Congratulations OP, you don’t seem to realize that your symptoms and others are not identical and perhaps just kicking off blankets and going for a jog doesn’t work for everyone. So to answer your question, yes, yes it can be so bad.

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Hear me out please. I get night sweats. I get hot flashes during the day. I can’t sleep though the night. I have facial hair. I have belly fat. I weigh about 10 lbs more lbs more than in my 20s. My hair is naturally grey. I have wrinkles.

Is this really all that bad? Can’t it be a normal part of aging?

I mean. I pluck my facial hair. I run to combat too much weight gain. I get facials. I dye my hair.

But I don’t feel devastated that I’m experiencing symptoms of older age because, well, that’s just life.

When I get night sweats I kick off my blankets. Is that really too much of an inconvenience? I mean when I had babies and they woke me up every 2 hours that was much much worse.

I just don’t really understand all the complaining about menopause?

You’re the one saying other women are just “complaining.” You’re the one talking a lot about appearances (fat, wrinkles, gray hair).

I dunno, all the “acceptance” talk just makes me think women don’t actually value the contributions they make to their family or society or the economy. I don’t think it’s brave. I think it’s borne out of a lack of respect for self and others.

My eyes are going, their function is going/dying ahead of the rest of my body. I don’t think twice about wearing glasses. Why are my ovaries so different from my eyeballs?

Should non symptomatic women take hrt? That’s hard. I’ve been in excellent health my whole life with good diet and love of exercise. But my symptoms were bad enough to scare me even further into giving up alcohol permanently and sugar, changing my job to change my stress levels, and taking the time to try different doses of HRT and educate myself. Will women without symptoms do that extra work? Probably not. And should we be adding hormones to women who are obese, protein deficient, with metabolic disease? Probably yes, but that’s a much harder medical decision for a doc than giving hrt to someone that’s healthy or committed to making life changes to get healthy and be a good candidate for hrt over the long haul.

Am I inspired by your philosophical musings and others desires to be a witch in the woods? Omg no. Grow up now or never and find some non-selfish motivations for what you’re doing (other people, remember?) or else what’s the point of your self-appointed wisdom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed feelings about this. Women shouldn’t be forced to suffer bc it’s normal. But the social expectation that women stay young and hot forever is harmful too—and it’s also reinforced by a lot of the same HRT/med spa marketing forces that are aimed at alleviating real suffering.

In my ideal world, we would make medicine available to women to alleviate their suffering but also accept that, if you’re lucky, you become an old crone.

I resent your conflation of HRT and medspas. I take HRT. I have never had a procedure, an infejection, or anything associated with a medspa. I’ve read abstracts on pubmed and articles and the occasional study as a civilian. I’m not doing anything to fake my age, and I think your kind of post, and OPs, are also harmful. I support anyone who has life-limiting symptoms to talk to a sane and qualified physician.

Do you really believe that no one who advocates for HRT conflates health and beauty/aging issues? If you do, I think you are missing a lot of the marketing and general conversation around HRT.

I’m so f——g sick of people like you maligning women who seek help. Again - my physician is not on Instagram or selling supplements. Neither of us dye our greys or get Botox. Is it ok with you if she stays on top of research and helps women? Thanks so much. You feel free to hall monitor this “conflation” keeping you up at night.

I didn’t malign women who seek help. Sounds like you have a hair trigger and are looking to shut down discussion.

Maybe I’m the only one who got worse starting with menopause?? I didn’t get hot flashes in peri (just the 4 am wake up with night sweats), but once my periods stopped, the hot flashes really ramped up. Day and night. And that’s what made it impossible for me to sleep. They occurred at least every hour (until HRT).

I must have lost the hormonal lottery. My 40s were filled with monthly migraines and very heavy periods. Then at 50 came the hot flashes and terrible sleep. And with that also came the loss of sexual arousal and drive.

It’s been a journey! Def don’t want to give up my HRT, which has made everything so much better.

And I have never had Botox or any sort of cosmetic procedure. The HRT is to eliminate symptoms that were hugely disrupting my life. I went to my doctor, said what was bothering me, and she helped me.

Anonymous wrote:I had a hysterectomy at 41 after having 3 children and adopting a 4th internationally. It was only covered because I'd had an ablation first that failed ... and an IUD that also disappeared because I was basically bleeding out so heavily all the time.

