Anonymous wrote:Therapists focus on feelings because they have no other stills for actually surviving and thriving. Probably these kids need better planning skills or conversation skills or need to move to a lower cost area or need to lower expectations for life but instead these therapists focus on feelings so they can keep people coming back to then with their endless pity parties always telling the client other people could have done more for them. Biggest scheme of the 21st century.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

NP here. I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults, and the "sense of self" part is really key. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid. On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in). One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

OP here. Our neighbor has kid who went to an elite private school, elite ivy, got a job at an extremely competitive company, quit and is now home. The mom is at a loss and seems to be doubting her parenting.

I have 3 kids. My oldest is a complete go getter, has very clear goals and does everything on his own. I am not worried about him at all.

My younger two children are TBD. My daughter is definitely kind of spoiled. Dh and I joke that she needs to marry a guy with a lot of money. I don’t want a man to be the plan for her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

Are you a bot or an eager parent of elementary schoolers?

FYI, there are plenty of people that don’t eat healthy or exercise regularly, or have tons of friends who nevertheless launched very successfully. There are people who weren’t loved, and that’s why they launched super fast - didn’t have a choice.

OTOH, the main thing for launching is to have life skills. Low tolerance for frustration combined with low life skills is usually what lands the kids in their parents’ basement. And then once they are past a certain age, those become major handicaps.

The PP's post is spot on. They are specifically talking about life skills -- they talk about financial literacy, independence, knowing how to take care of yourself physically and socially. Those are life skills. Sure, also cooking and cleaning and driving. But those are easy things to learn compared to knowing how to manage time, manage money, do the things you need to stay reasonably healthy.

Sure, you can "launch" even if you are unhealthy or have no friends. But the likelihood of things go south is very high because what happens if you get laid off, hit a financial crisis, or get sick? You have no skills for getting yourself back on track. This is how kids wind up rebounding. They seem okay but then something goes wrong and they don't know how to deal with it as adults.

I think you are bothered by the first part, about building a sense of self, developing interests, and developing a life path they can follow. But that's important to. People need goals and something to live for. You have to help your kids develop that. Sure, one way to do that would be to just say "you're on your own" and then their goal is "survive" and they will launch really fast. But most parents don't want to do that. They want their kids in their lives, they want their kids to not have to struggle just to survive. And that's the trick. You can do it, but you need to be purposeful about how you raise your kids so that you don't wind up with a college age kid who just doesn't know what they want or where they are going. The advice the PP gave is reasonable for that.

I raised two kids to adulthood this way and it worked for us.

PP. I am a parent of 3, 2 already launched. It’s cute that you think life skills can determine the outcome if your kids get sick. FYI, the only thing that can make or break it is luck - what exactly hit you and whether the family has resources to manage it. No amount of pluck can overcome terminal cancer, although being a quadriplegic is easier when the family can afford to modify the home and hire aides.

A relative’s young adult had a brain aneurysm, out of nowhere. What helped most was the father being a doctor at a major teaching hospital and the mother being able to dedicate herself 24/7 to the kid. Good luck replicating that by teaching skills for getting yourself back on track.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

Are you a bot or an eager parent of elementary schoolers?

FYI, there are plenty of people that don’t eat healthy or exercise regularly, or have tons of friends who nevertheless launched very successfully. There are people who weren’t loved, and that’s why they launched super fast - didn’t have a choice.

OTOH, the main thing for launching is to have life skills. Low tolerance for frustration combined with low life skills is usually what lands the kids in their parents’ basement. And then once they are past a certain age, those become major handicaps.

The PP's post is spot on. They are specifically talking about life skills -- they talk about financial literacy, independence, knowing how to take care of yourself physically and socially. Those are life skills. Sure, also cooking and cleaning and driving. But those are easy things to learn compared to knowing how to manage time, manage money, do the things you need to stay reasonably healthy.

