Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually the parents spend more time on their careers than with the children.

+1

Successful parenting is a job in itself, if both parents have demanding careers it’s very hard to parent well.

Agree. Parents need to spend a lot of time with kids for them to teach their full potential academically, mental health wise and Socially. Intelligence is largely inherited but there could be LDs. The engaged parents is around enough to know their child well and spot early signs of mental health issues or other potential things that can spiral downward.

Engaged parent is NOT the same as permissive parenting- way too much of the latter these days and way too many ways too waste time and screw up, especially if family has money and kids don’t have to make sacrifices and do lots of chores.

Parenting is a full time job and almost impossible to do well if you’re not physically present a good amount of time. It would be impossible to be at the top of one’s field and also be an engaged parent. But I’m glad we have people who pursue excellence in their career. I chose to limit my professional career in order to parent. Still work though.

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I are both extremely anxious overachievers from fairly dysfunctional homes. Our kids have so much anxiety (likely inherited) that it makes it difficult for them to handle life’s stressors. They have struggled socially, academically etc.

I wonder if they would have done better if both my husband and I had sought help for our anxiety earlier. It’s hard to conceptualize of a whole family though where everyone is on antidepressants, Zoloft etc. Sometimes we think of ourselves as kind of a generic cocktail that probably shouldn’t have been mixed.

What makes you an overachiever instead just an achiever? Do you need constantly work for budget reasons?

Have you discussed with their teachers your children’s anxiety and how it’s affected them in school and socially? They have IEPs for kids with issues like anxiety interfering with academics. You should find out.

I know how bad anxiety feels and the earlier you get coping skills the better. My husband and I haven’t given our kids the best genetics either. If you all were helped by Zoloft that would be amazingly great. They probably have school counselors that can assist your kids too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The initial post talks about intelligence a lot, but then the follow up talks about behavior.

Those 2 things have little to do with one another.

+1, and also this whole thread is really about one interaction with one family, from which OP is making all kinds of leaps. Just say "I am disappointed my nice friends have bratty kids."

I have known the family for a decade. It is not one interaction. Our kids go to the same school.

I was appalled at their poor behavior. However, they are also low performers at school. They quit all their sports. They hate their instruments.

Assuming this is elementary…How do you know who is a “low performer” at school? And based upon what criteria exactly? A lot of kids don’t enjoy organized sports or just try out different rec sports at this age (and perhaps don’t return the next season). A lot of kids think practicing instrument is a drag and only do it because their parents make them (raising my own hand on this one…ended up playing in the HS band and enjoying it very much).

The parents probably chose their child’s instrument which was something undesirable like viola or harp. And I bet the parents never play outside games with them like a game they create themselves with a basketball and hoop, or ride bikes together. They probably never go to a park with a soccer ball and climb on playground equipment. Instead they sign them up for an organized sport at a too young age when they’d rather be playing unorganized sports with their family.

If they are trying to mold them into something they’re not they will act out and resent their parents.

Genetic. Not generic

My husband and I are both extremely anxious overachievers from fairly dysfunctional homes. Our kids have so much anxiety (likely inherited) that it makes it difficult for them to handle life’s stressors. They have struggled socially, academically etc.

I wonder if they would have done better if both my husband and I had sought help for our anxiety earlier. It’s hard to conceptualize of a whole family though where everyone is on antidepressants, Zoloft etc. Sometimes we think of ourselves as kind of a generic cocktail that probably shouldn’t have been mixed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The richer the family, the more likely the kids are on screens too much and on social media which sucks the life, intelligence, creativity right out of you. The rich families at our school have dedicated ipads for each kid and at age 10 they get a smartphone. I think it's kind of disgusting.

This isn't true. Statistically lower parental income and education levels correlate with more screen time usage by kids.

https://www.the74million.org/children-from-low-income-less-educated-families-spend-nearly-twice-as-much-time-on-screens/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9107378/

And higher incomes correlate with higher intelligence and better outcomes. People don't want to know how much of life is tied up in the DNA you give your kids. As for successful people with unsuccessful kids, I wonder if some people just don't match well. For instance, I've long thought having a "spark" was nature's way of telling you that the other person is a good match. Well, the opposite could also be true.

Anonymous wrote:The richer the family, the more likely the kids are on screens too much and on social media which sucks the life, intelligence, creativity right out of you. The rich families at our school have dedicated ipads for each kid and at age 10 they get a smartphone. I think it's kind of disgusting.

This isn't true. Statistically lower parental income and education levels correlate with more screen time usage by kids.

https://www.the74million.org/children-from-low-income-less-educated-families-spend-nearly-twice-as-much-time-on-screens/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9107378/

I am convinced that the enrichment / coddling that rich and successful parents give their children sets them back. Genetics might predict IQ, but the best situation might be to hit the genetic lottery and then grow up on a farm with access to a good local library. All of the $$$ and time spent by the DCUM elite is counterproductive past nutrition, sleep, and stable home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually the parents spend more time on their careers than with the children.

this right here. marching around the office, pretending to be a big shot while the family life and kids are left behind.

The Royal Family comes to mind.

Same with the Trumps and Bidens. Parents on some fundamental level should be accountable for how their children turn out. The Clintons, Obamas, and Bushs seemed to do well - they had all girls, maybe just a coincidence. Hunter and Douche Jr. are male obviously.

Clintons only had one kid, Obamas two, and Bushes two. If the parents have demanding careers/lives, it probably helps to limit the number of kids as there is only so much attention you can give them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Oh come on. Hard to believe this is not a huge exaggeration. How old are their kids?

Fighting, screaming, whining, hitting, complaining, being disrespectful 75% of the time. The parents just tune out. It is like they just accepted this poor behavior and don’t know what to do with the children.

I’m surprised how such competent people can be such horrible parents.

These sound like little kids who perhaps were having a bad day. It is very, very early to call them "disasters." When you say "disasters" I thought you meant adult children in prison, not little kids who whine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Winston Churchill's kids were mostly duds. Same with the Vanderbilts. Many descendents of high profile people lose the genetic lottery. Bad parenting can be detrimental too.

I have two amazing female friends who married duds from these types of families. It sounds truly awful to be married to this type of man and then have to deal with their families. Unfortunately, their kids are also duds.

The younger both partners are the more likely it is for wealth and access to be conflated with success and potential, even ambition. As such, I find the situation PP described is far more likely to happen when both parties and especially the woman is younger.

Anonymous wrote:Usually the parents spend more time on their careers than with the children.

it's 100 percent this.

I have many friends in this bucket. Sometimes the moms will step out of work for a couple of years and then the kids performance at school skyrockets, and then they go back into the workforce.

intelligence is so largely inherited, the kids have tons of potential.

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed many parents we know who are superstars in their fields have average/below average children. The kids are not motivated.

I wonder if they were born less intelligent or it is their upbringing.

We just spent the weekend with a family whose parents are some of the most intelligent kind people we know. Their kids are an absolute disaster in every way possible.

Describes my XH and former IL perfectly. Grandparents and parents were exceptional. Kids born in the 50s and 60s reaped all the privileges but are consumers rather than producers.

Usually rich kids get on drugs earlier.

Source: my private school. I was a "poor" and they didn't give that stuff out for free.

Sometimes kids having too much money is not motivational and leads to spending the cash on cheap thrills.

“Successful”, smug parents raise self-important, entitled, misbehaved and annoying snowflakes.

Our neighborhood within walking distance of a vaunted AAP ES is filled with both types.