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Anonymous wrote:Most people on CH can’t afford to move or go private, so they are really stuck. However there are more charter high schools than the ones DCUM finds acceptable and many families I know send their kids to these high schools.

Total BS. Whether a family rents or buys on CH, the same money spent on rent and equity/mortgage payments could be spent on housing in the DC burbs. No middle-class family is stuck with mediocre or bad schooling options in Ward 6.

No, housing is relatively cheaper on the Hill. Many of us can’t trade up that easily.

Cheaper as compared to where? North and Central Arlington 3-bedroom houses and Hill houses are priced comparably (we've done lots of searching). Same with 3-bedroom rentals. Almost all of Fairfax and Falls Church and at least half of MoCo are cheaper than the Hill.

Not for schools that are clearly better.

NW DC, Arlington, Falls Church and MoCo zoned for the “good” schools have almosr nothing under $1m. 20002/20003 currently have 150+ 2br+ properties for under $1 mil. Fairfax is better but you start getting really deep into the burbs and trading off time for money.

This leaves families contemplating a move to the DCC or Richard Montgomery HS. At that point many Hill families will stick it out a bit longer to hope that Walls or McKinley or a cheaper Catholic HS will work out.

You keep saying this. But you've been told over and over again that things sell quickly in these areas so you just won't ever see lots of inventory at any price point. (At least not in the 7 years I've lived in Arlington.) There are never ever 150+ properties on the market in a single price range. You have to watch when things come up and pounce. It doesn't mean that there aren't options. It just means that they don't sit around.

This is not even remotely limited to Arlington. Houses in the Dc area sell fast. And i don’t know where you’re finding homes under 1 million on Capitol Hill. They don’t really exist.

As a final note- Arlington middle schools are not good.

What is your basis for arguing this? I live on the Hill while my ex lives in Arlington. We split custody. I like the neighborhood MS my boys attend in Arlington, although it's not one of the several with the "most favorable demographics." My rising 8th grader has earned the grades to enroll in "intensified" (honors) classes across the board for his last year in MS, in science, math (geometry and algebra II), social studies (geography for HS credit), English and band. He's also going into his 3rd year of Chinese at the school. He's taken band as a daily class since 6th grade, learned to play a brass instrument well for free. For the most part, his teachers are strong, experienced, older, been at the school for many years. Admins tell me that intensified classes outside math will be available to younger son starting in 7th grade, a new county initiative.

At the several DCPS middle schools in Ward 6, which my ex and I considered, the only definite honors classes I heard about are for math, and maybe grade-level English at Stuart Hobson. If Arlington middle schools aren't good, where are they good in this area, other than the super duper GT test-in programs in Fairfax and MoCo serving less than 10% of students? Arlington doesn't have test-in GT, DCPS either of course.

A lot of UMC in Ward 6 have kids at BASIS, which starts in 5th. True, you have to get accepted in 5th grade and it gets harder each year (easier with sibling preference).

There are other options in DC as well:

https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/middle-schools/district-of-columbia

Other than maybe Williamsburg or Swanson, it doesn't seem like Arlington has very good options.

You're out of the loop. Right now Hamm is the most highly regarded MS in Arlington.

Oh, the most highly regarded? By whom? You?

According to USNWR, it is the worst of the bunch in Arlington.

https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/middle-schools/virginia?city-zip=arlington

DP. It’s unranked because it’s still very new. It’s a new school in a brand new building in N Arlington. It’s the most coveted MS in Arlington by many people.

Yes, it's building is the nicest by a long shot and its demographics the most "favorable." Good for Arlington for relieving crowding at Williamsburg and Swanson in a big way by opening Dorothy Hamm during Covid. DC won't build/create new middle schools where white students amalgamate, no way.

::Squints at MacArthur::

Aggrieved white people crack me up. Call me a victim, don't look at the facts!

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Anonymous wrote:Are you considering moving to NW, or outside of DC? I am asking because before we got great 5th grade lottery luck we were having the same conversations in our house. We came to the conclusion that the NW burbs were really just that; burbs. Deal and JR are the best public schools in DC, but they do not compare favorably to the best public schools in MD or VA. If we were prepared to leave CH for schools, we weren't going to nibble around the edges for JR and were going to just pull the ripcord and decamp for true burbs and objectively better schools.