Like a whole box of tampons 2 weeks every month and even having to sit on newspaper on flights. And my in-laws thinking I kept going into the airport bathrooms to "do drugs" ... I was basically just stuffing toilet paper in my black leggings.

My in-laws got fined for rental cars where I bled into the seats.

I think adopting the last child plus my GYN saying I was in the 2% for failed ablation and IUD was what got me approved

I don't know if I've gone through menopause at this point. In my 50s. If going quietly crazy is a symptom then maybe.

Wait, are you saying because you had four kids and the last one was adopted they were like oh you’re probably not going to have any more babies so we will do this procedure?

On social media recently, a woman shared that she was 41 and wanted to get permanent sterilization as she and her husband had decided they were done having children. I believe she had two or three kids. Her doctor’s office wouldn’t let her do it - her doctor said what if you decide to get divorced and meet someone and want more children. She was flabbergasted. She was like even if I go home from this appointment and my husband wants a divorce, after 20 years together, I would probably take a beat before getting out into the dating market? Then it would probably take me a little while to find someone I want to spend the rest of my life with? And then we’d probably want to get to know each other and blend our families before try to have a baby…. In other words, this was likely several years away and the chance of this happening and having a child come out of is slim to none.

Anyway, it just shows the total misogyny that women can deal with trying to get any relief or medical assistance. That doctor just saw her as a baby making machine. It’s infuriating.

It’s two fold - there’s the HRT to manage symptoms of the drop in hormones and there are the long-term benefits (cardiovascular, brain, bone) of HRT. For the first, just like there are women who get their period every 28 days without noticing changes in mental state, food cravings, fatigue and there are other women who experience a range of PMS and PMDD effects, there is a range of how we feel/function during perimenopause and meno.

I had a hysterectomy at 41 after having 3 children and adopting a 4th internationally. It was only covered because I'd had an ablation first that failed ... and an IUD that also disappeared because I was basically bleeding out so heavily all the time.

Like a whole box of tampons 2 weeks every month and even having to sit on newspaper on flights. And my in-laws thinking I kept going into the airport bathrooms to "do drugs" ... I was basically just stuffing toilet paper in my black leggings.

My in-laws got fined for rental cars where I bled into the seats.

I think adopting the last child plus my GYN saying I was in the 2% for failed ablation and IUD was what got me approved

I don't know if I've gone through menopause at this point. In my 50s. If going quietly crazy is a symptom then maybe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed feelings about this. Women shouldn’t be forced to suffer bc it’s normal. But the social expectation that women stay young and hot forever is harmful too—and it’s also reinforced by a lot of the same HRT/med spa marketing forces that are aimed at alleviating real suffering.

In my ideal world, we would make medicine available to women to alleviate their suffering but also accept that, if you’re lucky, you become an old crone.

I resent your conflation of HRT and medspas. I take HRT. I have never had a procedure, an infejection, or anything associated with a medspa. I’ve read abstracts on pubmed and articles and the occasional study as a civilian. I’m not doing anything to fake my age, and I think your kind of post, and OPs, are also harmful. I support anyone who has life-limiting symptoms to talk to a sane and qualified physician.

Do you really believe that no one who advocates for HRT conflates health and beauty/aging issues? If you do, I think you are missing a lot of the marketing and general conversation around HRT.

I’m so f——g sick of people like you maligning women who seek help. Again - my physician is not on Instagram or selling supplements. Neither of us dye our greys or get Botox. Is it ok with you if she stays on top of research and helps women? Thanks so much. You feel free to hall monitor this “conflation” keeping you up at night.

In my normal life, I’m bombarded by influencers and med spas advertising HRT for youth/beauty reasons. When women in their 40s ask questions about gaining weight, influencers/med spa owners and customers will respond with suggestions that they consult XYZ med spa for HRT (not just estrogen/progesterone, but also testosterone). I see this all the time.

Obviously, there are women who suffer who obtain relief from doctors consulting the latest in research. But there are definitely also influencers and entrepreneurs selling women HRT as a cure for getting old. I wholeheartedly support the former and have mixed feelings about the latter.

I get that the two are conflated but I think you have to understand, women who are seeking HRT are at a certain stage in her life. They are in their 40s and yes, they are aging. Smart marketing would be to realize hey, while they are seeking symptom relief why not try to sell them products to keep them looking young too. Does it conflate things, yes, and can it be annoying to those of us who aren’t seeking those things, yes, but it doesn’t mean that there aren’t women who are seeking real solutions to health problems and not just wanting to look young.

