Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Newsflash -- first generation college applicants (regardless of race) get a huge boost for admissions at top schools. So enough with this poor white man son story.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/hear-our-students/first-generation-students

^ sob story

Yep. As I said previously, affirmative action for black students is not what is keeping poor white kids out of Harvard. We spend a lot of time focused on test scores by race, but I bet if we looked at them by income, we'd see that at any given test score/GPA combo at elite schools, poor kids have higher admission rates than wealthy kids.

You're objectively wrong. The poor black kid has two hooks whilst the poor white kid only has one. So there is an inherent advantage and have you ever looked at the admissions stats that elite colleges post on their websites and tout in their admissions presentations? You see admissions by race proudly trotted out front and center and somewhere down the list is first gen college student which is not a great correlation with income but it's the best proxy that you're going to find.

Tell that poor white kid to go to free community college. Problem solved.

Or try his luck at a HBCU.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Newsflash -- first generation college applicants (regardless of race) get a huge boost for admissions at top schools. So enough with this poor white man son story.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/hear-our-students/first-generation-students

^ sob story

Yep. As I said previously, affirmative action for black students is not what is keeping poor white kids out of Harvard. We spend a lot of time focused on test scores by race, but I bet if we looked at them by income, we'd see that at any given test score/GPA combo at elite schools, poor kids have higher admission rates than wealthy kids.

You're objectively wrong. The poor black kid has two hooks whilst the poor white kid only has one. So there is an inherent advantage and have you ever looked at the admissions stats that elite colleges post on their websites and tout in their admissions presentations? You see admissions by race proudly trotted out front and center and somewhere down the list is first gen college student which is not a great correlation with income but it's the best proxy that you're going to find.

Tell that poor white kid to go to free community college. Problem solved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Newsflash -- first generation college applicants (regardless of race) get a huge boost for admissions at top schools. So enough with this poor white man son story.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/hear-our-students/first-generation-students

^ sob story

Yep. As I said previously, affirmative action for black students is not what is keeping poor white kids out of Harvard. We spend a lot of time focused on test scores by race, but I bet if we looked at them by income, we'd see that at any given test score/GPA combo at elite schools, poor kids have higher admission rates than wealthy kids.

You're objectively wrong. The poor black kid has two hooks whilst the poor white kid only has one. So there is an inherent advantage and have you ever looked at the admissions stats that elite colleges post on their websites and tout in their admissions presentations? You see admissions by race proudly trotted out front and center and somewhere down the list is first gen college student which is not a great correlation with income but it's the best proxy that you're going to find.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This may be a stupid question, but will HBCUs be prohibited from taking race into account for admissions?

I hate to answer a question with a question but humor me...
Why would little Johnny want to go to North Carolina A&T when he's got the grades and test scores to go to Duke and no longer has to worry about being shunned in favor of some minority applicant?
Why would little Jenny's parents want their daughter to go to North Carolina A&T when in all likelihood they're "uncomfortable" with the idea of their blue eyed angel being around all those "thugs" and "rapists"?

This is actually interesting and quite telling, when you consider that some HBCUs have stellar academic reputations (e.g. Howard). As college admissions to elite schools have gotten tighter across the board, have HBCUs seen an uptick in white applicants? I don't know, but it would be interesting to find out.

Anonymous wrote:This may be a stupid question, but will HBCUs be prohibited from taking race into account for admissions?

Honestly and you may be surprised by this...but they generally do NOT take race into account.

Anonymous wrote:This may be a stupid question, but will HBCUs be prohibited from taking race into account for admissions?

I don't know the answer to this question. Even so, I don't know how much HBCUs actually take race into account. You don't have to be black to be admitted to Howard (not sure of the policies at other HBCUs).

Anonymous wrote:This may be a stupid question, but will HBCUs be prohibited from taking race into account for admissions?

I hate to answer a question with a question but humor me...
Why would little Johnny want to go to North Carolina A&T when he's got the grades and test scores to go to Duke and no longer has to worry about being shunned in favor of some minority applicant?
Why would little Jenny's parents want their daughter to go to North Carolina A&T when in all likelihood they're "uncomfortable" with the idea of their blue eyed angel being around all those "thugs" and "rapists"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Newsflash -- first generation college applicants (regardless of race) get a huge boost for admissions at top schools. So enough with this poor white man son story.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/hear-our-students/first-generation-students

^ sob story

Yep. As I said previously, affirmative action for black students is not what is keeping poor white kids out of Harvard. We spend a lot of time focused on test scores by race, but I bet if we looked at them by income, we'd see that at any given test score/GPA combo at elite schools, poor kids have higher admission rates than wealthy kids.

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You are good at making assumptions. I don't have to be black to make a case for Affirmative Action. Holocaust is bad but not nearly as bad as slavery which went on for centuries and killed millions of blacks and deprived them the very humanity you take for granted. It is much much worse than Holocaust. No one said everything is someone else's fault. But slavery, jim crow, cop shooting of unarmed blacks, harsh criminal justice reserved for minor black crimes are all on the hands of systemic racism.

oh

Here we go again. Let's see whose history is worse - descendants of slaves or descendants of the Holocaust.

lynchings
gas chambers
rapes
brutal force
starvation
child labor
breaking families apart

You must be very competitive, PP. but for all the wrong reasons . . .

