Anonymous
11/27/2023 00:42
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
I remember a lot of my Jewish friends were considering aligning with evangelical conservatives when Obama was running because they thought he was Muslim. I pointed out that I had never met an evangelical that spent much time supporting jews or having interest in them but they had no interest in listening. I assume the message was clearer after Trump was elected and Charlottesville.
Anonymous
11/26/2023 19:52
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.
It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!
Are the Jews aware of this plan?
As a naive college student, I was briefly a leader in a campus chapter of a national Zionist student organization. I stopped being a Zionist
1. Because I studied Middle East history, and
2. Because I had a long talk with an IDF official who described working closely on political stuff with Christian Evangelicals, completely aware they they thought we Jews would burn in hell after being wiped out in the rapture.
Wait this is confusing, the evangelicals told the IDF official this? Why would an "evangelical" participate in such a self-sabatoging conversation. Or do you think evangelicals think this, and you are surprised, given your assumption, that an IDF offical would work with evangelicals, because you assume the IDF official had the same assumption as you?
Anonymous
11/26/2023 19:45
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Evangelicalism has an anti Semitic end of days scripture about Israel having to belong to the Jews in order for Jesus to come back and then kill all the Jews and others (Muslims?) that don’t accept him as lord and savior ?
It’s to bring the end of days and the Messiah- something like that in the Book of Revelations . Interestingly, There is also an ultra Orthodox Jewish group that also objects to secular Zionism/Israel’s creation because they believe Jews aren’t supposed to be in Israel tilll the Messiah comes. Some settlers even move and justify going to the West Bank with this belief
That they can’t be in Israel until The Messiah comes.
Muslims believe like Christians that Jesus will come back but don’t necessarily say whether the land will Belong to Arabs and Jews although the Quran does sometimes praise and other times criticize the “children of Israel”
OK, I am convinced, we Christian need to hate Jews alongside with you. Thank you for the education.
Anonymous
11/26/2023 19:42
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.
It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!
+1 well summarized. It’s the only reason evangelical Christians are at all interested in what goes on in Israel.
Is this really the only reason though? Don’t you think most of these types of people find Muslims more foreign and less our kind of people than Jews? It’s not strictly true but most people think of Jewish Israeli as basically European. Judeo-Christian culture is a thing. Most of the Bible is the Torah. Christo-Islamic is not. I don’t think the affinity is all about the rapture.
This is very far left, extreme progressive idea to convince people of color in the United States to align with the Palestinian cause. It is faulty however, because middle easterners are considered white, and evangelicals are not thinking about Israelis enough to come to the conclusion that they are European.
Anonymous
11/26/2023 18:48
Subject: Re:Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
I'm no expert on Evangelical Christians, but I think this thread is painting them with a broad brush. I'd guess there is much more variation than is depicted here.
Also I'm Jewish and, while I only know a handful of evangelicals, none has ever tried to convert me. I also don't know any Jewish people who are worried about this Armageddon belief (no idea if it's widespread) or even care.
Also I'm Jewish and, while I only know a handful of evangelicals, none has ever tried to convert me. I also don't know any Jewish people who are worried about this Armageddon belief (no idea if it's widespread) or even care.
Anonymous
11/26/2023 16:58
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.
It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!
Are the Jews aware of this plan?
As a naive college student, I was briefly a leader in a campus chapter of a national Zionist student organization. I stopped being a Zionist
1. Because I studied Middle East history, and
2. Because I had a long talk with an IDF official who described working closely on political stuff with Christian Evangelicals, completely aware they they thought we Jews would burn in hell after being wiped out in the rapture.
So the Christian evangelicals were telling the IDF official they knew Jews were going to burn in hell? How did he react when they told him that? he just said ok or something?
I asked him if he knew they thought we’d burn in hell, and he said something like “Sure, but who cares what those idiots think.” The more concerning thing was him telling me about working with overtly anti-Semitic US political organizations who were big fans of Israel because they thought those were the “good Jews.” He also characterized those people as potentially useful idiots. It was an unbelievably cynical worldview.
Anonymous
11/23/2023 19:38
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
I grew up Lutheran and only a few times heard about the second coming, got involved with church a lot later only after emigrating to the US did I hear it mentioned in a mission conference. They were talking about the end times
Perhaps I am missing something?
Perhaps I am missing something?
Anonymous
11/22/2023 02:52
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.
It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!
Are the Jews aware of this plan?
Lapsed Lutheran here:
My wife grew up conservative Jewish. She was not aware of this until I told her after we got married. It somehow came up in conversation. I think she assumed that Christians who are “really into Israel” are so because of the historical setting. While that is true for more traditional denominations, I had to explain that Evangelicals are their own breed of crazy.
There are rightwing Jews who think they are using the gullible Evangelicals to their own ends. They don’t care what they think, because Evangelicals are suckers.
Do you have any idea how immature and offensive you sound, “lapsed Lutheran?”
NP. why is it offensive?
Anonymous
11/22/2023 02:33
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:And of course, all the Jews burn in the Rapture because they are not worthy to be in the kingdom of god for their betrayal.
good times.
