Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone can score a 35. A 27, a score in the 85th percentile, doesn't automatically mean there is a diagnosable learning difference. Isn't the average ACT score like a 20? I suppose you could try to get a diagnosis to get extended time, if time allows. However, isn't the time crunch supposed to be part of what makes the test a challenge?

Yeah, I graduated 20 years ago and 27 was considered a very good score. 35 was an out-of-this-world score that only one kid in my 2000-student UMC high school got (me) and I haven't had the career to show for it. I don't see where a 27 ACT is "struggling" unless the scoring has been completely revamped and all the kids are above average now.

THIS

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have twins.
They both do equally well at a rigorous school that is very stingy with As.
One is in harder classes (physics C, multivariate, etc).

The one in the easier classes takes standardized tests extremely well. NO PREP. First try ACT 35. First try SAT 1540/
The one in the harder classes just really struggles with the ACT/SAT. Scores have been 1410 and now 1360. ACT was 27.
He/she has done fine on AP exams (all 5). There is something about the SAT/ACT that he/she cannot perform on.
He/she has done extensive prep (several hours a week doing problems for months).

We're realizing that this kid probably has some sort of undiagnosed learning issue (too late for this now).
He/she can't read at the speed needed for the passages (even the short ones on the digital SAT). Has to read
things 2 and 3 times to focus. Also having issues with the math although it's less clear what.
Where would you go from here?
They're not going to apply to Ivies but we were hoping for reasonably competitive schools.
If not applying test optional, is there some way to do intensive prep?

It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

Sorry OP,

Something isn’t adding up. You have a junior who is so far ahead in math that he/she is taking multivariable calc (and has an A or A-) as a junior AND has taken multiple AP tests and gotten 5s on each but is struggling with SAT/ACT after working with a tutor? This makes no sense. Perhaps you’ve embellished to hide identity?

I’d say it’s test anxiety, but so many things don’t add up that I’m just skeptical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone can score a 35. A 27, a score in the 85th percentile, doesn't automatically mean there is a diagnosable learning difference. Isn't the average ACT score like a 20? I suppose you could try to get a diagnosis to get extended time, if time allows. However, isn't the time crunch supposed to be part of what makes the test a challenge?

Yeah, I graduated 20 years ago and 27 was considered a very good score. 35 was an out-of-this-world score that only one kid in my 2000-student UMC high school got (me) and I haven't had the career to show for it. I don't see where a 27 ACT is "struggling" unless the scoring has been completely revamped and all the kids are above average now.

Anonymous wrote:I have twins.
They both do equally well at a rigorous school that is very stingy with As.
One is in harder classes (physics C, multivariate, etc).

The one in the easier classes takes standardized tests extremely well. NO PREP. First try ACT 35. First try SAT 1540/
The one in the harder classes just really struggles with the ACT/SAT. Scores have been 1410 and now 1360. ACT was 27.
He/she has done fine on AP exams (all 5). There is something about the SAT/ACT that he/she cannot perform on.
He/she has done extensive prep (several hours a week doing problems for months).

We're realizing that this kid probably has some sort of undiagnosed learning issue (too late for this now).
He/she can't read at the speed needed for the passages (even the short ones on the digital SAT). Has to read
things 2 and 3 times to focus. Also having issues with the math although it's less clear what.
Where would you go from here?
They're not going to apply to Ivies but we were hoping for reasonably competitive schools.
If not applying test optional, is there some way to do intensive prep?

It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

Anonymous wrote:It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone can score a 35. A 27, a score in the 85th percentile, doesn't automatically mean there is a diagnosable learning difference. Isn't the average ACT score like a 20? I suppose you could try to get a diagnosis to get extended time, if time allows. However, isn't the time crunch supposed to be part of what makes the test a challenge?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If no improvement after months of tutoring, I would have the kid stop and work with the test scores they have. Three attempts is plenty.

Curious why it is not ok in family dynamics for one kid to be better at school and other to be better in standardized tests? Doesn’t the standardized test kid get to be better at something?

It doesn't come from us. The twins compare themselves with everything. The amount of money they made last summer, the miles they drove when getting their drivers' licenses, the ice cream sandwiches they ate last week...

Twins are an exceedingly interesting dynamic. Their entire world (teachers, friends, neighbors, their pediatrician) compares them to each other constantly. As parents you fight against this from the minute they're born when the nurses make comments on who is longer and who weighs more. The kids internalize this when it's all they hear for years. As parents you spend their entire lives trying to make people see them as individuals.

It's entirely different with our other kids (we have 2 more). They don't compare things to each other or their siblings.

I'm also a twin mom and I am facing a similar discrepancy in testing, even though it's not as big of a discrepancy as yours. I don't know why everyone's saying it's too late to get tested for ADD or anxiety and get special accommodation IF you feel that that's the case here. If not, I think in my shoes I would reach out to a different tutor - there are ones that focus on test anxiety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have twins.
They both do equally well at a rigorous school that is very stingy with As.
One is in harder classes (physics C, multivariate, etc).

