—But also why is this in the Religion forum? It’s a question lobbed at the non-Christian celebrants of Christmas.

Anonymous wrote:Why are you asking this in June? But I'll answer anyway.

I'm ethnically Jewish and I celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday. However, I don't push others to celebrate if they don't want to. The most I'll do is give a gift wrapped in Christmas paper or in a Christmas gift bag.

One reason I celebrate Christmas is because it makes the winter enjoyable. The winter itself is terrible, at least for me. It's freezing, it gets dark early, seasonal affective disorder, etc. Christmas makes the winters pleasurable. I enjoy putting up a tree in my home, looking at decorations and lights, singing along to the Christmas songs that play on the stores radio, listening to orchestral music, caroling, baking cookies, buying and wrapping presents, having Christmas dinner with my family, etc. I don't do the religious stuff, like Jesus or the manger.

Also, did you know that 11 popular Christmas songs were written by Jews? Rudolph The Red Nose Reindeer was written by Johnny Marks, who was Jewish. He also wrote Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree and A Holly Jolly Christmas. Sammy Cahn and Jule Styne wrote Let It Snow. Silver Bells was written by the songwriting duo Ray Evans and Jay Livingston. Both of them were born to Jewish families. In fact, Livingston's original last name was Levison. It’s The Most Wonderful Time of the Year was written by George Wyle and Edward Pola. Here is a full list of the Christmas songs written by my people.

https://www.kveller.com/11-iconic-christmas-songs-that-were-written-by-jews/

<3 Love this! I read an article a while back called something like, “Christmas, the most Jewish holiday.” It resonates!

Anonymous wrote:Want to start a fight about Christmas in June?
Really, OP.

Do you know that cultures who are not remotely Christian celebrate Christmas? My Japanese family in Tokyo does, even though they're Buddhist-Shinto syncretists like most Japanese. Same in Korea. My cousin sends me a Christmas card every year with traditional Japanese backdrops and multiple tiny Santas. Apparently it's a thing over there.

No one is forcing you to do anything, no matter how desperately you want to be a victim.

Ha! Fun. In my neck of the woods in Tokyo, Christmas is for couples to go out on dates and exchange presents, but once we moved to the US, my parents “celebrated” secular Christmas with great gusto. Even down to those weird dolls of the singing people.

That said, I too have never seen or felt much “insistence” on secularizing or celebrating Christmas. But I am in the minority with OP that I feel VERY Grinchy about the expectation that I will straight up lie to my children, for years, in order to conform to social pressure about how Santa Santas.

Why are you asking this in June? But I'll answer anyway.

I'm ethnically Jewish and I celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday. However, I don't push others to celebrate if they don't want to. The most I'll do is give a gift wrapped in Christmas paper or in a Christmas gift bag.

One reason I celebrate Christmas is because it makes the winter enjoyable. The winter itself is terrible, at least for me. It's freezing, it gets dark early, seasonal affective disorder, etc. Christmas makes the winters pleasurable. I enjoy putting up a tree in my home, looking at decorations and lights, singing along to the Christmas songs that play on the stores radio, listening to orchestral music, caroling, baking cookies, buying and wrapping presents, having Christmas dinner with my family, etc. I don't do the religious stuff, like Jesus or the manger.

Also, did you know that 11 popular Christmas songs were written by Jews? Rudolph The Red Nose Reindeer was written by Johnny Marks, who was Jewish. He also wrote Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree and A Holly Jolly Christmas. Sammy Cahn and Jule Styne wrote Let It Snow. Silver Bells was written by the songwriting duo Ray Evans and Jay Livingston. Both of them were born to Jewish families. In fact, Livingston's original last name was Levison. It’s The Most Wonderful Time of the Year was written by George Wyle and Edward Pola. Here is a full list of the Christmas songs written by my people.

https://www.kveller.com/11-iconic-christmas-songs-that-were-written-by-jews/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP if you really want an answer to this question, try asking in those threads. On these threads you'll find:

1. Anti-theists who hate religion and don't really represent cultural Christians at all.

2. Committed believers of various faiths who also don't represent merely cultural Christians (or aren't Christians at all!)

You won't find a person who can honestly answer your question.

You'll also find:

People who want an open discussion forum to be an echo chamber for their particular beliefs and insult and try to squelch all opposing thoughts.

+1. and the echo chamber is generally not found on other forums. For instance, the politics forum includes all points of view. While people of different persuasions may think they're right, they generally don't tell other people to believe that there's only one way to think -- their way.