Also, we see this all the time in men’s health and we are fine with it. I get bombarded by HIMS ads all the time. You need with your ED? which is an actual medical issue that happens to most aging men which and by the way is totally natural. But while you’re doing it, why not take care of your hair loss, and your weight loss needs.

It’s just marketing to target aging people who might want something else. It doesn’t take away from the health benefits of HRT might have.

I just really hate to be treated like I’m stupid. Like others I am not all interested in the supplements or other things that Mary Claire Haver and other wellness folks are selling, but she is a doctor and she has passed along some really interesting studies on HRT and there is no doubt her podcasts and speaking on panels and things has raised awareness and gotten much needed attention around this issue. So for that, I do appreciate her. But what I don’t need is other women coming along and telling me not to fall for her supplements and anti-aging tactics. I’m actually smart enough to figure that out on my own.

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed feelings about this. Women shouldn’t be forced to suffer bc it’s normal. But the social expectation that women stay young and hot forever is harmful too—and it’s also reinforced by a lot of the same HRT/med spa marketing forces that are aimed at alleviating real suffering.

In my ideal world, we would make medicine available to women to alleviate their suffering but also accept that, if you’re lucky, you become an old crone.

Yes to all this -- well said, PP. I do also think menopause has become a bit of an obsession with some women. I worry about my friends who are so focused on this and on supplements, another aspect of the self-care industrial complex. To be fair, though, I had a relatively easy menopause passage. What helped me most was giving up alcohol. I lost weight, my skin improved and I slept better; all of those things, in turn, helped alleviate the mood swings. Not preaching, just offering my own experience here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed feelings about this. Women shouldn’t be forced to suffer bc it’s normal. But the social expectation that women stay young and hot forever is harmful too—and it’s also reinforced by a lot of the same HRT/med spa marketing forces that are aimed at alleviating real suffering.

In my ideal world, we would make medicine available to women to alleviate their suffering but also accept that, if you’re lucky, you become an old crone.

I resent your conflation of HRT and medspas. I take HRT. I have never had a procedure, an infejection, or anything associated with a medspa. I’ve read abstracts on pubmed and articles and the occasional study as a civilian. I’m not doing anything to fake my age, and I think your kind of post, and OPs, are also harmful. I support anyone who has life-limiting symptoms to talk to a sane and qualified physician.

Do you really believe that no one who advocates for HRT conflates health and beauty/aging issues? If you do, I think you are missing a lot of the marketing and general conversation around HRT.

I’m so f——g sick of people like you maligning women who seek help. Again - my physician is not on Instagram or selling supplements. Neither of us dye our greys or get Botox. Is it ok with you if she stays on top of research and helps women? Thanks so much. You feel free to hall monitor this “conflation” keeping you up at night.

In my normal life, I’m bombarded by influencers and med spas advertising HRT for youth/beauty reasons. When women in their 40s ask questions about gaining weight, influencers/med spa owners and customers will respond with suggestions that they consult XYZ med spa for HRT (not just estrogen/progesterone, but also testosterone). I see this all the time.

Obviously, there are women who suffer who obtain relief from doctors consulting the latest in research. But there are definitely also influencers and entrepreneurs selling women HRT as a cure for getting old. I wholeheartedly support the former and have mixed feelings about the latter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed feelings about this. Women shouldn’t be forced to suffer bc it’s normal. But the social expectation that women stay young and hot forever is harmful too—and it’s also reinforced by a lot of the same HRT/med spa marketing forces that are aimed at alleviating real suffering.

In my ideal world, we would make medicine available to women to alleviate their suffering but also accept that, if you’re lucky, you become an old crone.

I resent your conflation of HRT and medspas. I take HRT. I have never had a procedure, an infejection, or anything associated with a medspa. I’ve read abstracts on pubmed and articles and the occasional study as a civilian. I’m not doing anything to fake my age, and I think your kind of post, and OPs, are also harmful. I support anyone who has life-limiting symptoms to talk to a sane and qualified physician.

Do you really believe that no one who advocates for HRT conflates health and beauty/aging issues? If you do, I think you are missing a lot of the marketing and general conversation around HRT.

