Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any Ivy plus candidate should be in Calc BC by 10th grade. That isn't up for debate. As for classes like English Comp, etc. where one could take classes at the local college, many colleges have age requirements based on the content that will be taught. Much different to accelerate in that respect. However, taking Intro Macro and Micro classes as an 8th grader at the local college will be allowed.

That is ridiculous. Many HS don’t even offer Calculus. I took AB calculus as a HS senior which was the earliest I could possibly take it, and the only calculus offered. And not AP, because my school had no AP classes. I went to an Ivy and majored in a science. The colleges are aware of what limits exist for advanced coursework in most high schools.

Is this true?? I have never heard of calculus not being offered in high school. I know my dad even took it in the 70s in his small town, so did dh in his very small town too. It’s AP Calc and AP calc BC that’s not always offered.

I was in a top high school similar to TJ. We did accelerate everything. I had 4 years of AP history and also took AP art history over the summer. I had AP Spanish and AP Spanish literature (it seemed there was a 3rd option too for bilingual Spanish speakers), AP anthropology and psychology. 2 different AP English courses. You could take all 3 sciences together if you liked, but most kids did physics and chemistry.

Just thinking about my awesome high school makes me a bit sad for my own kids. We had some of the best classroom debates with the kids interested and engaged, and that seems to be completely missing from classes now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some kids have an innate ability with math. And obviously they should be encouraged to challenge themselves. And math is a subject you can’t dumb down. The school districts that are trying to kill math bc “equity” haven’t really succeeded.

But there are also kids that have an innate ability with English and writing. And those kids are getting crushed by the “equity” people.

So math remains a place where talent can shine. And the stellar humanities kids are told to whither and be bored bc the equity administrators can definitely dumb that down to hit their numbers.

I can’t see any differences between the teaching of English and writing in high schools currently and the teaching 30 years ago. There has always been some basic classes, middle level classes and AP classes.

Can you give some samples of how students who are more interested in the humanities are told to whither and be bored?

Uh FCPS’ adaptation of Benchmark. It’s all short reading passages with mostly multiple choice questions (some essay writing) k-6. Used both for AAP (advanced) and gen Ed. I think it gets better in high school and maybe middle school but that’s a long time tobe doing short passage reading.

I was thinking high schools. Our district still uses full books. I can not imagine not having them read books in the early years.

Anonymous wrote:Reading and writing at a sophisticated level requires life experience that children haven't lived long enough to attain.

Wrong. Many children are exceptionally bright and sophisticated in their reading comprehension and are absolutely ready to engage with more sophisticated material. Some kids excel early in math... others excel early in language arts.

Math is the one subject for which teachers struggle to provide differentiation in the classroom without it coming across as punishing the smart kids with extra work. In English or History classes, brighter kids can engage with the materials on a deeper level and have more mature analysis without it turning into more work.

In math, the teachers have to move at the pace of the weakest student, and the only way I've seen teacher provide a challenge is giving extra problems to the top kids in addition to the regular homework that everyone has to do.

Schools haven't come up with a good way to go deeper or provide a higher level class than the standard "honors" level, so they instead accelerate the top kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any Ivy plus candidate should be in Calc BC by 10th grade. That isn't up for debate. As for classes like English Comp, etc. where one could take classes at the local college, many colleges have age requirements based on the content that will be taught. Much different to accelerate in that respect. However, taking Intro Macro and Micro classes as an 8th grader at the local college will be allowed.

This for the truly elite colleges...MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Harvard unhooked, Princeton. Second tier ones this may not be applicable.

i
Completely false. NO one needs to go past calculus in high school for any college, and doing to does not mean you will get in over kids who didn't.

Reading and writing at a sophisticated level requires life experience that children haven't lived long enough to attain.

I agree with PP about the tracking. My kids were all tracked and advanced in math in ES because they were supper bored in the regular math track. But then the track naturally progresses, and there’s not really a way to get off it iit it turns out you aren’t super into math. Because you have to take math 4 years my kid that doesn’t like math is probably going to end up stuck in taking AP calculus, probably BC. I wish there was a way to slow it down when they get a bit older. HS math is like a totally different skill set than ES math — just because you are bored with multiplication in 4th grade doesn’t mean you will love calculus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any Ivy plus candidate should be in Calc BC by 10th grade. That isn't up for debate. As for classes like English Comp, etc. where one could take classes at the local college, many colleges have age requirements based on the content that will be taught. Much different to accelerate in that respect. However, taking Intro Macro and Micro classes as an 8th grader at the local college will be allowed.

