Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:57     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm a black woman--actually, 1/2 Asian too, but I identify as black given how I was raised (predominantly black schools and neighborhoods). While it seems there was some uneven adherence to the rules, it never works for a black person--even Serena Williams--to say that other non-black/males have gotten away with the same behavior. We know that we are conspicuous in predominantly white spaces and will be held to a different standard. A shame, and unfair, but the truth. Bad behavior is never seen as a reflection of an individual simply having a tough moment when the individual in question is black--it becomes an excuse for covert and overt racism.

Take a look at this Australian cartoon, in which the artist chose to portray Serena in the style of the Sambo-style depictions of black people common 100 years ago. Also see how Osaka is portrayed in the same cartoon.

http://www.tmz.com/2018/09/10/serena-williams-jk-rowling-newspaper-cartoon/


.. A different article where the cartoonist responds.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/405880-australian-newspaper-accused-of-racism-over-serena-williams




Having to explain this in 2018 is beyond sad.
My issue with the cartoon is not just the sexism, but also that he relies on racist historical images in his depiction of her facial features. I understand caricature, but the cartoon looks nothing like her. Instead, it looks more like these:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS751US751&biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=vKuWW-qwGZLw_AbVn5K4BQ&q=sambo+racist+cartoon&oq=sambo+racist&gs_l=img.1.1.35i39j0j0i5i30j0i8i30l2.5037.6006..8127...0.0..0.70.333.6......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i8i10i30.gFowd9251Mk
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:53     Subject: Re:Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The New York Times nailed it with this analysis:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/09/sports/tennis/serena-williams-us-open-equality.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage



Why should men and women athletes earn the same amount of money? More purple pay more money to watch the men in almost every sport

Should men and women salespeople earn the same amount of money regardless of how many people buy their products?


My only question in tennis would be why women aren’t required to play 5 set matches in grand slam events. Kind of insulting because it implies that women aren’t conditioned to the same level as men.


It will never happen because of the scheduling nightmares it will cause. They can barely fit in all the matches at a major and the players get put in the unenviable and untenable position of having to play on too little rest. There have actually been lots of discussions about shortening things.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:51     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Her coach actually admitted to coaching her and said all the coaches do it so it was odd that she was called on it.

He added that she didn’t see.

She kept on screaming at the umpire “you owe me an apology” and “you are a thief” more than once, so the umpire quietly told her “verbal abuse, 2nd warning” and “verbal abuse 3rd warning”. It was not audible to those who were on court.
She was not playing well right from the start. Her service percentage did not improve much in the 2nd set but right after the coaching, she started winning points by forcing Osaka to the net. osaka continued her great game. What she did was much more than “show her emotions”. Besides many make players have been penalized for breaking rackets.
Serena probably wanted to bring her baby to the court like Klijsters did when she won the US open less than a year after giving birth. She knew it was not happening so she list her temper and started acting out.


Didn't the ump's call set her off? Why did the ump make that call in the first place?



because he felt like it. it was a bad judgment but squarely within rules. if you watched tennis at all you would know that this happens all the time and it happens to everyone. and unlike this call, which at least was within rules, there are literal bad calls when balls which were out are called in etc. yes players can challenge them (a relatively recent development) but even today it happens that they run out of challenges and obviously wrong calls are allowed to stand.

tennis has a big mental component. losing break chances, match points, saving a double match point and having a break in the fifth, then losing at the end... dealing with unfair calls and lousy audience is a part of that. US open audience hates djokovic for example. he only has 2 wins here despite it being his best surface because they always viciously root against him. but, that's on him. it's a part of the game.


It does not happen all the time. The warning for coaching never happens. Serena was in shock for getting warned because it is unheard of. Bad line calls are a different issue. One can challenge them. You can't challenge conduct calls.


this is laughable... in shock for getting a coaching warning. and somehow the shock set in only when lost a serve. hahahaha

rather than take my word for it take Navratilova's - she said they were called all the time. thanks for playing.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:50     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned but there was a sports commentator on the radio and she mentioned a video that is circulating. The video is of this official and his reactions to men who have acted out. The video apparently shows men behavior that was as bad and worse than Serena but no foul/penalty was called. Not one.

There have been tennis players, men and women, who have come to her defense. This is not to excuse all of her behavior. But the fact is that she was treated differently.

I am frankly tired of women being labeled as loud, obnoxious, hysterical, bitchy, etc. when they act in a manner other than a doormat. She stood up for herself as male players have. She was penalize and they were not (by this official). I'm guessing this guy did not like this little lady challenging him. That's sexism plain and simple.