Anonymous wrote:OP if you really want an answer to this question, try asking in those threads. On these threads you'll find:

1. Anti-theists who hate religion and don't really represent cultural Christians at all.

2. Committed believers of various faiths who also don't represent merely cultural Christians (or aren't Christians at all!)

You won't find a person who can honestly answer your question.

You'll also find:

People who want an open discussion forum to be an echo chamber for their particular beliefs and insult and try to squelch all opposing thoughts.

OP if you really want an answer to this question, try asking in those threads. On these threads you'll find:

1. Anti-theists who hate religion and don't really represent cultural Christians at all.

2. Committed believers of various faiths who also don't represent merely cultural Christians (or aren't Christians at all!)

You won't find a person who can honestly answer your question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back.

I know it's June. School just got out and people are looking ahead at the school calendar for next year. If you've never been part of the obnoxious discussions about school closures on non-Christian holidays, good for you; stay far away from those discussions online and in person. Someone inevitably points out that schools close for two weeks for Christmas (and a week tied to Easter), so a day here and there for Yom Kippur and Diwali is not a big deal. And then the cultural Christians pop out of the woodwork to opine about how everyone can celebrate Christmas, because Santa isn't Christian, so what's the big deal? And by not decorating our house and making cookies for Santa, we're denying our kids the magic of Christmas. Or they admit that it has religious elements, but it's also just a secular American holiday, so anyone who doesn't celebrate it isn't doing the American thing. Those are the people I take issue with. I just don't understand what their goal is.

I have been part of those calendar discussions online and never seen anyone push secular Christmas on people. I have seen people mention it's a federal holiday (true!) and that it's the best time to travel to the global south for people who still have family in various countries across the global south, so many people take 2-3 weeks around that time of year (they do!). Could you chose to do a winter break at a different federal holiday near semester end in February? Maybe. That would cause inconvenience for the people who are used to traveling for Christmas though, while leaving it keeps those people happy and allows for the above 2 needs to be met.

But again - never seen anyone say that just because school is off for 2 weeks you must set up Elf on the Shelf.

I think you misunderstood my point. It's not that people are pushing Christmas because we get two weeks off. There are people (I'm not one of them) who would like to see winter break at the end of the quarter in January and I recognize that that's a ridiculous idea, since so many people travel for the holidays in December. I appreciate traveling at the end of the year. We go visit friends every year and it's a lovely tradition.

Here's what happens:
1. People complain that schools are closed for "random" days in the fall (for Yom Kippur, Diwali, etc).
2. Others point out that closing for a day here or there for minority cultures is not that big a deal, especially when the schools close for two weeks for Christmas and one week for Easter.
3. People come back to defend those long breaks, particularly for Christmas. Those arguments usually fall into a few different camps:
A. So many people celebrate Christmas and travel to be with family that the schools need to close for a long time to accommodate that travel.
B. Christmas is a Federal Holiday, so the schools have to close. I don't think they need to close for two weeks for a Federal holiday (maybe 10 days, just to cover both Christmas and New Years), but fine.
C. The "Christmas is secular" argument, which is what I'm taking issue with in this post. It's ok that you haven't seen it, but it does happen. There was a crazy post (that got deleted) on the antisemitism thread last week about how Jews shouldn't have a problem with celebrating Christmas, because it's not religious anymore and their kids can have Santa. Again, I don't care if cultural Christians want to celebrate secular Christmas. But when somebody identifies themselves as another religion, don't tell them they should still give their kids gifts from Santa, so they don't miss out on the magic of Christmas. Or, a couple weeks ago, someone on the FCPS forum argued that "celebrating Christmas is as American as celebrating the Fourth of July," as if not celebrating Christmas was some failing as an American.

Anonymous wrote:OP back.

I know it's June. School just got out and people are looking ahead at the school calendar for next year. If you've never been part of the obnoxious discussions about school closures on non-Christian holidays, good for you; stay far away from those discussions online and in person. Someone inevitably points out that schools close for two weeks for Christmas (and a week tied to Easter), so a day here and there for Yom Kippur and Diwali is not a big deal. And then the cultural Christians pop out of the woodwork to opine about how everyone can celebrate Christmas, because Santa isn't Christian, so what's the big deal? And by not decorating our house and making cookies for Santa, we're denying our kids the magic of Christmas. Or they admit that it has religious elements, but it's also just a secular American holiday, so anyone who doesn't celebrate it isn't doing the American thing. Those are the people I take issue with. I just don't understand what their goal is.

