Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This data is amazing. Than you. What saddens me as a GDS parent is that they never once shared data like this with us. It was always a game to try to figure out the tone of the college counselor.

"What are my chances at XYZ?"
"Well if it's in your heart, you should apply"

WTF is that supposed to mean. We have no naviance. and they fall back on holistic review blah blah.

All I needed from the office is to tell me and my kid- should they apply to these schools and what's GDS historic record for unhooked kids in that GPA range.

We could never get a straight answer. It was always couched in feel good language.

I know GDS keeps such a list but they just don't share it w/ parents - even when direct questions are asked.

Are Sidwell/Potomac/Albans/NCS any better?

Do you have access to previous students’ acceptance through SCOIR scattergrams? We are at a different school and found them directionally helpful to somewhat gauge reasonability of consideration.

GDS does not allow students or families access to SCOIR scattergrams. CCO is not at all forthcoming with statistics, which severely erodes trust in the CCO. I do not understand how the CCO fails to grasp this. Transparency breeds trust.

GDS process has been entirely - i mean entirely - lacking any data/stats. ZERO. They share no data w/ parents or kids.

We were not happy with GDS college counseling this year.
My son got into his first choice ED (not an ivy) but no thanks to his college counselor who tried to dissuade him from applying to his first choice school.
My suggestion is to hire a private counselor like so many folks at GDS do

I totally agree. GDS parent here. Similar situation but kid did not apply ED. the counselor was just so far off the mark. I've heard from my kid that the kids all know that there is GREAT variability in the office. If you get the head of the office, at least she is capable. There's two others who are decent. And then there are two who are awful - by awful i mean unreachable for weeks. Off on school overnight trips as chaperones during peak application season or being grade dean - also a full time job.

What I also learned - GDS pays very very low wages to the CO staff. like way low. So they all need to supplement income by taking o these other side jobs at school which include overnoght trip chaperone w. the debate and other teams or being grade dean. Those jobs take up huge swaths of time.

I'm guessing way more than half - maybe 65% hire outside counselors. Problem is outside dont have enough sample size or data to know whether kids last 3 years from our school have gotten into certain colleges.

That said, our outside person was a great resource for kid to keep process organized. We also had an outside essay reader (as quite a few GDS families had) because the person GDS has for that read my kid's essay and said "looks good" - like no other comments. When I heard that I flipped out (because it needed a deep read). Kid said he heard the reader who GDS hired say in the office one day "if i have to read another of these student essays, I'll jump put a window"

I mean jesus christ. Then they promoted this person cycle in the fall to take on some kids as a full counselor because the other counselors were so stretched.

The office has been a litany of bad process, no data, and entire ack of transparency. They do these periodic morning parent zooms where they smile through non-answers.

I found them utterly worthless. Nice people who are all utterly worthless. Perhaps with the exception of the head of the office - but she must not believe in data so I'm not sure I should even be generous with her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This data is amazing. Than you. What saddens me as a GDS parent is that they never once shared data like this with us. It was always a game to try to figure out the tone of the college counselor.

"What are my chances at XYZ?"
"Well if it's in your heart, you should apply"

WTF is that supposed to mean. We have no naviance. and they fall back on holistic review blah blah.

All I needed from the office is to tell me and my kid- should they apply to these schools and what's GDS historic record for unhooked kids in that GPA range.

We could never get a straight answer. It was always couched in feel good language.

I know GDS keeps such a list but they just don't share it w/ parents - even when direct questions are asked.

Are Sidwell/Potomac/Albans/NCS any better?

Do you have access to previous students’ acceptance through SCOIR scattergrams? We are at a different school and found them directionally helpful to somewhat gauge reasonability of consideration.

GDS does not allow students or families access to SCOIR scattergrams. CCO is not at all forthcoming with statistics, which severely erodes trust in the CCO. I do not understand how the CCO fails to grasp this. Transparency breeds trust.

GDS process has been entirely - i mean entirely - lacking any data/stats. ZERO. They share no data w/ parents or kids.

We were not happy with GDS college counseling this year.
My son got into his first choice ED (not an ivy) but no thanks to his college counselor who tried to dissuade him from applying to his first choice school.
My suggestion is to hire a private counselor like so many folks at GDS do

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t think we really know the unhooked number from HW. They took out athletes and legacy (and I am sort of suspect on the legacy… I can’t believe there is not more legacy at HW). It is easy to back out athletes at DC schools.