I'm a long time tennis fan and have an honest question for others who have followed the sport for decades. I'm sure you can find plenty of clips of men behaving badly and not getting a code violation. I also understand that being penalized a game is harsh and I don't recall ever seeing it in a Grand Slam final.

However, my question is whether the behavior by male players in the examples being cited occurred immediately after the call or whether it took place games after the questioned call? From my experience, male players often behave badly after a call goes against them and rarely get assessed a code violation when they argue after the call or during a changeover. However, once the temper tantrum has ended, play resumes and that it is the end of it. Only the worst instances of bad behavior immediately after a code violation would result in a second code violation. It is sort of like you get a code violation and you get to argue without any other penalty.

But that's not what happened here. Serena continued to argue and berate the referee about the initial coaching warning at different intervals throughout the match. Ramos wasn't a liar and a thief when she broke Osaka to go up 3-1. She only became irate when her play put her in a hole, and it was then that she resumed arguing about the call. And frankly, we don't know what words they exchanged. She may have been warned to stop arguing or else he would penalize her.

Are there examples of a male player having persisted in arguing a call throughout a match (or a set)? Those would be very helpful in assessing whether there was some sort of bias.

I saw an interview with Sally Jenkins of the Washington Post last night in which she was talking about her column claiming sexism. She said that assessing a third code violation for abuse in a Grand Slam final was unprecedented, and argued that the fact that it was assessed against Serena shows bias. Does anyone recall any other Grand Slam finals when a player continually harassed the referee about a single call through the match?

Also, Ms. Jenkins and others seem to suggest that the full game penalty was too harsh based on the behavior. My question is this: If Serena had not broken her racket, but all of the other events transpired as they did, would there have been this much outcry about assessing a second code violation when Serena called the umpire a liar and a thief several games after the call was made? In that case, Serena would have lost a point, not a game. If you wouldn't have a problem assessing a violation if her arguing was a second violation, then there is nothing wrong with calling the violation as a third. It was justified based on the behavior. People are acting as if a higher standard applies when an umpire assesses a third violation simply because it carries a higher penalty. But that's not what the rules say. A violation is a violation, whether it is the first, second, third or fourth. The penalties are mandatory, not standards for the violations. Ms. Jenkins made it sound as if a third violation must be extra, extra, extra bad simply because it carries a game penalty. But that's not what the rules say. The official did not have discretion to call another code violation and assess only a warning or a point.

For the researchers, how many of the cited examples of bad behavior by men occurred when the man already had two code violations? How many occurred several games after the disputed call and after a changeover? If such evidence exists, that would be helpful in evaluating whether the treatment was unfair or otherwise biased.

Another interesting aspect of this debate involves the fact that this was a Grand Slam Final. Ms. Jenkins and others have suggested that because this was a Grand Slam final, the official should have not have called the third violation because the penalty was so severe and it interfered with the match In an early round match, maybe it wouldn't matter as much. But for a Grand Slam final, when it involves Serena, the penalty never should have been called because it was too severe. But isn't the reverse true as well? With the stakes higher, shouldn't players be held to the highest standards of professionalism and sportsmanship so that the focus is on the players and their play? Yes, it was a Grand Slam final involving Serena. But Naomi Osaka won the right to be there too. Why is allowing behavior that continually distracted from and disrupted the match less harmful to the integrity of the match and the sport than having the official, as a means of ending the bad behavior, decide a a single game by way of a penalty? Serena was not going to stop arguing. She could have overcome that game penalty and come back to win if she had played better. The penalty should have been a wakeup call. Instead of distracting from the match, the penalty shifted the focus back onto the match and both players. But Serena wouldn't let that happen.

And let's be honest. If, after all her arguing, Serena had come back to win, wouldn't her victory have been marred too? Whether you call it unprofessional and unsportsmanlike behavior or an impassioned defense of women's rights, Serena's arguments could had unnerved Osaka and taken her out of her rhythm leading to a Serena victory. Is that fair? There was another strong women competing in the match who, like Serena, is entitled to respect and had a right to show what she can do on the court. In the name of feminism everyone seems to support Serena's right to trample all over another women's rights, which I just don't understand. Serena wasn't arguing on behalf of women; she could have done that after the match. She was arguing because she was angry, she wasn't playing well, and she wanted to win. She's a great competitor, but on Saturday, she selfishly disrespected a fellow woman in the biggest match of her life.


Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:50     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just watched the whole thing via the NYTimes and she appeared very disrespectful towards the umpire. Berating him and insulting him. Unacceptable.


