Anonymous
07/21/2025 14:26
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:does your kids name signal URM? or overrepresented majority?
if it's William Von William the third, go the full pay essay
if you could "pass" as an URM, try that.
(my kids have asian names - we didn't try to signal anything but full pay)
Come on. There are a lot of Chinese immigrants working at Chinese takeouts in New York City. Many Chinese kids do homework at parents shops, and help out.
of course. which is why if you're asian, you dont try to compete in that lane. it's crowded! we moved straight to full pay , even though we're only barely
Ditto. Do not try and bet anything but full pay.
To be poor and Asian, you'd have to fill the Vietnamese or Filipino quota (and there is one) - esp in SoCal and parts of Louisiana (for the former). Ask any AO. They don't treat Indian, Chinese, Korean as interchangeable with Vietnamese or Filipino or Bangladeshi.
Anonymous
07/21/2025 13:46
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:does your kids name signal URM? or overrepresented majority?
if it's William Von William the third, go the full pay essay
if you could "pass" as an URM, try that.
(my kids have asian names - we didn't try to signal anything but full pay)
Come on. There are a lot of Chinese immigrants working at Chinese takeouts in New York City. Many Chinese kids do homework at parents shops, and help out.
of course. which is why if you're asian, you dont try to compete in that lane. it's crowded! we moved straight to full pay , even though we're only barely
Anonymous
07/21/2025 13:08
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:does your kids name signal URM? or overrepresented majority?
if it's William Von William the third, go the full pay essay
if you could "pass" as an URM, try that.
(my kids have asian names - we didn't try to signal anything but full pay)
Come on. There are a lot of Chinese immigrants working at Chinese takeouts in New York City. Many Chinese kids do homework at parents shops, and help out.
That would come out in (1) EC list (family responsibility); (2) essays, and (3) CCO LOR.
Anonymous
07/21/2025 13:04
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:does your kids name signal URM? or overrepresented majority?
if it's William Von William the third, go the full pay essay
if you could "pass" as an URM, try that.
(my kids have asian names - we didn't try to signal anything but full pay)
Come on. There are a lot of Chinese immigrants working at Chinese takeouts in New York City. Many Chinese kids do homework at parents shops, and help out.
Anonymous
07/21/2025 12:16
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
does your kids name signal URM? or overrepresented majority?
if it's William Von William the third, go the full pay essay
if you could "pass" as an URM, try that.
(my kids have asian names - we didn't try to signal anything but full pay)
if it's William Von William the third, go the full pay essay
if you could "pass" as an URM, try that.
(my kids have asian names - we didn't try to signal anything but full pay)
Anonymous
07/21/2025 12:15
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Looking at t20 colleges
We live in nyc and kid attended under-resourced public schools k-8 and then private for HS
She has a few essays in prelim stage. But hard to know what colleges will be looking for. In the past, I would have said the story. And one essay mentions that “distance traveled” in a way that’s organic and appropriate.
The other doesn’t, although it’s interesting and good. We’ll likely be full pay but I’d like to at least throw our css in, just in case things change.
I don’t really know how colleges would know we’re full pay our Neighborhood and schools are mixed. But she could drop some bits to make her some well off.
Which is more compelling these days. Can’t have it both way n
Full pay.
Nothing in your post speaks "bootstraps" in any genuine sense.
she didnt post the essays .. what are you talking about
Anonymous
07/21/2025 12:07
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
For T20, authenticity matters most. Absolutely nothing wrong with being UMC who has tottered between public and private schools. As long as the student is compelling.
There does seem to be a barbell distribution at some schools between wealthy and FGLI. But if that’s not your space, don’t bother pretending one way or another. Just be their genuine self. Selective colleges see 40,000+ apps every year. They’ve seen it all. Be true and things will go better.
There does seem to be a barbell distribution at some schools between wealthy and FGLI. But if that’s not your space, don’t bother pretending one way or another. Just be their genuine self. Selective colleges see 40,000+ apps every year. They’ve seen it all. Be true and things will go better.
