handling their healthcare needs when the time comes. I want to be a better person but they sure have earned it from me. Is there any hope? I have to say that the lack of communication with them has brought such peace into my life.

I never regretted NC with my mother and stepfather. The few times they weaseled back in? Regretted that every time. YMMV

This. The peace is wonderful.

This is helpful to me. My recently deceased father hated me with every fiber of his being - constantly referred to me as a fat dumb and lazy loser despite being very successful in a number of endeavors, from top level athletics to academics to career and so on. I did it on my own with no assistance from him or anyone else since age 18. The intense hatred and disgust burned bright throughout his life and it was an immutable condition.

Today is his birthday. Despite his choosing not to have anything to do with me, I always called him on his birthday. I thought it the decent thing to do (I feel foolish now). Most of the time I just reached his voicemail but on the rare occasion he picked up the phone he ripped into me did not delivering my twin brother to him, whom he greatly favored. Of course, my twin brother refused to have anything to do with him, and while wildly successful, was angry and vengeful.

I needed to hear that peace is wonderful. With his death I processed very quickly that my closure was in accepting there was going to be no closure in terms of reconciling why I was hated so much. In an odd way it has all been such a blessing. I had absolute freedom since my late teens and was a few molecules smart enough not to abuse it.

My twin recently passed away too - not an easy loss to digest.

By the way mother was incredibly nice to everyone, She was a lifelong addict though.and I could never really help her. She is at peace now too.

Anonymous wrote:I am dumbfounded that anyone would cut off their parents because of how they said something. How is a comment about a repair job or your neighborhood in any way abusive? Are you that fragile & unstable that you cant just shrug off a remark you dont want to hear
Being irritated is normal. But deciding to banish your parents forever because they are talking in a way that doesn't perfectly align with your arbitrary standards is an ugly power & control play
I imagine they are not trying to destroy you. They could be trying to show that they care about your life or want to be helpful, or maybe they are just trying to start a conversation.
Sad that you cant show a little grace for their flaws. They are only human, just like you

If someone critiques you for 50 years, you think this should go on? Some of these old folks have no self-awareness. You're not special. If you have nothing to contribute except an acid tongue, at some point you'll be cut off. Who wants to listen to this drivel day in and day out? At the end of the day, if you don't bring anything positive with you, people will be relieved not having to deal with you!

I moved my whole life to be closer to my parents. They even recruited my ex husband to work part time for them. He did not need the work; he had skills and it was a favor to them. They got worse and worse. Anything I didn’t like they said it was due to my politics. No they were just awful. I always tried to avoid talking politics to them. My mom can make any event all about HER - a wedding, a funeral. My dad makes people cry wherever he goes. Not just me!

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Anonymous wrote:They are in their mid-70s, DH and I are in our early 50s, and we've had enough of them. Since the day we got married my parents have been painfully unpleasant to be around. They've been abusive during visits, commenting on our apartments and homes over the years (your dad is an expert and fixing XYZ, look at the horrible craftsmanship, how did you hire someone like this, where are they from!!), badmouthing our neighborhoods (tsk tsk you should have brought a house in our neighborhood, it's the best community in the USA), starting fights over the holidays, miserable phone calls that always culminate in stress and fights and being hung up on, chastising us over not being religious enough, and then pretty much gleeful when DOGE threatened our jobs (lazy feds deserve to be punished for all that fraud, ha!!).

So, we're done. I have one sibling who is very close to them and tolerates a lot of their crap (I think it's the anti-anxiety meds that make it so easy to listen to them without wanting to throw them out of her house), therefore she may be the one handling their healthcare needs when the time comes. I want to be a better person but they sure have earned it from me. Is there any hope? I have to say that the lack of communication with them has brought such peace into my life.

I never regretted NC with my mother and stepfather. The few times they weaseled back in? Regretted that every time. YMMV

This. The peace is wonderful.

+1

Be good to your children people or you may find yourself unsuccessfully begging them to visit you from your deathbed. Ask me how I know.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. If anything, it's as if MAGA has provided them a new weapon use against me. This behavior has been going on for years, but now it's jacked up with their political views.

Set firm boundaries and keep them. Immediately end interactions that cross your boundaries. If they want the relationship. they will learn to honor the boundaries. If they don't, they will cut themselves off. Let go of expectations about changing their views or having them be actively supportive.

OP again. If anything, it's as if MAGA has provided them a new weapon use against me. This behavior has been going on for years, but now it's jacked up with their political views.