I’m so f——g sick of people like you maligning women who seek help. Again - my physician is not on Instagram or selling supplements. Neither of us dye our greys or get Botox. Is it ok with you if she stays on top of research and helps women? Thanks so much. You feel free to hall monitor this “conflation” keeping you up at night.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed feelings about this. Women shouldn’t be forced to suffer bc it’s normal. But the social expectation that women stay young and hot forever is harmful too—and it’s also reinforced by a lot of the same HRT/med spa marketing forces that are aimed at alleviating real suffering.

In my ideal world, we would make medicine available to women to alleviate their suffering but also accept that, if you’re lucky, you become an old crone.

I resent your conflation of HRT and medspas. I take HRT. I have never had a procedure, an infejection, or anything associated with a medspa. I’ve read abstracts on pubmed and articles and the occasional study as a civilian. I’m not doing anything to fake my age, and I think your kind of post, and OPs, are also harmful. I support anyone who has life-limiting symptoms to talk to a sane and qualified physician.

I agree with this. Pretty offensive to assume that all women seeking relief just want to look young again. What I see happening is that women turn to HRT for real relief from symptoms like major depression, anxiety, and insomnia. And then they find, when these things are under control, they actually have the energy to return to their exercise routine, etc.

The only thing that I’ve seen in terms of anti aging is that there’s a fun side effect that if you put a little bit of estrogen cream on your face, it can help your skin a little. But no one is promising a big transformation and let’s face it if that were true we wouldn’t see every celebrity over 35 getting major face lifts.

Vaginal estrogen is pretty magical in that it can actually reverse atrophy and tissue loss. I don’t see that as anti-aging, I just see that as returning to baseline. I really don’t think we were meant to sit around while our vulva disappears and kills us from UTIs, which by the way is a major contributor to mortality in older women.

Some of the things that I’m seeing that is more MedSpa aren’t even having to do with hormones. There are things like creatine and collagen and other supplements. They are often sold by the same people telling HRT, but they’re not HRT.

+1. The “bad” part of menopause is the physical symptoms (which are also part of aging but can be physically harmful, like vaginal atrophy, UTI, prolapse, osteoporosis).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed feelings about this. Women shouldn’t be forced to suffer bc it’s normal. But the social expectation that women stay young and hot forever is harmful too—and it’s also reinforced by a lot of the same HRT/med spa marketing forces that are aimed at alleviating real suffering.

In my ideal world, we would make medicine available to women to alleviate their suffering but also accept that, if you’re lucky, you become an old crone.

I resent your conflation of HRT and medspas. I take HRT. I have never had a procedure, an infejection, or anything associated with a medspa. I’ve read abstracts on pubmed and articles and the occasional study as a civilian. I’m not doing anything to fake my age, and I think your kind of post, and OPs, are also harmful. I support anyone who has life-limiting symptoms to talk to a sane and qualified physician.

Do you really believe that no one who advocates for HRT conflates health and beauty/aging issues? If you do, I think you are missing a lot of the marketing and general conversation around HRT.

Anonymous wrote:I have mixed feelings about this. Women shouldn’t be forced to suffer bc it’s normal. But the social expectation that women stay young and hot forever is harmful too—and it’s also reinforced by a lot of the same HRT/med spa marketing forces that are aimed at alleviating real suffering.

In my ideal world, we would make medicine available to women to alleviate their suffering but also accept that, if you’re lucky, you become an old crone.

NP. Totally agree. Women shouldn’t suffer and I want us to normalize aging.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well I don’t have hot flashes, I’m sleeping mostly ok thanks to magnesium and THC, and I still look ok thanks to skincare. But I’m 49 and it makes my ADHD 1000x worse and I’m so depressed sometimes I get suicidal which I haven’t experienced in 20+ years.

You will have them; it is too early for you to have them. Don't be smug; it is a bad look.

Lady did you not read the part where I want to die? Jesus. My mother didn’t have hot flashes and my 54 year old sister didn’t either. We don’t all. I’d take them over suicidal ideation any day. Whose smug now

PP- I saw that and I think the other person was reading too fast. I was going to jump in but saw that you defended yourself first. How awful to call someone depressed and suicidal "smug". WTH.
I'm sorry that menopause seems to be triggering this in you but it is so true that menopause really is The Change and all kinds of various things bubble up. We have to just keep adjusting and staying alive. Hugs to you. You matter.

Or, more likely, the PP has been a jerk forever. Not just menopause.