Anonymous
07/21/2025 11:57
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:Looking at t20 colleges
We live in nyc and kid attended under-resourced public schools k-8 and then private for HS
She has a few essays in prelim stage. But hard to know what colleges will be looking for. In the past, I would have said the story. And one essay mentions that “distance traveled” in a way that’s organic and appropriate.
The other doesn’t, although it’s interesting and good. We’ll likely be full pay but I’d like to at least throw our css in, just in case things change.
I don’t really know how colleges would know we’re full pay our Neighborhood and schools are mixed. But she could drop some bits to make her some well off.
Which is more compelling these days. Can’t have it both way n
Full pay.
Nothing in your post speaks "bootstraps" in any genuine sense.
Anonymous
07/21/2025 11:49
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Look at see who is slashing budgets, hiring freezes and reducing benefits. Maybe that's a clue as to who will have more financial aid budgetary pressure?
Harvard:
https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2025/07/harvard-hiring-freeze-update
Yale:
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2025/07/01/yale-pauses-hiring-tightens-budget-in-anticipation-of-endowment-tax-hike/
Princeton:
https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-freezes-most-hiring-eisgruber-warns-federal-attacks-higher-ed
Brown:
https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2025/06/brown-extends-staff-hiring-freeze-announces-plans-for-more-drastic-cost-cutting-measures
Northwestern:
https://dailynorthwestern.com/2025/07/15/top-stories/we-were-blindsided-northwestern-insurance-changes-met-with-backlash-faculty-led-petition/
https://dailynorthwestern.com/2025/06/10/lateststories/northwestern-administration-announces-hiring-freeze-academic-permanent-budget-reductions/
Cornell:
https://www.cornellsun.com/article/2025/06/staff-cuts-hiring-restrictions-anticipated-as-university-faces-profound-financial-challenges
https://www.cornellsun.com/article/2025/06/the-one-big-beautiful-bill-threatens-to-tax-cornell-s-endowment-reduce-affordability
Harvard:
https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2025/07/harvard-hiring-freeze-update
Yale:
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2025/07/01/yale-pauses-hiring-tightens-budget-in-anticipation-of-endowment-tax-hike/
Princeton:
https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-freezes-most-hiring-eisgruber-warns-federal-attacks-higher-ed
Brown:
https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2025/06/brown-extends-staff-hiring-freeze-announces-plans-for-more-drastic-cost-cutting-measures
Northwestern:
https://dailynorthwestern.com/2025/07/15/top-stories/we-were-blindsided-northwestern-insurance-changes-met-with-backlash-faculty-led-petition/
https://dailynorthwestern.com/2025/06/10/lateststories/northwestern-administration-announces-hiring-freeze-academic-permanent-budget-reductions/
Cornell:
https://www.cornellsun.com/article/2025/06/staff-cuts-hiring-restrictions-anticipated-as-university-faces-profound-financial-challenges
https://www.cornellsun.com/article/2025/06/the-one-big-beautiful-bill-threatens-to-tax-cornell-s-endowment-reduce-affordability
Anonymous
07/21/2025 11:34
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Today's YCBK talks about how the tax bill (endowment tax, Pell Grant, student loans, college reimbursement, 529 plans, Medicare and overall impact of bill on college admissions) will impact the coming cycle.
In the past, he did discuss an inclination towards full pay (he did say that a few months ago bc of funding cuts).
If you read the transcript, he says out loud who gets hit the hardest by endowment tax:
8% tax:
Harvard
Yale (Yale has said it's expected to have to pay $280 million a year in the first year out of pocket (with increasing amounts ea year)).**
Princeton
Stanford
MIT
** Yale immediately announced a hiring freeze, lower salary increases for faculty and staff and delay of capex
4% tax:
U Richmond
Rice
Duke
Columbia
Emory
Notre Dame
Dartmouth
Vanderbilt
WashU
UPenn and more
1.4% tax (current?):
Brown
Northwestern
UChicago and more
So will the top two categories pivot HARDER to full pay students?