The one in the easier classes takes standardized tests extremely well. NO PREP. First try ACT 35. First try SAT 1540/
The one in the harder classes just really struggles with the ACT/SAT. Scores have been 1410 and now 1360. ACT was 27.
He/she has done fine on AP exams (all 5). There is something about the SAT/ACT that he/she cannot perform on.
He/she has done extensive prep (several hours a week doing problems for months).

We're realizing that this kid probably has some sort of undiagnosed learning issue (too late for this now).
He/she can't read at the speed needed for the passages (even the short ones on the digital SAT). Has to read
things 2 and 3 times to focus. Also having issues with the math although it's less clear what.
Where would you go from here?
They're not going to apply to Ivies but we were hoping for reasonably competitive schools.
If not applying test optional, is there some way to do intensive prep?

It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

Don’t do anything other than push the 1540 kid to maximize their course rigor. That kid is not being challenged to their potential by their classes—they either did not put in effort in earlier grades where math tracking is done or the school did not use standardized testing as a part of math tracking or both: but the kid was “missed” as far as placement into the harder courses sibling is in.
The lower scoring kid in MV and PhysicsC now: my guess based on scores is that Physics C has been hard if the school only gives 1/3 As(you said stingy with As). The vast majority of private schools in DCUm and Va have grade distributions giving 1/3 or moreA-/A. Some are more like half As or more. Sounds as though both of your kids have a fair amount of Bs. The 1410 makes perfect sense in that context. 1410 is typically right around top 1/3 of these types of rigorous high schools. How that kid got pushed ahead to MV in 11th grade is a bit concerning because it seems as though that was too far.
You should have standardized testing on the kids from when they got into the school. The 1410 kid has likely always been around 90th%ile which is very bright and if they work very hard they could get a mix of As and Bs in rigorous courses. I would be very surprised if the kid in the lower classes hasn’t always been 98-99%ile just does not work up to their potential or somehow was not selected when the top math group track was formed. That one may have a focus or organizational issue OR just isn’t very motivated by academic challenge. However, they could definitely handle much harder rigor in the HS.

(Yes i have access to various prep school profiles and grade curves across DC and Va and experience in this area regarding psychoEd testing and giftedness and the like)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d schedule a meeting with your school’s teaching and learning center and ask their opinion. Concurrently, I’d schedule meeting with pediatrician to discuss options on a neuropsych… they may be able to call in a favor and get testing scheduled soon.

If all falls into place, and there is a slow processing score, he/she can have accommodations in place for fall testing.

Should everyone do this so that "all falls into place" for everyone to score a 1490/35?

“Falls into place” means if you can get an appointment and get tested.

The second thought was IF there is a processing issue. Not diagnosing … but it’s what I’d be wanting to know.

It’s not unusual for girls to over compensate for years and hit a wall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d schedule a meeting with your school’s teaching and learning center and ask their opinion. Concurrently, I’d schedule meeting with pediatrician to discuss options on a neuropsych… they may be able to call in a favor and get testing scheduled soon.

If all falls into place, and there is a slow processing score, he/she can have accommodations in place for fall testing.

Should everyone do this so that "all falls into place" for everyone to score a 1490/35?

Anonymous wrote:I have twins.
They both do equally well at a rigorous school that is very stingy with As.
One is in harder classes (physics C, multivariate, etc).

The one in the easier classes takes standardized tests extremely well. NO PREP. First try ACT 35. First try SAT 1540/
The one in the harder classes just really struggles with the ACT/SAT. Scores have been 1410 and now 1360. ACT was 27.
He/she has done fine on AP exams (all 5). There is something about the SAT/ACT that he/she cannot perform on.
He/she has done extensive prep (several hours a week doing problems for months).

We're realizing that this kid probably has some sort of undiagnosed learning issue (too late for this now).
He/she can't read at the speed needed for the passages (even the short ones on the digital SAT). Has to read
things 2 and 3 times to focus. Also having issues with the math although it's less clear what.
Where would you go from here?
They're not going to apply to Ivies but we were hoping for reasonably competitive schools.
If not applying test optional, is there some way to do intensive prep?

It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

Anonymous wrote:I’d schedule a meeting with your school’s teaching and learning center and ask their opinion. Concurrently, I’d schedule meeting with pediatrician to discuss options on a neuropsych… they may be able to call in a favor and get testing scheduled soon.

If all falls into place, and there is a slow processing score, he/she can have accommodations in place for fall testing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If no improvement after months of tutoring, I would have the kid stop and work with the test scores they have. Three attempts is plenty.

Curious why it is not ok in family dynamics for one kid to be better at school and other to be better in standardized tests? Doesn’t the standardized test kid get to be better at something?

It doesn't come from us. The twins compare themselves with everything. The amount of money they made last summer, the miles they drove when getting their drivers' licenses, the ice cream sandwiches they ate last week...

Twins are an exceedingly interesting dynamic. Their entire world (teachers, friends, neighbors, their pediatrician) compares them to each other constantly. As parents you fight against this from the minute they're born when the nurses make comments on who is longer and who weighs more. The kids internalize this when it's all they hear for years. As parents you spend their entire lives trying to make people see them as individuals.

It's entirely different with our other kids (we have 2 more). They don't compare things to each other or their siblings.