I think this is how we feel, too EXCEPT since we only have one kid, we've actually considered just moving into an apartment zoned for Deal/JR that is in the densest, most urban parts of the catchment. So basically Van Ness or Wisconsin Avenue near the Cathedral. Something pretty walkable and very close to public transportation. If we did this, we wouldn't even sell our house, just rent it out until DC finishes HS.

What we could afford to buy in NW would be far from the metro and very suburban, and if we're going to do that, we might as well leave DC and get a little more value/space for our money and really good schools.

If you lived close to downtown Bethesda you’d be walkable to far more than either of those areas. Just a thought.

Anonymous wrote:I don't the angst expressed in this long thread. If you know that you won't have the money/resources to enjoy life on the Hill with older kids without serious MS lottery luck, why not simply put roots down in the burbs in the first place? If you can afford good public schools for your kids in the burbs but not in DC, live in the burbs, no brainer, no regrets.

Why should any of us who've figured out to stay on CH comfortably in the absence of lottery luck bother to offer advice when we're slammed for suggesting this and that? What use is the envy, the accusations of smugness on the part of "jackasses?" Why not simply applaud all the families who found solutions that worked, wherever they landed.

This thread has become a waste of time. Sore losers, be gone.

The topic of this thread is "for people who have moved out of CH to NW or burbs, do you have regrets/what are your feelings?"

But for some reason, you (a person who has not moved out of CH) has made this thread entirely about your choices and your feelings about people who STAY in CH. No one asked!

Literally every one of your comments is a waste of time and a distraction from the actual topic of the thread, but you are so self-centered and myopic that it doesn't even occur to you that this thread simply is not for you. If you want a thread in which people congratulate you on your good planning for MS/HS on the Hill, you are more than welcome to start that thread, and watch as no one posts in in because NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOU.

For someone who prides themselves on being smarter than everyone else, you keep demonstrating your basic lack of common sense and reading comprehension. Hope your kid's private does a better job teaching them those skills, since obviously they aren't getting it from you.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't the angst expressed in this long thread. If you know that you won't have the money/resources to enjoy life on the Hill with older kids without serious MS lottery luck, why not simply put roots down in the burbs in the first place? If you can afford good public schools for your kids in the burbs but not in DC, live in the burbs, no brainer, no regrets.

Why should any of us who've figured out to stay on CH comfortably in the absence of lottery luck bother to offer advice when we're slammed for suggesting this and that? What use is the envy, the accusations of smugness on the part of "jackasses?" Why not simply applaud all the families who found solutions that worked, wherever they landed.

This thread has become a waste of time. Sore losers, be gone.

A) People don't always know this in advance, which was the point several PPs have made
B) Some posters are not offering advice and are instead slamming parents for not planning

When people were initially making the choice to settle in CH who now have 2nd/3rd/4th graders, BASIS looked like you had to be unlucky not to get in.

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Anonymous wrote:I also am completely confused why acknowledging that Eastern serves communities way beyond Capitol Hill makes me "think a great deal of myself." But you assuming everyone in every neighborhood wants to be described as living on the Hill & it is somehow insulting to say they don't... doesn't.

This all started with correcting the false assumption that everyone on “the Hill” can trade up for some 1.5 mil home in N Arlington as part of the Hill-suburbs migration OP is asking about. If your answer to that is “of course they can because the Hill is exclusively the historic district” then you don’t really have anything useful to add.

The rest of us understand that when we talk about “the Capitol Hill school situation” we are generally referring to kids zoned for EH, SH and Jefferson. I guess there’s some reason to quibble about the less central feeders (Miner, Van Ness, Amidon, JOW) but we are all truly in the same boat as far as school options here go.

You’re in the same boat with respect to MS/HS but your neighborhoods are by no means equivalent. Point is that it’s more of a loss to turn one’s back on certain CH addresses than others in adjacent areas when heading for Ward 3 or the burbs. _That_ is what is implied in the handwringing of the OP.

In other words, not all Eastern-zoned families would be giving up the same thing.

— NP who doesn’t even live in CH but visits and has eyeballs

Yes, it's obvious some of you who are posting don't live in or near CH.

Look, it is hard for someone who lives at 7th and Maryland NE (unquestionably Capitol Hill) to leave the neighborhood if they love the neighborhood. But what some of you who are obsessing about how certain things are "on the Hill" and others are outside an invisible boundary need to understand, is that the person who lives at 7th and Maryland NE is sad about moving away from not just the CH historic district, but a much broader area with a bunch of amenities and community that extend well beyond it. They are sad to move away from H Street, which is not "on the Hill" but is walkable from their house and includes a nice grocery store and a host of restaurants and bars and retail stores they enjoy. They are sad to miss out on walkability to Nats Park in the summer, which is in Navy Yard but the proximity of Navy Yard and its amenities is a huge benefit to people on the Hill. They'll also miss Union Market and the Angelika, being able to walk or bike or catch a bus into downtown or to the museums on the mall. All of this is part of what makes CH special. It's not about just living in a few square blocks of row homes.