Sure, you can "launch" even if you are unhealthy or have no friends. But the likelihood of things go south is very high because what happens if you get laid off, hit a financial crisis, or get sick? You have no skills for getting yourself back on track. This is how kids wind up rebounding. They seem okay but then something goes wrong and they don't know how to deal with it as adults.

I think you are bothered by the first part, about building a sense of self, developing interests, and developing a life path they can follow. But that's important to. People need goals and something to live for. You have to help your kids develop that. Sure, one way to do that would be to just say "you're on your own" and then their goal is "survive" and they will launch really fast. But most parents don't want to do that. They want their kids in their lives, they want their kids to not have to struggle just to survive. And that's the trick. You can do it, but you need to be purposeful about how you raise your kids so that you don't wind up with a college age kid who just doesn't know what they want or where they are going. The advice the PP gave is reasonable for that.

I raised two kids to adulthood this way and it worked for us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just graduated from college, I was working a professional job and running down K St to waitress at night in order to barely afford a place to live. High school (W school) classmates came in, and were aghast to see me waitressing. They were living at home, going to the country club. It just seemed like they weren't willing to live whatever style of life they could afford on their own. Maybe it would have worried their parents and embarrassed them.

OP here. I am afraid 2 of my 3 children will be like this, especially my daughter. She is used to and likes the finer things in life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

Are you a bot or an eager parent of elementary schoolers?

FYI, there are plenty of people that don’t eat healthy or exercise regularly, or have tons of friends who nevertheless launched very successfully. There are people who weren’t loved, and that’s why they launched super fast - didn’t have a choice.

OTOH, the main thing for launching is to have life skills. Low tolerance for frustration combined with low life skills is usually what lands the kids in their parents’ basement. And then once they are past a certain age, those become major handicaps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

NP here. I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults, and the "sense of self" part is really key. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid. On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in). One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

OP here. Our neighbor has kid who went to an elite private school, elite ivy, got a job at an extremely competitive company, quit and is now home. The mom is at a loss and seems to be doubting her parenting.

I have 3 kids. My oldest is a complete go getter, has very clear goals and does everything on his own. I am not worried about him at all.

My younger two children are TBD. My daughter is definitely kind of spoiled. Dh and I joke that she needs to marry a guy with a lot of money. I don’t want a man to be the plan for her.

MYOB

I’m not sure why people are telling me to MYOB. I am trying to avoid having my kids be lost in adulthood. My son and daughter live very comfortable privileged lives. I am especially worried for my daughter who we have always treated like our little princess.

Anonymous wrote:A lot of people were poor as kids and have income now so they spoil their kids to make up for the past disappointments they felt. They give no thought to the long term damage it’s doing to their kids and seem utterly shocked when their adult child is unmotivated. Take as old as time - bootstraps to bootstraps in 3 generations. Sometimes less.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

NP here. I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults, and the "sense of self" part is really key. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid. On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in). One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

OP here. Our neighbor has kid who went to an elite private school, elite ivy, got a job at an extremely competitive company, quit and is now home. The mom is at a loss and seems to be doubting her parenting.

I have 3 kids. My oldest is a complete go getter, has very clear goals and does everything on his own. I am not worried about him at all.

My younger two children are TBD. My daughter is definitely kind of spoiled. Dh and I joke that she needs to marry a guy with a lot of money. I don’t want a man to be the plan for her.

MYOB

I’m not sure why people are telling me to MYOB. I am trying to avoid having my kids be lost in adulthood. My son and daughter live very comfortable privileged lives. I am especially worried for my daughter who we have always treated like our little princess.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

NP here. I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults, and the "sense of self" part is really key. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid. On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in). One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

OP here. Our neighbor has kid who went to an elite private school, elite ivy, got a job at an extremely competitive company, quit and is now home. The mom is at a loss and seems to be doubting her parenting.

I have 3 kids. My oldest is a complete go getter, has very clear goals and does everything on his own. I am not worried about him at all.

My younger two children are TBD. My daughter is definitely kind of spoiled. Dh and I joke that she needs to marry a guy with a lot of money. I don’t want a man to be the plan for her.

MYOB