That is ridiculous. Many HS don’t even offer Calculus. I took AB calculus as a HS senior which was the earliest I could possibly take it, and the only calculus offered. And not AP, because my school had no AP classes. I went to an Ivy and majored in a science. The colleges are aware of what limits exist for advanced coursework in most high schools.

I think that poster is ridiculous. My kid is a sophomore at any Ivy plus and took BC in 12th grade.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to a private HS.

It’s part of the reason so many private high schools are feeders to the most elite colleges. They focus on the “accelerated humanities” track as well - at a very high-level and a degree of sophistication you would ordinarily find in college level classes.

Colleges want that preparedness and level of intellectual discourse/intellectual vitality. They want you doing humanities-based independent studies in school… Not in a pay-to-play research organization outside of high school… but with a high school teacher on a niche or specialized area of interest in the humanities. With an academic written work product.

Exactly. This is why most magnet schools and similar tend to be very STEM heavy. Teaching advanced humanities classes is a lot harder, and is often done better in smaller classes. It can't easily be mass-produced. It is often best done in privates (though there are obviously plenty of exceptions).

Colleges don't want a class that is 100% kids who took BC calc as sophomores and did science research and whatever else. They want a balanced class. And kids who can think and write critically and adapt to evolving situations.

I am so tired of the mentality from some people that their kid is "smarter" because they took more APs or took BC calc earlier than another kid. First of all, anyone who gets their jollies because they perceive their kid as "smarter" is sick. But also, this is not the sole measure of intellect and ability. But I hear it all the time.

Yep. I made a similar comment on another thread.
DP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math teachers are asking this too. Anyone who tried to take an AP English class as a freshman would be laughed at, but we are pushing AP math to that level. No one would try to skip Spanish 2 and go from 1 to 3, but everyone tries to skip prealgebra and jump to algebra 1 earlier.

I don’t know why we are only accelerating one subject.

I think the opposite is true - some kids are ready for AP English much earlier and could accelerate in language studies too.

DP. I think that was the PP's point. Those kids who are super intelligent and excel at the humanities aren't allowed to take accelerated classes the way one could in math. It's extremely frustrating.

Anonymous wrote:Any Ivy plus candidate should be in Calc BC by 10th grade. That isn't up for debate. As for classes like English Comp, etc. where one could take classes at the local college, many colleges have age requirements based on the content that will be taught. Much different to accelerate in that respect. However, taking Intro Macro and Micro classes as an 8th grader at the local college will be allowed.

This for the truly elite colleges...MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Harvard unhooked, Princeton. Second tier ones this may not be applicable.

Sputnik

Sputnik is the reason, with PRC now in the shoes of the USSR

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some kids have an innate ability with math. And obviously they should be encouraged to challenge themselves. And math is a subject you can’t dumb down. The school districts that are trying to kill math bc “equity” haven’t really succeeded.

But there are also kids that have an innate ability with English and writing. And those kids are getting crushed by the “equity” people.

So math remains a place where talent can shine. And the stellar humanities kids are told to whither and be bored bc the equity administrators can definitely dumb that down to hit their numbers.

I can’t see any differences between the teaching of English and writing in high schools currently and the teaching 30 years ago. There has always been some basic classes, middle level classes and AP classes.

Can you give some samples of how students who are more interested in the humanities are told to whither and be bored?

Uh FCPS’ adaptation of Benchmark. It’s all short reading passages with mostly multiple choice questions (some essay writing) k-6. Used both for AAP (advanced) and gen Ed. I think it gets better in high school and maybe middle school but that’s a long time tobe doing short passage reading.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to a private HS.

It’s part of the reason so many private high schools are feeders to the most elite colleges. They focus on the “accelerated humanities” track as well - at a very high-level and a degree of sophistication you would ordinarily find in college level classes.

Colleges want that preparedness and level of intellectual discourse/intellectual vitality. They want you doing humanities-based independent studies in school… Not in a pay-to-play research organization outside of high school… but with a high school teacher on a niche or specialized area of interest in the humanities. With an academic written work product.

+100

Jesuit & Catholic HSs turn out amazing writers too. Our kids have to write in class too- to do it themselves- and not AI generate.

WSJ just had an article about elite universities turning back to blue books and oral exams as well since kids are only learning to cut and paste and not learning material. I think this going to separate private and public education even more. Big public universities can’t manage that- they don’t have the class sizes-student-prof ratio for it.

Even without the luxury of high tech help students have always found ways to cheat. Students in the top schools are the most likely to cheat.