They also have friends throughout the Hill *and environs* that will include people who live north of H, east of Lincoln Park, and south of Pennsylvania Ave. And those friends, they'll find, have the same concerns about schools (their kids are zoned for the same schools after elementary), the same reasons for loving the neighborhood, the same reticence to leave. They will spend lots of time at those friend's homes or meeting those friends in the neighborhood, even though they live "on Capitol Hill" and their friends live in NoMa, Navy Yard, and Hill East.

If you live in a suburb without the kind of walkability and density of the Hill, you may not get any of this. If the only places you can walk in your neighborhood are the surrounding streets, and going anywhere else means getting in the car whether it's 2 miles or 20 miles away, you might not get this.

No one who lives on Capitol Hill looks at people who live in Kingman Park or near Union Market or south of Eastern Market and thinks "oh those people's problems and attachment to this area are totally different from mine." Unless they are very dumb.

yep - we have been renting affordable in Hill East and know we can't afford to buy (opposite sex kids so need 3 bedrooms), but wow what a great baby, toddlerhood, preschool and even early elementary we've had. Very sad to leave... kind of in inertia about what to do.

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Anonymous wrote:Some people on this thread seem really committed to the idea that you must be a moron if you didn't perfectly plan your life 10-15 years ahead. Yes of course some amount of realistic planning is required in life, but you don't always know exactly how many kids you will have, what their educational needs will be, and what schools and school districts will look like that far out. You don't know what your future financial situation will look like. Facing a middle school problem on the Hill is not automatically the result of a lack of planning. Have some empathy.

It sounds like so many people on the Hill are facing a MS problem that if they just all went to their local MS, the problem would be solved.

Well, this is why so many in Hill East are now going to EH. They can’t move and struck out in the lottery, but they know everyone else in the neighborhood is in the sane boat, so suddenly EH doesn’t look so bad.

+1. EH IB is already at 41%, and I expect that number will only go up, because most people in that boundary can’t afford to move, unlike the people in the SH boundary.

Ironically, this then makes trying to lottery into EH from the SH boundary an appealing option for the people in the SH boundary who can't afford private and either can't afford to move, or don't want to. Because if EH keeps building it's IB buy-in, it will wind up with better community and family support than SH.

I don't think you'll see this really, at least for a long time. SH is much more convenient to the SH boundary than EH is, which is both relatively far away and a commute in the wrong direction for parents (vice close and on the way to Union Station). SH still has better tracking and results overall (both of which could change, but it will be awhile on the latter). Some of SH's OOB numbers are proximity preference folks from the Brent boundary, so not all OOB isn't the same community/etc. SH also has an excellent performing arts program which is a draw. My kids enjoyed Moana, but from an overall production perspective if your kid is into musical theatre Lion King v Moana was a sizeable gulf. Also SH has the bands as well. SH is being hurt by Watkins' decline, but hopefully L-T's rise should help balance that. After JOW's renovation, I think we could see a real uptick in IB buy-in there, which could also help out SH long-term.

I very much think EH is on an upwards trajectory and want all CH schools to improve... but I think we're a long way from folks lotterying from SH to EH.

Anonymous wrote:I don't the angst expressed in this long thread. If you know that you won't have the money/resources to enjoy life on the Hill with older kids without serious MS lottery luck, why not simply put roots down in the burbs in the first place? If you can afford good public schools for your kids in the burbs but not in DC, live in the burbs, no brainer, no regrets.

Why should any of us who've figured out to stay on CH comfortably in the absence of lottery luck bother to offer advice when we're slammed for suggesting this and that? What use is the envy, the accusations of smugness on the part of "jackasses?" Why not simply applaud all the families who found solutions that worked, wherever they landed.

This thread has become a waste of time. Sore losers, be gone.

lol maybe it’s because you call people with fewer resources “losers” ….

Anonymous wrote:I don't the angst expressed in this long thread. If you know that you won't have the money/resources to enjoy life on the Hill with older kids without serious MS lottery luck, why not simply put roots down in the burbs in the first place? If you can afford good public schools for your kids in the burbs but not in DC, live in the burbs, no brainer, no regrets.

