Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rush to charge the officer with manslaughter when there hasn’t even been time for a thorough investigation was a performative joke. No sane jury will convict her and then every yahoo will be out in the street burning and looting over what was clearly a tragic accident. I guess facts and reason don’t matter anymore.

Second degree manslaughter is a charge used in the case of "negligent killing," according to a former judge from Minnesota in the news article link below. It is a perfectly appropriate charge in this case. We can all see on the video that Potter killed Wright thinking she was using a taser - so, there you go, a killing which was *negligent*. Yeah, facts and reason *do* matter and in this case they support a second-degree manslaughter charge. Anyway, if anyone wants to see this legal expert's discussion of the criteria for different possible charges, it's worth your while to check out this link:
https://kstp.com/news/former-judge-explains-reasoning-behind-manslaughter-charge-for-officer-who-shot-daunte-wright/6075504/

Anonymous wrote:So hitting an officer in the head with a hammer is fine if you are white?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Every time it happens, the chances of a killing increase. If you advocate for or excuse resisting arrest, you’re encouraging more deaths.

Why is it acceptable to you to kill someone for resisting arres

Show me where I said it’s acceptable. Guess what? You can’t. Learn to read.

You wrote advocating excuses for resisting arrest will icause more deaths that implied you think it's acceptable for police to us deadly force for resisting arrest.

If that's not what you mean I suggest you learn to write what you mean. Better yet, I suggest you form a well thought argument instead of just repeating talking points, and then lashing out with insults when called out on your stance.

NP, but I didn't see PP saying resisting arrest = acceptable police killing. PP said that resisting arrest INCREASES the chances of a police killing, shooting, use of deadly force, etc. Which is a simple fact. It shouldn't happen, but if cops feel threatened in the moment - well, they're the ones that are armed. And once deadly force is used (whether appropriately or not), it cannot be taken back, so the person is dead for good. Complying with police orders minimizes the chance of that happening, though I realize it is not always true for Black people.

Let me be clear: I don't think using deadly force in response to someone resisting arrest is acceptable. And there are plenty of cops who abuse their power and who should be punished for that. I am all for noting down their badge number, recording the interaction, and making complaints after the fact if the officer's behavior is inappropriate. But if someone resists arrest, they may not live to be able to do that, even if the shooting is totally unjustified and the officer is later prosecuted. They're still dead.

I agree that we should be focused on deescalation training and that obviously resisting arrest during a traffic stop shouldn't lead to shooting by the police. But encouraging people to resist arrest will (this is a separate question from should/should not) lead to escalation in some cases. We shouldn't encourage people to do that, and I say this as a POC myself.

Anonymous wrote:The rush to charge the officer with manslaughter when there hasn’t even been time for a thorough investigation was a performative joke. No sane jury will convict her and then every yahoo will be out in the street burning and looting over what was clearly a tragic accident. I guess facts and reason don’t matter anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Every time it happens, the chances of a killing increase. If you advocate for or excuse resisting arrest, you’re encouraging more deaths.

Why is it acceptable to you to kill someone for resisting arres

Show me where I said it’s acceptable. Guess what? You can’t. Learn to read.

You wrote advocating excuses for resisting arrest will icause more deaths that implied you think it's acceptable for police to us deadly force for resisting arrest.

If that's not what you mean I suggest you learn to write what you mean. Better yet, I suggest you form a well thought argument instead of just repeating talking points, and then lashing out with insults when called out on your stance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Every time it happens, the chances of a killing increase. If you advocate for or excuse resisting arrest, you’re encouraging more deaths.

Why is it acceptable to you to kill someone for resisting arres

Show me where I said it’s acceptable. Guess what? You can’t. Learn to read.

You wrote advocating excuses for resisting arrest will icause more deaths that implied you think it's acceptable for police to us deadly force for resisting arrest.

If that's not what you mean I suggest you learn to write what you mean. Better yet, I suggest you form a well thought argument instead of just repeating talking points, and then lashing out with insults when called out on your stance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Every time it happens, the chances of a killing increase. If you advocate for or excuse resisting arrest, you’re encouraging more deaths.

Why is it acceptable to you to kill someone for resisting arres

Show me where I said it’s acceptable. Guess what? You can’t. Learn to read.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Every time it happens, the chances of a killing increase. If you advocate for or excuse resisting arrest, you’re encouraging more deaths.

Why is it acceptable to you to kill someone for resisting arres

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Every time it happens, the chances of a killing increase. If you advocate for or excuse resisting arrest, you’re encouraging more deaths.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Don't make me kill you"

Yep I would say that if someone attacked me, or felt my life was in danger. No problem with that.