Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:40     Subject: Re:Serena is a bully and a crybaby
has anyone gone back to see how many game penalties Ramos has ever given? (men or women) and how many times he's called coaching (men or women)?

That would be useful information to have.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:25     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:McEnroe yelled but never demanded an apology. Serena took it one step further. It wasn't just a temper tantrum, it was a ploy to push buttons and cause a blow up.


You never watche McEnroe play. And you definitely never watched Jimmy Connors or Ille Nasty Nastase play. Nobody has come close to that maniac.


that was 40+ years ago when tennis players were getting like 100k in today's money for winning a GS. it was a different time, let it go.


Djokovic and Nadal are very much today. And they have done the same damn thing and nay a point taken from them. You stop mansplaining.


in which specific match were nadal and djokovic

1) coached (by their own coaches' admission 2) broke their racquets AND 3) engaged in prolonged verbal abuse of the empire and carried it to the court (so it was not just limited to changeover, as navratilova pointed out).

please stop muddying the water. if serena merely abused the umpire she wouldn't have lost the game. if she merely broke her racquet she wouldn't have lost the game. if she only did two out of the 3 things, she should have merely lost a point. but SHE DID ALL THREE THINGS IN THE SAME MATCH. other players even when behaving obnoxiously don't usually do this which is why game penalty is rare.


Nadal was so coached by Uncle Toni in his prime years that other players complained about it. Many of the players do it. There were so many matches in which Nadal, Ferrer, Murray, Djoker, Roddick etc went on and on.


nobody said other players are not coached. Almost all of them are coached which is a reason coaching is allowed in many tournaments (a big opponent of 'legalized' coaching - yup, Serena Williams).

please give me a match in which nadal was coached, smashed a racquet and repeatedly abused umpire and was not penalized. thank you.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:20     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby


NP - Smashing a racquet IS an automatic violation. The issue is that the ump had already chosen to give her a formal warning for coaching, so the penalty for racquet abuse was larger. Had he privately said something to her (or let it go entirely), the racquet smashing would only have received a warning, not a loss of a point.


Smashing the racket was her 3rd violation. The umpire was not out of line.

Just because she is Serena does not except her from being penalized. As for being compared to others, most racket abusers do receive warnings. there are those who have not, but it does not mean that she was being singled out. As someone mentioned, she got the warning, did not react, then a few games later, decided she wanted an apology -- so she started yelling and screaming at the umpire instead of taking her time and focusing on her game. She knew she was not going to get the spotlight by winning so she did it by making this a sexist issue ...
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:19     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Great article about Serena Williams and the historical roots of the "angry black woman" trope.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45476500
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:19     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Watched the whole game, trophy presentation, post game conferences, read a lot of the editorials. Was not necessarily rooting for one player or the other.

The ump overstepped his authority and applied the coaching warning in an unusual way. He then had opportunities to diffuse the situation and chose to escalate instead.

Serena could have moved on from the warning but chose to smash her racquet and argue long after the fact and only after she lost her serve and was coming close to losing.

Both of them behaved badly and both of them stole the spotlight and celebration from a young player who performed brilliantly in her first Grand Slam final
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:14     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:McEnroe yelled but never demanded an apology. Serena took it one step further. It wasn't just a temper tantrum, it was a ploy to push buttons and cause a blow up.


You never watche McEnroe play. And you definitely never watched Jimmy Connors or Ille Nasty Nastase play. Nobody has come close to that maniac.


that was 40+ years ago when tennis players were getting like 100k in today's money for winning a GS. it was a different time, let it go.


Djokovic and Nadal are very much today. And they have done the same damn thing and nay a point taken from them. You stop mansplaining.


in which specific match were nadal and djokovic

1) coached (by their own coaches' admission 2) broke their racquets AND 3) engaged in prolonged verbal abuse of the empire and carried it to the court (so it was not just limited to changeover, as navratilova pointed out).

please stop muddying the water. if serena merely abused the umpire she wouldn't have lost the game. if she merely broke her racquet she wouldn't have lost the game. if she only did two out of the 3 things, she should have merely lost a point. but SHE DID ALL THREE THINGS IN THE SAME MATCH. other players even when behaving obnoxiously don't usually do this which is why game penalty is rare.


Nadal was so coached by Uncle Toni in his prime years that other players complained about it. Many of the players do it. There were so many matches in which Nadal, Ferrer, Murray, Djoker, Roddick etc went on and on.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:14     Subject: Re:Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:Serena's behavior was self-indulgence in a frustrating situation of losing the match she expected and very much wanted to win. I don't mind her behavior on court that much, it happens and she was punished for it. The problem here is turning that moment of self-indulgence into a righteous cause. I can understand that she is embarrassed and trying to rationalize and deflect away what was not her greatest moment. But everyone else who is on board with this is an idiot, a fool or worse. There is absolutely no decent reason for making a nasty tantrum into a human right issue.


+1000
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:13     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just watched the whole thing via the NYTimes and she appeared very disrespectful towards the umpire. Berating him and insulting him. Unacceptable.


That's how women are categorized when standing up for themselves... Hysterical... Men are assertive. Double standard.


There is a straight up racist a few pages back but somehow you managed to make the most annoying post in the thread


No kidding. Since when is smashing your racquet in anger “standing up for” yourself?


Ask Sampras, Agassi, Sharapanova, Nader, Djokovic and all the many other players who have smashed racquets.


smashing racquet is an automatic penalty.