Why should any of us who've figured out to stay on CH comfortably in the absence of lottery luck bother to offer advice when we're slammed for suggesting this and that? What use is the envy, the accusations of smugness on the part of "jackasses?" Why not simply applaud all the families who found solutions that worked, wherever they landed.

This thread has become a waste of time. Sore losers, be gone.

A) People don't always know this in advance, which was the point several PPs have made
B) Some posters are not offering advice and are instead slamming parents for not planning

I don't the angst expressed in this long thread. If you know that you won't have the money/resources to enjoy life on the Hill with older kids without serious MS lottery luck, why not simply put roots down in the burbs in the first place? If you can afford good public schools for your kids in the burbs but not in DC, live in the burbs, no brainer, no regrets.

Why should any of us who've figured out to stay on CH comfortably in the absence of lottery luck bother to offer advice when we're slammed for suggesting this and that? What use is the envy, the accusations of smugness on the part of "jackasses?" Why not simply applaud all the families who found solutions that worked, wherever they landed.

This thread has become a waste of time. Sore losers, be gone.

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Anonymous wrote:Some people on this thread seem really committed to the idea that you must be a moron if you didn't perfectly plan your life 10-15 years ahead. Yes of course some amount of realistic planning is required in life, but you don't always know exactly how many kids you will have, what their educational needs will be, and what schools and school districts will look like that far out. You don't know what your future financial situation will look like. Facing a middle school problem on the Hill is not automatically the result of a lack of planning. Have some empathy.

It sounds like so many people on the Hill are facing a MS problem that if they just all went to their local MS, the problem would be solved.

Well, this is why so many in Hill East are now going to EH. They can’t move and struck out in the lottery, but they know everyone else in the neighborhood is in the sane boat, so suddenly EH doesn’t look so bad.

+1. EH IB is already at 41%, and I expect that number will only go up, because most people in that boundary can’t afford to move, unlike the people in the SH boundary.

Ironically, this then makes trying to lottery into EH from the SH boundary an appealing option for the people in the SH boundary who can't afford private and either can't afford to move, or don't want to. Because if EH keeps building it's IB buy-in, it will wind up with better community and family support than SH.

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Anonymous wrote:The parents moving from the Hill to NW or the burbs for school aren't nearly that committed. They aren't going to go the extra mile to stay by building basement apartments. They want lottery luck. They plan on getting it until they....don't.

Or they can’t afford a row house with a basement?

Kind of hard to put a rental unit in your condo.

I don’t know why it’s hard for some of you to understand that the main factor in being able to stay on the Hill long term without relying on lottery luck is money/resources. You’re very attached to the idea that you are able to stay because others “failed to plan.” You can plan all you want but if you don’t have the money or resources to make certain real estate choices or establish alternative forms of income, it won’t matter.

Like I’m happy for you that you have a solution that works for you, but refusing to get that your solution is out of reach for many people just makes you sound like a jackass. Of course not everyone can fund private school with a rental income unit! Come on.

If they can’t afford a rowhouse with a basement, how are they going to afford a condo in NW or the burbs?

They can't, that' the whole point. If you currently live in a condo on the Hill, like your elementary but feel iffy about your IB middle school and downright bad about your IB high school, you are in a difficult position. You can't simply rent out your basement to get cash for private school. Your mortgage on your condo is probably higher than the mortgages some of your neighbors who bought pre-2012 or so pay for a 3 bedroom row house, so it's hard to save extra or alter your spending in order to give yourself more options. Meanwhile, you can't just go buy a house in one of the really desirable school boundaries, whether in NW or the burbs. So you lottery and hope for the best, and when you are disappointed, your smug neighbor who is paying $1500/mo for a row house with a basement income unit and sending their kids to Gonzaga doesn't want to hear it because you "failed to plan."

So far, the best suggestion is probably to look at the Eastern parts of Silver Spring and consider if schools like Einstein, Blair, or maybe Wheaton (and their MS feeds) could be a reasonable upgrade over your current options of trying SH/EH/JA for middle and hoping for a spot at Walls, Banneker, or a few other high schools in DC that are at least doing better than Eastern is at the moment. I think some people decide that move is worth it and some don't. Some discover that their IB middle school is actually perfectly decent, and that makes them decide to roll the dice a bit for high school. Everyone has a different risk tolerance. You also have to spend time in those neighborhoods in SS. Some of them have some walkability to metro and other services, but most don't. Some are nicer areas, some are not so nice. A lot of the areas in those catchments have the exact same crime issues that we see on Capitol Hill, so it's not like that's an obvious upgrade. Moving to those areas might mean having to buy a car, or even two, for a lot of Hill families, so you have to factor in spending another 30-60k in order to move. It's not a slam dunk.

