[quote=Anonymous]For NCAP-West, the answer had a lot to do with practice times. NCAP owned the vast majority of all Loudoun County lanes and all the other clubs were lane-starved. This changed when the county finally reallocated lanes with the opening of the Ashburn rec center.[/quote]

NCAP and Machine had pretty much the same number of lanes at both Claude Moore and Dulles South. To say that either team left other clubs “lane starved” is ridiculous. Additionally, if teams do have more space here and there, it’s because they have more swimmers and that is how lanes are divided between teams in Loudoun County. [/quote]

Loudoun County was completely broken with how they allocate lanes, once a club has been granted lanes they effectively "own" them as long as they pay their bill. The county does not care how many swimmers are served by each club or per lane. There were times were NCAP would have 6-10 lanes, with 2-3 swimmers per lane while the smaller clubs were sticking 12 swimmers per lane into two lanes. NCAP's business model was to continue to pay for unused lanes with the express purpose of starving other clubs of lanes. Machine could not get enough lanes under this system either. They ended up acquiring a defunct club, SNOW, for the sole purpose of "buying" lanes in Loudoun. The opening of Ashburn was the first time in about 7-10 years that the county has looked at lane usage and reallocated lanes...

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for the suggestions for afternoon options.

Are the afternoon options a true cohort or is the afternoon seen as a doubles practice for the morning groups?

At NCAP-Burke, these practice groups are a true cohort and involve largely afternoon-only practices for the national-level Gold I group, as well as The Silver I and Bronze I groups. Gold I has doubles twice per week and has a morning practice on Saturdays. (Bronze I also has a morning cohort.) You can see the practice times here:
https://www.gomotionapp.com/pvncbf/UserFiles/Image/QuickUpload/schedule-september-june-24-25_042644.pdf

[quote=Anonymous]For NCAP-West, the answer had a lot to do with practice times. NCAP owned the vast majority of all Loudoun County lanes and all the other clubs were lane-starved. This changed when the county finally reallocated lanes with the opening of the Ashburn rec center.[/quote]

NCAP and Machine had pretty much the same number of lanes at both Claude Moore and Dulles South. To say that either team left other clubs “lane starved” is ridiculous. Additionally, if teams do have more space here and there, it’s because they have more swimmers and that is how lanes are divided between teams in Loudoun County. [/quote]

Also, NCAP-DS and NCAP-CM were not NCAP-West, and are now NCAP-Loudoun.

For NCAP-West, the answer had a lot to do with practice times. NCAP owned the vast majority of all Loudoun County lanes and all the other clubs were lane-starved. This changed when the county finally reallocated lanes with the opening of the Ashburn rec center.[/quote]

NCAP and Machine had pretty much the same number of lanes at both Claude Moore and Dulles South. To say that either team left other clubs “lane starved” is ridiculous. Additionally, if teams do have more space here and there, it’s because they have more swimmers and that is how lanes are divided between teams in Loudoun County.

AAC also has afternoon practices for high schoolers.

Thank you for the suggestions for afternoon options.

Are the afternoon options a true cohort or is the afternoon seen as a doubles practice for the morning groups?

York also has afternoon practice M-F for HSers. But it’s at a crappy pool.

Machine parent here - we are very happy with Machine. And they do have an afternoon practice option at Oakmont for high schoolers so not everyone is forced to do 4:30am.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What clubs have afternoon programs for HSers?

Pretty much only the ones that own/control the facility they swim in.

MACH Chesterbrook has evening times that might work depending on your location/schedule, but yeah, ditto what PP said.

Anonymous wrote:What clubs have afternoon programs for HSers?

Pretty much only the ones that own/control the facility they swim in.

Anonymous wrote:What clubs have afternoon programs for HSers?

NCAP Burke and STJ have afternoon practice options for high schoolers.

What clubs have afternoon programs for HSers?

The bigger issue is the people for whom early morning practice doesn’t work acting like it is a crime against humanity to have practice at that time rather than just acknowledging it’s not a good fit for them.

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Anonymous wrote:I know this is totally anecdotal, but I personally know two families who left Machine this year. In their cases, the decisions were driven burnout from early morning practices and their kids were not seeing their efforts pay off in the water.

How old were the swimmers doing morning practices? I am continually shocked at how many teams require 13 year olds and up to practice in the morning (some before 5 am!). It’s so bad for teenage brain development. Why don’t these teams get that?

Um. Get kids to go to bed earlier? Ours are lights out at 8pm for a morning practice at 0430. On some nights, we have them go to bed even earlier.

I just hate this dismissive crappy cop-out response. 4:30am practice means many people are waking up at 3:45 in order to make it there. Just because you turn the lights out doesn't mean you fall asleep when the sun's still up. Turn the lights out at 7:00pm, turn them out at 6:00. If you can't fall asleep until 9:00, you're not getting close to enough sleep -> you're not recovering. Also, people have lives, things to do- projects, jobs, PTA meetings, other sports, volunteer, required volunteer activities that often keep you out until the ungodly hours of 8:30 or 9:00pm, which means 8:00pm bedtime isn't always possible.

Exactly. Families in our area get up at 3:45 to get to the pool. There is no way those kids are getting 8 hours of sleep. No way they are falling asleep by 7:45.

My kids are up at 4:15 for swim and in bed by 745. I am also asleep by 9pm. When you get up this early every day to are also ready for bed early everyday.
FWI I drop them off at swim and head straight to the gym to workout. I have zero issues ever falling asleep "so early"

I think the issue is assuming that because your children fall asleep at 7:45 that everyone can always do that.

Not the PP, but i don't think the PP or anyone else is assuming anything other than that morning practice work for some families and don't work for others; everyone should pick a schedule that works best for them. Speaking from my own personal experience, my 2 kids are out cold by 8pm most nights and I'm usually passed out by 845. And no, its not an assumption - they are out cold.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this is totally anecdotal, but I personally know two families who left Machine this year. In their cases, the decisions were driven burnout from early morning practices and their kids were not seeing their efforts pay off in the water.

How old were the swimmers doing morning practices? I am continually shocked at how many teams require 13 year olds and up to practice in the morning (some before 5 am!). It’s so bad for teenage brain development. Why don’t these teams get that?

Um. Get kids to go to bed earlier? Ours are lights out at 8pm for a morning practice at 0430. On some nights, we have them go to bed even earlier.

I just hate this dismissive crappy cop-out response. 4:30am practice means many people are waking up at 3:45 in order to make it there. Just because you turn the lights out doesn't mean you fall asleep when the sun's still up. Turn the lights out at 7:00pm, turn them out at 6:00. If you can't fall asleep until 9:00, you're not getting close to enough sleep -> you're not recovering. Also, people have lives, things to do- projects, jobs, PTA meetings, other sports, volunteer, required volunteer activities that often keep you out until the ungodly hours of 8:30 or 9:00pm, which means 8:00pm bedtime isn't always possible.

Exactly. Families in our area get up at 3:45 to get to the pool. There is no way those kids are getting 8 hours of sleep. No way they are falling asleep by 7:45.

My kids are up at 4:15 for swim and in bed by 745. I am also asleep by 9pm. When you get up this early every day to are also ready for bed early everyday.
FWI I drop them off at swim and head straight to the gym to workout. I have zero issues ever falling asleep "so early"

I think the issue is assuming that because your children fall asleep at 7:45 that everyone can always do that.