And no one calls out this right wing anti-semitism.
In all fairness, the Evangelicals believe all non-believers, and even some adherents to Christian denominations, will also burn.
True. The "megachurch" type Christian belief system is pretty abhorrent when you peel away the vapid feel good sermons and high production value music.
In what way?
The answer was in the post you quoted. The sentence starts with “In all fairness, the Evangelicals believe…”
Reading is fundamental.
NP
Anonymous
11/22/2023 00:53
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.
It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!
Are the Jews aware of this plan?
As a naive college student, I was briefly a leader in a campus chapter of a national Zionist student organization. I stopped being a Zionist
1. Because I studied Middle East history, and
2. Because I had a long talk with an IDF official who described working closely on political stuff with Christian Evangelicals, completely aware they they thought we Jews would burn in hell after being wiped out in the rapture.
So the Christian evangelicals were telling the IDF official they knew Jews were going to burn in hell? How did he react when they told him that? he just said ok or something?
Anonymous
11/20/2023 16:47
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Jews have to control the historical land of Israel in order for Jesus to return to earth, and then Jesus will destroy the Jews along with any other non-believers.
It’s basically a story of a global holocaust of non-Christians. Good times!
Are the Jews aware of this plan?
As a naive college student, I was briefly a leader in a campus chapter of a national Zionist student organization. I stopped being a Zionist
1. Because I studied Middle East history, and
2. Because I had a long talk with an IDF official who described working closely on political stuff with Christian Evangelicals, completely aware they they thought we Jews would burn in hell after being wiped out in the rapture.
Anonymous
11/16/2023 08:53
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thank you. Is this what’s in the book of revelation verbatim ? Or is this how they interpret it?
You know I’ve tried to wade through Revelations and I just can’t. But that is what is accepted as truth among fundies and evangelicals (many of whom haven’t read the Bible at all). The Jewish people have to be there for the End Times.
The other pillar of this is a passage you will be familiar with, depending on which version of the Bible you grew up with: Genesis 1:26, which basically says that humans are to have dominion over the earth. In the ‘vangie reading, this is taken to mean that we can do whatever we want and it has led to the belief that to bring about the end times, we first have to destroy the earth, which is why they oppose clean air, water, soil, and why they don’t care if every species on the planet except us and the food we need to grow goes extinct.
Christians like that would be a thousand million times happier and better people if they understood what Jesus meant when he said “the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.” It’s here and you can have it if we’re kind and caring. That’s it. That’s what Jesus wanted. Make Heaven happen on earth.
I'm no fan of evangelicals but this is a massive mischaracterization
Anonymous
11/15/2023 16:51
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
I grew up Pentecostal and Jewish people were both revered and pitied. Revered because they are God's chosen people and he'll deal with them in his own way in the end. And you don't want to be the person who talked trash about God's chosen people. Pitied because they have to live a life following silly religious laws and not having the comfort of a personal saviour that died for all of their sins. But not to worry because they'll have one more chance at the Rapture.
I never worried about the Jewish people...I worried waaaaay more about the mark of the beast and being fooled by the charm of the antichrist...that is scary when you are a kid.
I never worried about the Jewish people...I worried waaaaay more about the mark of the beast and being fooled by the charm of the antichrist...that is scary when you are a kid.
Anonymous
11/12/2023 10:26
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m an Arab American Christian and don’t understand the logic behind Christian Zionism. Is it based on the book of revelation - which most Catholic & Orthodox Christians believe it’s more symbolic in nature but Evangelicals seem to interpret it more concretely ?
Is it true that Evangelicals are justifying the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza because Christ’s second coming can only happen if all the Jews come back to Israel?
I’m asking a genuine question as I’m perplexed about all the support Israel gets from Evangelicals Christians in the US, which I have not seen from Christians in any other country.
They’re overwhelmingly white and see Israelis as whiter (closer to white, not identical to them) than the other side. That helps. Of course you would not see that association among Arab Christians that you’re familiar with as their ethnic association cuts the other way.
Most American Evangelicals don’t know any Jewish people in their day to day life.
No one needs to know anyone or anything IRL. Social media algorithms trained to their demographic tell them what to think.
Anonymous
11/12/2023 08:15
Subject: Christian Zionism- please explain it to me
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I’m an Arab American Christian and don’t understand the logic behind Christian Zionism. Is it based on the book of revelation - which most Catholic & Orthodox Christians believe it’s more symbolic in nature but Evangelicals seem to interpret it more concretely ?
Is it true that Evangelicals are justifying the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza because Christ’s second coming can only happen if all the Jews come back to Israel?
I’m asking a genuine question as I’m perplexed about all the support Israel gets from Evangelicals Christians in the US, which I have not seen from Christians in any other country.
They’re overwhelmingly white and see Israelis as whiter (closer to white, not identical to them) than the other side. That helps. Of course you would not see that association among Arab Christians that you’re familiar with as their ethnic association cuts the other way.
Most American Evangelicals don’t know any Jewish people in their day to day life.
And? They can look at Jewish Americans on TV and/or the leaders of Israel and acquire the mindset I described.