Jew here. OP, I have never engaged in any discussions about non-Christian holidays in June, nor have I ever had anyone tell me I'm denying my kids any magic at Christmas. I don't see how it's possible for this particular chain of conversation to make its way to the end point you describe (which does sound frustrating) unless you make absolutely no effort to change the subject and/or continue to take each piece in a long series of baits. Feels like you can avoid this whole problem! Very easily!

Anonymous wrote:OP back.

I know it's June. School just got out and people are looking ahead at the school calendar for next year. If you've never been part of the obnoxious discussions about school closures on non-Christian holidays, good for you; stay far away from those discussions online and in person. Someone inevitably points out that schools close for two weeks for Christmas (and a week tied to Easter), so a day here and there for Yom Kippur and Diwali is not a big deal. And then the cultural Christians pop out of the woodwork to opine about how everyone can celebrate Christmas, because Santa isn't Christian, so what's the big deal? And by not decorating our house and making cookies for Santa, we're denying our kids the magic of Christmas. Or they admit that it has religious elements, but it's also just a secular American holiday, so anyone who doesn't celebrate it isn't doing the American thing. Those are the people I take issue with. I just don't understand what their goal is.

I have been part of those calendar discussions online and never seen anyone push secular Christmas on people. I have seen people mention it's a federal holiday (true!) and that it's the best time to travel to the global south for people who still have family in various countries across the global south, so many people take 2-3 weeks around that time of year (they do!). Could you chose to do a winter break at a different federal holiday near semester end in February? Maybe. That would cause inconvenience for the people who are used to traveling for Christmas though, while leaving it keeps those people happy and allows for the above 2 needs to be met.

But again - never seen anyone say that just because school is off for 2 weeks you must set up Elf on the Shelf.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Their goal is to include you in the fun.

What's your goal?

My goal is to not have to justify the fact that my family doesn't celebrate Christmas. Again, I don't begrudge anyone their secular Christmas celebrations. I attend my neighbor's Christmas party and I wish people "Merry Christmas." I feel like that should be enough for people without hearing that I'm depriving my kids of Santa or that I'm misunderstanding the cultural meaning of Christmas if I'm not willing to get a tree. Because it's crazy to have to justify that.

It's hard to imagine that you actually have to justify not getting a tree at Christmas. Please consider that you're just responding to people's surprise that you don't have a tree.

While I decorate for Christmas, I have rarely had a tree -- too much cleaning up afterwards and it's a fire hazard. I don't have pine branches either, for the same reasons.

Anonymous wrote:OP back.

I know it's June. School just got out and people are looking ahead at the school calendar for next year. If you've never been part of the obnoxious discussions about school closures on non-Christian holidays, good for you; stay far away from those discussions online and in person. Someone inevitably points out that schools close for two weeks for Christmas (and a week tied to Easter), so a day here and there for Yom Kippur and Diwali is not a big deal. And then the cultural Christians pop out of the woodwork to opine about how everyone can celebrate Christmas, because Santa isn't Christian, so what's the big deal? And by not decorating our house and making cookies for Santa, we're denying our kids the magic of Christmas. Or they admit that it has religious elements, but it's also just a secular American holiday, so anyone who doesn't celebrate it isn't doing the American thing. Those are the people I take issue with. I just don't understand what their goal is.

Sounds like your issue is actually with Christians?

I do actually think the argument that Christmas is secular used to get around potential first amendment issues is problematic, but it's often Christians using that line of argument.

Your vibes are off-putting just over the internet. Hard to imagine your effect on people in person.

Anonymous wrote:Their goal is to include you in the fun.

What's your goal?

My goal is to not have to justify the fact that my family doesn't celebrate Christmas. Again, I don't begrudge anyone their secular Christmas celebrations. I attend my neighbor's Christmas party and I wish people "Merry Christmas." I feel like that should be enough for people without hearing that I'm depriving my kids of Santa or that I'm misunderstanding the cultural meaning of Christmas if I'm not willing to get a tree. Because it's crazy to have to justify that.

I don't know anyone who does this. If anything, as a secular Christian (I guess you'd call me that- I do attend church on Christmas eve and Easter but just for tradition's sake at this point), I get annoyed when people try to say it's not a religious holiday and that it's normal for other religions to celebrate it. It's not, it's weird.