They would argue their NYU is like 11 boys to Chicago from STA. I am not saying HW is unimpressive just that there isn’t that big a difference compared to Sidwell/GDS and Cathedral schools.

But HW also has huge numbers to Chicago, and they appear to be kids one tier below the top kids (based on GPA).

Most of the STA kids are one tier below top GPA too, some even far below (though I have no doubt these kids can handle the college work). My point is more that you are splitting hairs and getting into the weeds doesn’t serve a lot of purpose bc sample sizes are so small. HW acceptances fairly on par with DC privates.

Sample sizes are not small. It's couple hundred kids per class for 3 classes and including a post-test optional class of 2021 (and 2020, I suppose). Ye are the grading scales different between HW and DC...perhaps. But not that different. Here's the newslash....our kids from GDS/Potomac/Sidwell/Albans are being ranked not just against DMV kids but nationally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This data is amazing. Than you. What saddens me as a GDS parent is that they never once shared data like this with us. It was always a game to try to figure out the tone of the college counselor.

"What are my chances at XYZ?"
"Well if it's in your heart, you should apply"

WTF is that supposed to mean. We have no naviance. and they fall back on holistic review blah blah.

All I needed from the office is to tell me and my kid- should they apply to these schools and what's GDS historic record for unhooked kids in that GPA range.

We could never get a straight answer. It was always couched in feel good language.

I know GDS keeps such a list but they just don't share it w/ parents - even when direct questions are asked.

Are Sidwell/Potomac/Albans/NCS any better?

Do you have access to previous students’ acceptance through SCOIR scattergrams? We are at a different school and found them directionally helpful to somewhat gauge reasonability of consideration.

GDS does not allow students or families access to SCOIR scattergrams. CCO is not at all forthcoming with statistics, which severely erodes trust in the CCO. I do not understand how the CCO fails to grasp this. Transparency breeds trust.

GDS process has been entirely - i mean entirely - lacking any data/stats. ZERO. They share no data w/ parents or kids.

GDS senior parent here. Entirely concur with this.

I’m tired of complaining here and quietly to other parent friends.

I’m going to go meet with CCO head. And if she just grin-f*cks me (yes that’s a technical GDS administrator vibe), it’s off to Russell and head of High school.

Many senior parents have been frustrated with the office and it’s lack of data. It’s complete garbage. The results are not the issue. ED has been pretty good to GDS this year. The issue is the lack of numerical guidance on two distinct fronts - recent historical acceptance rate by GPA and # of current year kids applying to a school. All of this in light of capping kids at 10 schools. And inflexible in raising the cap outside of UCs

Took weeks of cajoling to get CCO to tell us a particular socal private college was sky high popular this year. And even then, it was oblique, not grounded in facts and wink wink.

I just don’t get how parents think this is adequate. None of our peer schools act like this.

Anonymous wrote:Have you guys seen this?
It's the matriculation data for unhooked kids from Harvard Westlake.
It's REALLY interesting.

https://students.hw.com/Portals/44/completehandbook2023.pdf

A couple of thoughts:
--Their GPAs seem to be a touch higher than those at DC privates. Many kids are applying with above a 3.8. Very few are applying with below a 3.4. Our DC private has almost no kids with a 3.8+

That said, the Ivies have a pretty strict GPA cut-off of about 3.8. Still lots of lower kids trying to apply without luck. I can totally see this at our private "my kid is special! they can get into an Ivy with a 3.6!!" Um. NO
Other schools like NYU, Georgetown, Tufts seem to love HW kids.

What are you considering a 3.8 to be equivalent to? Seems like an A- or low 90s. That’s not that unusual is it?

Anonymous wrote:

I don’t think we really know the unhooked number from HW. They took out athletes and legacy (and I am sort of suspect on the legacy… I can’t believe there is not more legacy at HW). It is easy to back out athletes at DC schools.

They would argue their NYU is like 11 boys to Chicago from STA. I am not saying HW is unimpressive just that there isn’t that big a difference compared to Sidwell/GDS and Cathedral schools.

But HW also has huge numbers to Chicago, and they appear to be kids one tier below the top kids (based on GPA).