I wish you and many other white critics here could step back and see that this is your repressed racism coming out here. This is the same repressed racism that makes you all hate on M Markle without having any real reason. You are hyper critical and rush to condemn any potential misstep by these dynamic and successful women of color. You will hold up the rule book and exclaim “but she broke xyz rule and that is just how it goes” but I didn’t hear anyone picking up the rule book every time a man broke the same kind of rule and wasn’t checked for it. You will come up with any and every reason to diminish these women and others like them. This is why black parents have been telling their children for generations that they have to be twice as good to be considered half as good as whites. It doesn’t matter how well the assignment is complete overall, if there is a t or i left uncrossed or undotted, a white pwrson will find and run with it to prove your unworthiness. So, when you find yourself asking again and again why does Serena seem so have such a chip on her shoulder, please understand that you helped put it there by continuing to ask the question.


This needs to be repeated.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:46     Subject: Re:Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I hate it when fans cheer unforced errors.


only at US open. they are the nastiest, hands down.[/quote

More BS. The French fans are the worst. Fact.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:44     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Her coach actually admitted to coaching her and said all the coaches do it so it was odd that she was called on it.

He added that she didn’t see.

She kept on screaming at the umpire “you owe me an apology” and “you are a thief” more than once, so the umpire quietly told her “verbal abuse, 2nd warning” and “verbal abuse 3rd warning”. It was not audible to those who were on court.
She was not playing well right from the start. Her service percentage did not improve much in the 2nd set but right after the coaching, she started winning points by forcing Osaka to the net. osaka continued her great game. What she did was much more than “show her emotions”. Besides many make players have been penalized for breaking rackets.
Serena probably wanted to bring her baby to the court like Klijsters did when she won the US open less than a year after giving birth. She knew it was not happening so she list her temper and started acting out.


Didn't the ump's call set her off? Why did the ump make that call in the first place?



because he felt like it. it was a bad judgment but squarely within rules. if you watched tennis at all you would know that this happens all the time and it happens to everyone. and unlike this call, which at least was within rules, there are literal bad calls when balls which were out are called in etc. yes players can challenge them (a relatively recent development) but even today it happens that they run out of challenges and obviously wrong calls are allowed to stand.

tennis has a big mental component. losing break chances, match points, saving a double match point and having a break in the fifth, then losing at the end... dealing with unfair calls and lousy audience is a part of that. US open audience hates djokovic for example. he only has 2 wins here despite it being his best surface because they always viciously root against him. but, that's on him. it's a part of the game.


It does not happen all the time. The warning for coaching never happens. Serena was in shock for getting warned because it is unheard of. Bad line calls are a different issue. One can challenge them. You can't challenge conduct calls.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:43     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Serena forced everybody to sit through an extended therapy session. When the first therapist didn't give her what she wanted to hear she called in the second therapists and made them listen to her feelings and issues and crying. It was headache inducing.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:28     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned but there was a sports commentator on the radio and she mentioned a video that is circulating. The video is of this official and his reactions to men who have acted out. The video apparently shows men behavior that was as bad and worse than Serena but no foul/penalty was called. Not one.

There have been tennis players, men and women, who have come to her defense. This is not to excuse all of her behavior. But the fact is that she was treated differently.

I am frankly tired of women being labeled as loud, obnoxious, hysterical, bitchy, etc. when they act in a manner other than a doormat. She stood up for herself as male players have. She was penalize and they were not (by this official). I'm guessing this guy did not like this little lady challenging him. That's sexism plain and simple.


no, she was not treated differently. please stop spreading a third-hand information (you heard someone said there was a video. seriously?).


NP here. Where do you get off. YES SHE WAS TREATED DIFFERENTLY. YES IT WAS SEXISM.

You don't know professional tennis if you say she wasn't treated differently. They never, ever, call coaching and definitely would not do it in a major final. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. The guys have to go way way over the line or be ranked below top 100 to ever get a point penalty.


Ther is ZERO evidence that has been treated differently. ZERO.

i have been following professional tennis for many years. coaching is called all the time and all players now that it might be called at any moment. besides coaching woolen have mattered if Serena also didn't break her racquet and then also abused the umpire. in fact if she only skipped one of those she would have merely lost a point. if she were winning she would never ever say those things to the umpire about a call that happened 20 minutes earlier. she wouldn't be where she is if she were not able to let the thing roll off her back when she needed to do so to win. but she knew she wasn't going to win so she indulged in a tantrum and the fools are making a her of her for it. Unbelievable.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:26     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:In one of the articles I read the writer said it was Serena's fault because she wouldn't let it go. It continued with the sexist assertion that men gripe and then stop and move on. After many decades of being a tennis fan, this is patently false. I have seen the top male players go on and on and on.