It's exhausting to have to explain this because if you live on the Hill, or have recently, you should understand these considerations. But for some reason this thread is full of people who are oblivious, smug, or just ignorant, and who keep trying to gaslight people by telling them "just move" or "you should have planned better." Also a weird number of people who do not and have never lived on the Hill and who want to bicker about whether Hill East "counts" or what the precise boundaries of Capitol Hill are, a conversation that is meaningless because we're talking about schools and community, both of which adhere to much broader definitions of Capitol Hill.

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Anonymous wrote:Some people on this thread seem really committed to the idea that you must be a moron if you didn't perfectly plan your life 10-15 years ahead. Yes of course some amount of realistic planning is required in life, but you don't always know exactly how many kids you will have, what their educational needs will be, and what schools and school districts will look like that far out. You don't know what your future financial situation will look like. Facing a middle school problem on the Hill is not automatically the result of a lack of planning. Have some empathy.

It sounds like so many people on the Hill are facing a MS problem that if they just all went to their local MS, the problem would be solved.

Well, this is why so many in Hill East are now going to EH. They can’t move and struck out in the lottery, but they know everyone else in the neighborhood is in the sane boat, so suddenly EH doesn’t look so bad.

Yes, and it's probably part of the reason Jefferson has made less progress attracting Brent families. Their houses are almost uniformly worth $1.3 million+. They have options.

They do, but getting back to OP’s point - they probably don’t want to leave their lovely block, walking distance to so much great stuff, and all their neighbors.

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Anonymous wrote:Some people on this thread seem really committed to the idea that you must be a moron if you didn't perfectly plan your life 10-15 years ahead. Yes of course some amount of realistic planning is required in life, but you don't always know exactly how many kids you will have, what their educational needs will be, and what schools and school districts will look like that far out. You don't know what your future financial situation will look like. Facing a middle school problem on the Hill is not automatically the result of a lack of planning. Have some empathy.

It sounds like so many people on the Hill are facing a MS problem that if they just all went to their local MS, the problem would be solved.

Well, this is why so many in Hill East are now going to EH. They can’t move and struck out in the lottery, but they know everyone else in the neighborhood is in the sane boat, so suddenly EH doesn’t look so bad.

I know I’m going to sound like a massive booster, but I have been very impressed with all the EH administrators I have met so far. Fingers crossed.

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Anonymous wrote:Some people on this thread seem really committed to the idea that you must be a moron if you didn't perfectly plan your life 10-15 years ahead. Yes of course some amount of realistic planning is required in life, but you don't always know exactly how many kids you will have, what their educational needs will be, and what schools and school districts will look like that far out. You don't know what your future financial situation will look like. Facing a middle school problem on the Hill is not automatically the result of a lack of planning. Have some empathy.

It sounds like so many people on the Hill are facing a MS problem that if they just all went to their local MS, the problem would be solved.

Well, this is why so many in Hill East are now going to EH. They can’t move and struck out in the lottery, but they know everyone else in the neighborhood is in the sane boat, so suddenly EH doesn’t look so bad.

+1. EH IB is already at 41%, and I expect that number will only go up, because most people in that boundary can’t afford to move, unlike the people in the SH boundary.

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Anonymous wrote:Some people on this thread seem really committed to the idea that you must be a moron if you didn't perfectly plan your life 10-15 years ahead. Yes of course some amount of realistic planning is required in life, but you don't always know exactly how many kids you will have, what their educational needs will be, and what schools and school districts will look like that far out. You don't know what your future financial situation will look like. Facing a middle school problem on the Hill is not automatically the result of a lack of planning. Have some empathy.

It sounds like so many people on the Hill are facing a MS problem that if they just all went to their local MS, the problem would be solved.

Well, this is why so many in Hill East are now going to EH. They can’t move and struck out in the lottery, but they know everyone else in the neighborhood is in the sane boat, so suddenly EH doesn’t look so bad.

Yes, and it's probably part of the reason Jefferson has made less progress attracting Brent families. Their houses are almost uniformly worth $1.3 million+. They have options.