Most of the STA kids are one tier below top GPA too, some even far below (though I have no doubt these kids can handle the college work). My point is more that you are splitting hairs and getting into the weeds doesn’t serve a lot of purpose bc sample sizes are so small. HW acceptances fairly on par with DC privates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This data is amazing. Than you. What saddens me as a GDS parent is that they never once shared data like this with us. It was always a game to try to figure out the tone of the college counselor.

"What are my chances at XYZ?"
"Well if it's in your heart, you should apply"

WTF is that supposed to mean. We have no naviance. and they fall back on holistic review blah blah.

All I needed from the office is to tell me and my kid- should they apply to these schools and what's GDS historic record for unhooked kids in that GPA range.

We could never get a straight answer. It was always couched in feel good language.

I know GDS keeps such a list but they just don't share it w/ parents - even when direct questions are asked.

Are Sidwell/Potomac/Albans/NCS any better?

+1 on GDS lacking specifics. Couldn't GDS aggregate the data from the last 5 years for any school where more than 10 student applied? I want to see numbers, statistics, and specifics. I can't believe the amount of time that was wasted at the junior parents evening where they told parents this was a student guided process. First of all, that's baloney--everything from finances to visiting schools is done in concert with parents, obviously. Second, the lack of detailed information makes the CCO office seem unprofessional. Don't they crunch numbers? Don't they have insights about trends that GDS students can use to inform their choices? The lack of guidance has been really disappointing. I could go anywhere for generalized info. The GDS office needs to provide information specific to GDS--how do kids with certain SAT scores do? How well does GDS fare with SLACs vs large state universities? What is the statistical advantage to applying ED? GDS parents are a smart bunch, we understand that these numbers are no guarantee, but the GDS CCO would endear itself to parents if it provided useful content to parents that was specific to GDS applicants.

If GDS provided data like this, how many parents would reconsider their tuition "investment"?

Parents are reconsidering their tuition investment because there is so little data. At least with info like HW, St. Albans, and other peer schools, it would seem like the CCO was actually providing data-backed guidance. Right now, the vibe is "we don't want to give info because we think parents are going to raise a stink." Also, when you have a third to a half of GDS families hiring outside college counselors, many are already reconsidering their tuition "investment."

I don’t think we really know the unhooked number from HW. They took out athletes and legacy (and I am sort of suspect on the legacy… I can’t believe there is not more legacy at HW). It is easy to back out athletes at DC schools.

They would argue their NYU is like 11 boys to Chicago from STA. I am not saying HW is unimpressive just that there isn’t that big a difference compared to Sidwell/GDS and Cathedral schools.

But HW also has huge numbers to Chicago, and they appear to be kids one tier below the top kids (based on GPA).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This data is amazing. Than you. What saddens me as a GDS parent is that they never once shared data like this with us. It was always a game to try to figure out the tone of the college counselor.

"What are my chances at XYZ?"
"Well if it's in your heart, you should apply"

WTF is that supposed to mean. We have no naviance. and they fall back on holistic review blah blah.

All I needed from the office is to tell me and my kid- should they apply to these schools and what's GDS historic record for unhooked kids in that GPA range.

We could never get a straight answer. It was always couched in feel good language.

I know GDS keeps such a list but they just don't share it w/ parents - even when direct questions are asked.

Are Sidwell/Potomac/Albans/NCS any better?

Do you have access to previous students’ acceptance through SCOIR scattergrams? We are at a different school and found them directionally helpful to somewhat gauge reasonability of consideration.

GDS does not allow students or families access to SCOIR scattergrams. CCO is not at all forthcoming with statistics, which severely erodes trust in the CCO. I do not understand how the CCO fails to grasp this. Transparency breeds trust.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This data is amazing. Than you. What saddens me as a GDS parent is that they never once shared data like this with us. It was always a game to try to figure out the tone of the college counselor.

"What are my chances at XYZ?"
"Well if it's in your heart, you should apply"

WTF is that supposed to mean. We have no naviance. and they fall back on holistic review blah blah.

All I needed from the office is to tell me and my kid- should they apply to these schools and what's GDS historic record for unhooked kids in that GPA range.

We could never get a straight answer. It was always couched in feel good language.

I know GDS keeps such a list but they just don't share it w/ parents - even when direct questions are asked.

Are Sidwell/Potomac/Albans/NCS any better?

