Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 22:41     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I remember reading the post a while back that showed Blair's SAT average was 50 points higher for the largest common cohort to it and any W in order to isolate for demographic differences and gauge the school's actual value. Some people argued but the magnet responsible which was ridiculous because it's a small program in a large school that's also mostly Asian. These silly posts that are based on outdated notions from 30 years ago are mostly laughable.
I believe these were the SAT scores for the largest cohort common to each of these high-schools

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wootton 1262
Churchill 1257

The data was published by the county here.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf


This makes a lot more sense than just dumping raw data.

The smartest white kids means it’s the best school? I cannot imagine anything more racist and classist than that, considering 90% of Blair kids are from rich liberal families in Takoma Park. I know a few of them myself.


It’s pretty funny to read this thread and watch TP parents tie themselves in logic knots to reassure themselves that Blair is the ever-most-specialist.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 22:31     Subject: Re:Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:
Do the “special ed” students at WJ include the GT/LD kids? If so, then it might be a false assumption that they are bringing down the average.


The source data document did not define "Special Education" but the context the document used was "Special Education or LEP" which tends to indicate that GT/LD was not included? Again, can't say definitively, only in context.

I think the point is that any broad brush approach is inherently flawed. It's more nuanced.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 22:10     Subject: Re:Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Do the “special ed” students at WJ include the GT/LD kids? If so, then it might be a false assumption that they are bringing down the average.


The source data document did not define "Special Education" but the context the document used was "Special Education or LEP" which tends to indicate that GT/LD was not included? Again, can't say definitively, only in context.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 22:05     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I remember reading the post a while back that showed Blair's SAT average was 50 points higher for the largest common cohort to it and any W in order to isolate for demographic differences and gauge the school's actual value. Some people argued but the magnet responsible which was ridiculous because it's a small program in a large school that's also mostly Asian. These silly posts that are based on outdated notions from 30 years ago are mostly laughable.
I believe these were the SAT scores for the largest cohort common to each of these high-schools

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wootton 1262
Churchill 1257

The data was published by the county here.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf


This makes a lot more sense than just dumping raw data.


I don't think you get it. This portion of the thread is an analysis of Caucasion / White students at Blair - but even then was not #1, it was #5 when you added non-White student categories.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 22:05     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Some of these comments make no sense.

Blair wasn't on top of the list. The data about Blair on the top of SATs were for White (aka. CAUCASIAN) students from table A.8, so it is very interesting that someone only thinks in those terms? Even then Blair Whites were not top of the list. They were actually fifth.

#1 Poolesville - Asian 1420
#2 Poolesville - Black or African American 1380
#3 BCC - Two or More Races 1341
#4 Walt Whitman - Two or More Races 1334
#5 Montgomery Blair - Whites 1326

The "Percent of Students Meeting University System of Maryland Entrance Requirements" were not who actually got into college (which is normally a lower percentage), but who were qualified to go to college. Big difference and it's a much better indicator of whether the student body as a whole is college ready and whether the HS did right by the students.

11.2% of the student body are Special Ed at WJ.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04424.pdf
What we don't know is what percentage of Spec Ed students did or did not meet UofMd admission requirements.

Besides, several HS have programs. QO, Churchill, Wootton are successful. WJ (Asperger), Kennedy (Autism Resource), Magruder (Autism), QO (Aspergers), Rockville (Autism), Churchill (Autism), Watkins Mill (Autism Resource), Wootton (Autism)

For example:

Churchill has 10% SpecEd
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04602.pdf

Quince Orchard 9.5% SpecEd
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04125.pdf

Blair 7.7% SpecEd
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf


Some special ed kids have greater needs than others.


Absolutely correct. But someone was implying that the SpecEd programs lowered the school averages. I can't say if that's true or not based on this data, since it wasn't granular enough. However...

According to Table A.3, <5% of MCPS students were categorized as SpecEd (252 students) and even took the SAT in 2017. Their average score was 960. Table A9 shows how those students were distributed across all high schools [although there is a data anomaly where it says 274 SpecEd students took the SAT versus the 252 reported in table A.3]. 21 were from WJ. The average should have been 274 SpecEd Students taking the SAT / 25 High Schools ~= 11. WJ did have 10 more than the average. Now, would those 10 SpecEd scores really have changed the overall SAT averages to make a ranking difference?

Do the “special ed” students at WJ include the GT/LD kids? If so, then it might be a false assumption that they are bringing down the average.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 22:02     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I remember reading the post a while back that showed Blair's SAT average was 50 points higher for the largest common cohort to it and any W in order to isolate for demographic differences and gauge the school's actual value. Some people argued but the magnet responsible which was ridiculous because it's a small program in a large school that's also mostly Asian. These silly posts that are based on outdated notions from 30 years ago are mostly laughable.
I believe these were the SAT scores for the largest cohort common to each of these high-schools

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wootton 1262
Churchill 1257

The data was published by the county here.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf


This makes a lot more sense than just dumping raw data.

The smartest white kids means it’s the best school? I cannot imagine anything more racist and classist than that, considering 90% of Blair kids are from rich liberal families in Takoma Park. I know a few of them myself.

Yup. To me, the best schools are the schools where Black and Hispanic students perform the best. So the top 4 are Poolesville, Whitman, Churchill and BCC. Black and Hispanic students at Blair perform worse than Northwest, Sherwood and Watkins Mill which says a lot about Blair. That’s a lot of inequality in one school and it’s hard to understand how white kids are getting taught so well while Black and Brown kids are not.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 21:59     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Some of these comments make no sense.