No it isn't. As everyone has been saying it is up to the discretion of the ump.


no, not everyone has been saying it because it is not true. it is an automatic code violation. Of course the umpire still needs to record it but there is no judgment call involved the way there is regarding coaching, time between points, taking back to the umpire etc
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:12     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just watched the whole thing via the NYTimes and she appeared very disrespectful towards the umpire. Berating him and insulting him. Unacceptable.


That's how women are categorized when standing up for themselves... Hysterical... Men are assertive. Double standard.


There is a straight up racist a few pages back but somehow you managed to make the most annoying post in the thread


No kidding. Since when is smashing your racquet in anger “standing up for” yourself?


Ask Sampras, Agassi, Sharapanova, Nader, Djokovic and all the many other players who have smashed racquets.


smashing racquet is an automatic penalty.


No it isn't. As everyone has been saying it is up to the discretion of the ump.


NP - Smashing a racquet IS an automatic violation. The issue is that the ump had already chosen to give her a formal warning for coaching, so the penalty for racquet abuse was larger. Had he privately said something to her (or let it go entirely), the racquet smashing would only have received a warning, not a loss of a point.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:09     Subject: Re:Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Great opinion piece by Marina Navratilova.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/opinion/martina-navratilova-serena-williams-us-open.html


Ugh, that's the same garbage women get hit with all the time when they try to stand up to sexism -- who cares what men are allowed to get away with, you just keep your pretty little head down for the comfort of everyone else.


And what makes it worse is that Martina was the one who would complain and cry on the court when Everett wouldn't make a sound. Martina is the very person she is criticizing. I always thought she was racist after she started doing commentary because of her non stop criticism for the Williams sisters. She would go after both of them and criticized them for the very illogical fault of "relying on their athleticism to win". Martina was a muscular woman who was made fun of for steroid use, being a man etc. She is amazing in her lack of self reflection.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:05     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just watched the whole thing via the NYTimes and she appeared very disrespectful towards the umpire. Berating him and insulting him. Unacceptable.


That's how women are categorized when standing up for themselves... Hysterical... Men are assertive. Double standard.


There is a straight up racist a few pages back but somehow you managed to make the most annoying post in the thread


No kidding. Since when is smashing your racquet in anger “standing up for” yourself?


Ask Sampras, Agassi, Sharapanova, Nader, Djokovic and all the many other players who have smashed racquets.


smashing racquet is an automatic penalty.


No it isn't. As everyone has been saying it is up to the discretion of the ump.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:05     Subject: Re:Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Serena's behavior was self-indulgence in a frustrating situation of losing the match she expected and very much wanted to win. I don't mind her behavior on court that much, it happens and she was punished for it. The problem here is turning that moment of self-indulgence into a righteous cause. I can understand that she is embarrassed and trying to rationalize and deflect away what was not her greatest moment. But everyone else who is on board with this is an idiot, a fool or worse. There is absolutely no decent reason for making a nasty tantrum into a human right issue.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:04     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just watched the whole thing via the NYTimes and she appeared very disrespectful towards the umpire. Berating him and insulting him. Unacceptable.


That's how women are categorized when standing up for themselves... Hysterical... Men are assertive. Double standard.


There is a straight up racist a few pages back but somehow you managed to make the most annoying post in the thread


No kidding. Since when is smashing your racquet in anger “standing up for” yourself?


Ask Sampras, Agassi, Sharapanova, Nader, Djokovic and all the many other players who have smashed racquets.


This is professional tennis truth. The list of top ranked professional players who have not smashed a racquet on court during a match is incredbly small. I'm struggling to think of one player who has not who has had a career that lasted longer than a second.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 12:02     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:McEnroe yelled but never demanded an apology. Serena took it one step further. It wasn't just a temper tantrum, it was a ploy to push buttons and cause a blow up.


You never watche McEnroe play. And you definitely never watched Jimmy Connors or Ille Nasty Nastase play. Nobody has come close to that maniac.


Nasty still tries to ruin tennis in his old age.

So many of the people posting on this thread have no clue how badly players act. I'm not condoning what they do. It is a pressure filled game that requires the help of a sports psychologist to get to the top levels. Also, some of the tantrums Federer has thrown have disappeared from the internet. He and Andy Murray had some bizarre exchange I have recorded and it caused a lot of talk/speculation on the tennis forums. Roger was being nasty. After a day, I couldn't find the video anywhere on the internet.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:58     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned but there was a sports commentator on the radio and she mentioned a video that is circulating. The video is of this official and his reactions to men who have acted out. The video apparently shows men behavior that was as bad and worse than Serena but no foul/penalty was called. Not one.

There have been tennis players, men and women, who have come to her defense. This is not to excuse all of her behavior. But the fact is that she was treated differently.

I am frankly tired of women being labeled as loud, obnoxious, hysterical, bitchy, etc. when they act in a manner other than a doormat. She stood up for herself as male players have. She was penalize and they were not (by this official). I'm guessing this guy did not like this little lady challenging him. That's sexism plain and simple.


She started off calmly reasoning with the official. But when she started yelling and busting her racket she had lost control of temper. Losing control of yourself like that is not ever going to make you look good. I get that she was frustrated. But it is what it is. Stupid officiating doesn't give you the license to lose your sh*t like that.

Come on. You really think that other female athletes should emulate this sort of behavior as a form of girl power? Don't be ridiculous. There is nothing powerful about losing control of yourself like that.