+1 on GDS lacking specifics. Couldn't GDS aggregate the data from the last 5 years for any school where more than 10 student applied? I want to see numbers, statistics, and specifics. I can't believe the amount of time that was wasted at the junior parents evening where they told parents this was a student guided process. First of all, that's baloney--everything from finances to visiting schools is done in concert with parents, obviously. Second, the lack of detailed information makes the CCO office seem unprofessional. Don't they crunch numbers? Don't they have insights about trends that GDS students can use to inform their choices? The lack of guidance has been really disappointing. I could go anywhere for generalized info. The GDS office needs to provide information specific to GDS--how do kids with certain SAT scores do? How well does GDS fare with SLACs vs large state universities? What is the statistical advantage to applying ED? GDS parents are a smart bunch, we understand that these numbers are no guarantee, but the GDS CCO would endear itself to parents if it provided useful content to parents that was specific to GDS applicants.

If GDS provided data like this, how many parents would reconsider their tuition "investment"?

Anonymous wrote:This data is amazing. Than you. What saddens me as a GDS parent is that they never once shared data like this with us. It was always a game to try to figure out the tone of the college counselor.

"What are my chances at XYZ?"
"Well if it's in your heart, you should apply"

WTF is that supposed to mean. We have no naviance. and they fall back on holistic review blah blah.

All I needed from the office is to tell me and my kid- should they apply to these schools and what's GDS historic record for unhooked kids in that GPA range.

We could never get a straight answer. It was always couched in feel good language.

I know GDS keeps such a list but they just don't share it w/ parents - even when direct questions are asked.

Are Sidwell/Potomac/Albans/NCS any better?

Do you have access to previous students’ acceptance through SCOIR scattergrams? We are at a different school and found them directionally helpful to somewhat gauge reasonability of consideration.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah that list is interesting - with the exception of NYU there doesn't seem to be any huge advantage to HW. Really shocked that 26 applications to UNC netted 0 acceptances - what's going on there?? Or Stanford, wouldn't you think they'd have more than 7 acceptances out of 86 applications? Same with UVA, Princeton, MIT, Harvard - these numbers don't look out of line with what you'd expect from any HS.

I agree that list is not any better than well-regarded DC privates.

Except for the huge NYU cohort

And other schools, such as UNC as mentioned upthread, DC private kids do better. I would still argue, as a whole, those lists are pretty on par with the most well regarded DC privates.

But you don’t know the unhooked numbers for DC privates. So you are comparing a list of unhooked HW to a whole class for the DC privates. I do not know how you can’t say that at all.

It is a credit to HW that they get so many unhooked kids into NYU, though. That I agree with.

You're also looking at acceptances vs. matriculations.

Anonymous wrote:This data is amazing. Than you. What saddens me as a GDS parent is that they never once shared data like this with us. It was always a game to try to figure out the tone of the college counselor.

"What are my chances at XYZ?"
"Well if it's in your heart, you should apply"

WTF is that supposed to mean. We have no naviance. and they fall back on holistic review blah blah.

All I needed from the office is to tell me and my kid- should they apply to these schools and what's GDS historic record for unhooked kids in that GPA range.

We could never get a straight answer. It was always couched in feel good language.

I know GDS keeps such a list but they just don't share it w/ parents - even when direct questions are asked.

Are Sidwell/Potomac/Albans/NCS any better?

+1 on GDS lacking specifics. Couldn't GDS aggregate the data from the last 5 years for any school where more than 10 student applied? I want to see numbers, statistics, and specifics. I can't believe the amount of time that was wasted at the junior parents evening where they told parents this was a student guided process. First of all, that's baloney--everything from finances to visiting schools is done in concert with parents, obviously. Second, the lack of detailed information makes the CCO office seem unprofessional. Don't they crunch numbers? Don't they have insights about trends that GDS students can use to inform their choices? The lack of guidance has been really disappointing. I could go anywhere for generalized info. The GDS office needs to provide information specific to GDS--how do kids with certain SAT scores do? How well does GDS fare with SLACs vs large state universities? What is the statistical advantage to applying ED? GDS parents are a smart bunch, we understand that these numbers are no guarantee, but the GDS CCO would endear itself to parents if it provided useful content to parents that was specific to GDS applicants.

Anonymous wrote:Generally, rich kids do fine OP, even if they are mediocre students or people

HW is really rigorous academically—definitely comparable to the DC big 3.