Blair wasn't on top of the list. The data about Blair on the top of SATs were for White (aka. CAUCASIAN) students from table A.8, so it is very interesting that someone only thinks in those terms? Even then Blair Whites were not top of the list. They were actually fifth.

#1 Poolesville - Asian 1420
#2 Poolesville - Black or African American 1380
#3 BCC - Two or More Races 1341
#4 Walt Whitman - Two or More Races 1334
#5 Montgomery Blair - Whites 1326

The "Percent of Students Meeting University System of Maryland Entrance Requirements" were not who actually got into college (which is normally a lower percentage), but who were qualified to go to college. Big difference and it's a much better indicator of whether the student body as a whole is college ready and whether the HS did right by the students.

11.2% of the student body are Special Ed at WJ.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04424.pdf
What we don't know is what percentage of Spec Ed students did or did not meet UofMd admission requirements.

Besides, several HS have programs. QO, Churchill, Wootton are successful. WJ (Asperger), Kennedy (Autism Resource), Magruder (Autism), QO (Aspergers), Rockville (Autism), Churchill (Autism), Watkins Mill (Autism Resource), Wootton (Autism)

For example:

Churchill has 10% SpecEd
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04602.pdf

Quince Orchard 9.5% SpecEd
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04125.pdf

Blair 7.7% SpecEd
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf


Some special ed kids have greater needs than others.


Absolutely correct. But someone was implying that the SpecEd programs lowered the school averages. I can't say if that's true or not based on this data, since it wasn't granular enough. However...

According to Table A.3, <5% of MCPS students were categorized as SpecEd (252 students) and even took the SAT in 2017. Their average score was 960. Table A9 shows how those students were distributed across all high schools [although there is a data anomaly where it says 274 SpecEd students took the SAT versus the 252 reported in table A.3]. 21 were from WJ. The average should have been 274 SpecEd Students taking the SAT / 25 High Schools ~= 11. WJ did have 10 more than the average. Now, would those 10 SpecEd scores really have changed the overall SAT averages to make a ranking difference?
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 21:51     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I remember reading the post a while back that showed Blair's SAT average was 50 points higher for the largest common cohort to it and any W in order to isolate for demographic differences and gauge the school's actual value. Some people argued but the magnet responsible which was ridiculous because it's a small program in a large school that's also mostly Asian. These silly posts that are based on outdated notions from 30 years ago are mostly laughable.
I believe these were the SAT scores for the largest cohort common to each of these high-schools

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wootton 1262
Churchill 1257

The data was published by the county here.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf


This makes a lot more sense than just dumping raw data.

The smartest white kids means it’s the best school? I cannot imagine anything more racist and classist than that, considering 90% of Blair kids are from rich liberal families in Takoma Park. I know a few of them myself.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 21:43     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:

I remember reading the post a while back that showed Blair's SAT average was 50 points higher for the largest common cohort to it and any W in order to isolate for demographic differences and gauge the school's actual value. Some people argued but the magnet responsible which was ridiculous because it's a small program in a large school that's also mostly Asian. These silly posts that are based on outdated notions from 30 years ago are mostly laughable.
I believe these were the SAT scores for the largest cohort common to each of these high-schools

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wootton 1262
Churchill 1257

The data was published by the county here.
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf


This makes a lot more sense than just dumping raw data.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 21:41     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If anyone is interesting in the actual school ranking by SAT score, here it is!

1 Poolesville 1420
2 Walt Whitman 1310

What year is this?


1990? All kidding aside these averages aren't very nuanced since they don't factor for socioeconomic differences. I liked the earlier analysis better. It was simple but using demographic cohorts for a SES proxy at least gives us some ability to compare like groups to see what value the school adds to the equation.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 21:39     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Again, the table at 09/15/2021 21:14 is incorrect. The correct ranking of SAT score averages in 2017 is this one 09/15/2021 21:21 derived from Table A.6.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 21:37     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
The original data is here

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

It's from 2017. Not sure if there is more recent data than this?
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 21:36     Subject: Re:Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
What year is this?


This was the wrong table. Ignore that one.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 21:35     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
#13 above - Alla is actually "All" "a", or the average of the scores from all High Schools within MCPS and shows which schools fall above or below the MCPS average. These results correlate well to other indicators (give-or-take). Although there are anomalies, it's a reasonable overall ranking estimate.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2021 21:34     Subject: Where do you consider MCPS high schools on a scale of good-bad
Anonymous wrote:If anyone is interesting in the actual school ranking by SAT score, here it is!

1 Poolesville 1420
2 Walt Whitman 1310
3 Bethesda-Chevy Chase 1298
4 Winston Churchill 1296
5 Montgomery Blair 1290
6 Thomas S. Wootton 1278
7 Richard Montgomery 1265
8 Damascus 1223
9 Northwest 1203
10 Walter Johnson 1200
11 Sherwood 1197
12 Col. Zadok Magruder 1185
13 Clarksburg 1181
14 Quince Orchard 1176
15 Seneca Valley 1162
16 Wheaton 1159
17 Rockville 1156
18 Paint Branch 1143
19 Gaithersburg 1132
20 James Hubert Blake 1117
21 Springbrook 1112
22 Albert Einstein 1104
23 Northwood 1099
24 Watkins Mill 1098
25 John F. Kennedy 999

What year is this?