It was an embarrassingly sexist assertion that just helps the sexist behavior continue.

And to people who get angry about any mention of racial prejudice against the Williams sisters, sit down, shut up, and educate yourself. There's a lot of it internationally.


She started crying

There's no crying in tennis.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:21     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
In one of the articles I read the writer said it was Serena's fault because she wouldn't let it go. It continued with the sexist assertion that men gripe and then stop and move on. After many decades of being a tennis fan, this is patently false. I have seen the top male players go on and on and on.

It was an embarrassingly sexist assertion that just helps the sexist behavior continue.

And to people who get angry about any mention of racial prejudice against the Williams sisters, sit down, shut up, and educate yourself. There's a lot of it internationally.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:17     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So, help me out here... I just watched the video and obviously she was very upset yelling how she doesn't cheat, it's not fair...etc. Didn't her coach confessed about the game that he was coaching her? If so, she not only cheated, but also lied??


she probably didn't see his signs. but as Navratilova explained, the player is responsible for her coach's signs.


Martina’s article was great, but Serena will ignore it as she’s surrounded by enablers. I won’t watch her any longer.

She's the only reason you (and many others) watch women's tennis. Like her or not, you'll keep watching as long as she's around.


No, i used to love women's tennis in the time of Evert, Navratilova, Graf and Seles. I more or less lost interest when the Williams were dominating the game because the matches were too lobsided.


I know, how dare those black women come in and be better than everyone else. Don’t they know their place?


not PP but you are disgusting. i have been following tennis for more than 30 years. the most interesting periods for viwers are when you have rivalries. the past ten+ years in men's tennis are widely considered golden age of tennis because 3 best players of all time are playing against each other. it's an amazing time. in contrast, tennis was boring when federer or sampras were winning everything. similarly in women's tennis, navratilova vs evert was better time than today when any of the top 50 players has a shot at GS only to never be seen again.


More than 40 years following tennis. I hated when quiet little Everett won everything. Fwiw, Navratilova was treated a bit like the Williams sisters because of her looks and her sexuality. It was sad that she was one of the most critical of them when they played.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 11:14     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned but there was a sports commentator on the radio and she mentioned a video that is circulating. The video is of this official and his reactions to men who have acted out. The video apparently shows men behavior that was as bad and worse than Serena but no foul/penalty was called. Not one.

There have been tennis players, men and women, who have come to her defense. This is not to excuse all of her behavior. But the fact is that she was treated differently.

I am frankly tired of women being labeled as loud, obnoxious, hysterical, bitchy, etc. when they act in a manner other than a doormat. She stood up for herself as male players have. She was penalize and they were not (by this official). I'm guessing this guy did not like this little lady challenging him. That's sexism plain and simple.


no, she was not treated differently. please stop spreading a third-hand information (you heard someone said there was a video. seriously?).


NP here. Where do you get off. YES SHE WAS TREATED DIFFERENTLY. YES IT WAS SEXISM.

You don't know professional tennis if you say she wasn't treated differently. They never, ever, call coaching and definitely would not do it in a major final. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. The guys have to go way way over the line or be ranked below top 100 to ever get a point penalty.
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 10:34     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
Anonymous wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned but there was a sports commentator on the radio and she mentioned a video that is circulating. The video is of this official and his reactions to men who have acted out. The video apparently shows men behavior that was as bad and worse than Serena but no foul/penalty was called. Not one.

There have been tennis players, men and women, who have come to her defense. This is not to excuse all of her behavior. But the fact is that she was treated differently.

I am frankly tired of women being labeled as loud, obnoxious, hysterical, bitchy, etc. when they act in a manner other than a doormat. She stood up for herself as male players have. She was penalize and they were not (by this official). I'm guessing this guy did not like this little lady challenging him. That's sexism plain and simple.


no, she was not treated differently. please stop spreading a third-hand information (you heard someone said there was a video. seriously?).
Anonymous
Post 09/11/2018 10:31     Subject: Serena is a bully and a crybaby
I don't know if this has been mentioned but there was a sports commentator on the radio and she mentioned a video that is circulating. The video is of this official and his reactions to men who have acted out. The video apparently shows men behavior that was as bad and worse than Serena but no foul/penalty was called. Not one.

There have been tennis players, men and women, who have come to her defense. This is not to excuse all of her behavior. But the fact is that she was treated differently.

I am frankly tired of women being labeled as loud, obnoxious, hysterical, bitchy, etc. when they act in a manner other than a doormat. She stood up for herself as male players have. She was penalize and they were not (by this official). I'm guessing this guy did not like this little lady challenging him. That's sexism plain and simple.