From the podcast:
"At some colleges, the higher endowment tax exceeds the college's total financial aid budget....making it diffiucult for colleges to continue to award very generous financial aid".
"Its not an edowment tax anymore, its a research university tax".
Mark said tuition hikes are inevitable.
Who wins?
Small liberal arts colleges - bc of their successful lobbying efforts (exemption for colleges enrolling less than 3000 tuition paying students). The best experiences at college in the next few years will be at SLACs.
Grinnell went from paying $2.4M under the current tax to now being entirely tax exempt.
Outside HYPSM, it's hardly a hit, a scratch maybe.
Upenn pays 58M, Brown pays 9M next year. Not something significantly enough to make them change institutional priorities. Upenn just announced this year increasing the HHI level for full financial aid students. They will stick to their words for sure.
Anonymous
07/21/2025 11:24
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:Is there a list somewhere of all the schools that fall into the 4% category? My rising junior DC will be chasing merit, and I suspect a number of the schools we’ve been considering may be on that list.
This? Google works.
https://www.aei.org/education/how-much-will-universities-pay-in-endowment-tax/
Anonymous
07/21/2025 11:22
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
I bet Yale (and the others) admit a lot more full-pay REA candidates this year.
Its a whole new world.
Its a whole new world.
Anonymous
07/21/2025 11:17
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Is there a list somewhere of all the schools that fall into the 4% category? My rising junior DC will be chasing merit, and I suspect a number of the schools we’ve been considering may be on that list.
Anonymous
07/21/2025 11:12
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:Today's YCBK talks about how the tax bill (endowment tax, Pell Grant, student loans, college reimbursement, 529 plans, Medicare and overall impact of bill on college admissions) will impact the coming cycle.
In the past, he did discuss an inclination towards full pay (he did say that a few months ago bc of funding cuts).
If you read the transcript, he says out loud who gets hit the hardest by endowment tax:
8% tax:
Harvard
Yale (Yale has said it's expected to have to pay $280 million a year in the first year out of pocket (with increasing amounts ea year)).**
Princeton
Stanford
MIT
** Yale immediately announced a hiring freeze, lower salary increases for faculty and staff and delay of capex
4% tax:
U Richmond
Rice
Duke
Columbia
Emory
Notre Dame
Dartmouth
Vanderbilt
WashU
UPenn and more
1.4% tax (current?):
Brown
Northwestern
UChicago and more
So will the top two categories pivot HARDER to full pay students?
From the podcast:
"At some colleges, the higher endowment tax exceeds the college's total financial aid budget....making it diffiucult for colleges to continue to award very generous financial aid".
"Its not an edowment tax anymore, its a research university tax".
Mark said tuition hikes are inevitable.
Who wins?
Small liberal arts colleges - bc of their successful lobbying efforts (exemption for colleges enrolling less than 3000 tuition paying students). The best experiences at college in the next few years will be at SLACs.
Grinnell went from paying $2.4M under the current tax to now being entirely tax exempt.
Anonymous
07/21/2025 11:09
Subject: Which will matter more - full pay or boot straps story?
Anonymous wrote:These essay topics sound boring and have been done a million times. Does she have any interests to talk about? Any other type of journey?
what essay topics?
OP didn't say the essay topics. she said kid is weighing a couple: one which demonstrates more of a distance traveled story and one that connotes some wealth. and is asking, in 2025, what will colleges want more.
I think for the last 10 years, AOs really liked the distance traveled. especially in the last two cycles when they couldn't look at race and were looking at wealth as a proxy.
This year, I bet we see more leaning into full pay.
If essays were equal in other ways, I'd go for the one that signals some means. if it shows depth of character, academic interest, etc. But that's assumed.
In my apartment building we have such a kid. Kid grew up with addict mom, moved in with aunt for high school.
DCUM is a very suburban vanilla population where all the kids have Invisalign and all the parents are triggered by pronouns. This is not the place for a nuanced discussion about class. They think you're coming for their lax bro kid's spot.