Um and how many rapes, murders, and robberies have blacks committed against whites? They commute violent crimes against white demonstrators FAR more frequently than whites against blacks. So we should reward them?

Well, if we're trying to keep score, AAs have a long way to catch up. Look out, whitey.

Most AAs have slaveowner ancestry as well. This is something that many AAs seem to conveniently forget about whenever they can beat white people over the head about slavery.

This is the typical defense of the coward. A heinous crime is justified because someone else committed it too. And it's such an exaggeration that blacks were slave owners in America. Even if it was true it pales in comparison to the scale of white slave owners.

Did someone say that slavery was justified? And you are clearly not understanding the point. The point is not that some "blacks were slave owners." The point is that many blacks like to point out that their ancestors were raped by cruel white slaveowners, while conveniently omitting the logical implication that this means that they themselves are descendants of those cruel white slaveowners and are in no position to be condemning other people's ancestry.

So are you saying if a black man rapes your wife and your daughter then your progeny will claim black ancestry as as theirs and celebrate it.

It doesn't matter what they "claim" or "celebrate." If you are the product of a rape, your father is a rapist. It doesn't matter if you "claim" or "celebrate" him. He is your father. You may not like him, but you are his descendent and there is nothing you can do about it. If your white great-great-great grandfather raped your black great-great-great grandmother, you are just as much a descendant of the white rapist as the black victim. He is just as much as part of your family as she is.

My point is not that descendants of bad people should feel ashamed or guilty. I'm just pointing out the common hypocrisy that so much of black identity is based on "white oppressors enslaved/raped by ancestors" when you are often literally descended from those white oppressors yourself. If white people are implicated by what their ancestors did, then so are you.

That would be fine and dandy if the issue at hand where how to fill out the family tree or who to research on ancestry.com. But the issue at hand is whether there is a lasting legacy for descendants of slavery. Are you arguing that people of mixed race have never been victims of discrimination because they can say to the cop who stops them or the bus driver who sends them to the back of the bus or neighborhood association that won't sell them a home, "I'm actually part white, so lucky me! Your discriminatory rules don't apply!" ??

I'm not denying that AAs have suffered post-slavery. I'm just pointing out the fallacy when AAs try to play the "your ancestors enslaved/raped my ancestors" card. Those are your ancestors too. I am aware that AAs have suffered from discrimination long after emancipation.

PP here. They aren't my ancestors because my ancestors are poor whites from New England. So I don't typically play that "card." At any rate, given that you think that AAs have suffered from discrimination long after emancipation, it seems a little pedantic to be fixated on this "card." What's the point? Do you just want to hear descendants of slaves say, "Yes, I have rapists in my background?" How does that change or advance a conversation about the legacy of slavery?

Anonymous wrote:Newsflash -- first generation college applicants (regardless of race) get a huge boost for admissions at top schools. So enough with this poor white man son story.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/hear-our-students/first-generation-students

^ sob story

Any white male who feels entitled to a free college education should move to a state that offers free tuition.

Tennessee
Rhode Island
San Francisco
New York
Oregon
Louisiana

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/pf/college/states-tuition-free-college/index.html

This may be a stupid question, but will HBCUs be prohibited from taking race into account for admissions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It pretty simple.

Elite schools have figured out that the White privileged class is not always the best source of genius, talent, creativity and innovation. These things come in many forms and from may places. Holistic admission policies are just better at identifying folks with these factors.

This thread kind of bears out the selfish nature of the argument. Not one White anti-AA has argued about why their kids benefit the campus or what their kids bring to the table that contributes to the educational experience of those around them. All they talk about is opportunities that are being take from them - that they are being cheated. The Pro AA crowd talks in terms of a more diverse campus and that resulting in a positive experience for all students.

I hear a lot of the pro-AA crowd (speaking of a system intended to benefit blacks, since AA could be based on income, which I prefer) talk about cops killing blacks and the legacy of slavery, and defending preferential admissions treatment for those reasons. I haven't heard a lot about diversity resulting in a positive experience for all students.

OTOH, I hear a lot of the anti-AA crowd talk about giving poor people more of chance, white or black. That's what I support.

This is kind of silly. There is no way of to know the full extent of what pro and anti people are thinking or believe. It is not incumbent upon posters to state every position they hold on every issue.

But FTR, I am a white upper middle class woman, raised middle class but with working class roots (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins), who has white (male) children and who is pro-AA; who believes I and my kids have benefited from diverse work, educational, and living environments; who believes that racism still has an insidious effect on opportunity and achievement (educational, professional, etc); who does not believe AA policies have a material impact on the opportunities of others; who believes that even if some people are negatively impacted by AA policies, that cost is one our society should bear as we try to address the long-lasting effects of slavery and Jim Crow; who also believes that income inequality and lack of income mobility has become a serious problem that needs to be addressed with its own kind of "affirmative action"; who also believes that colleges and universities actually DO practice a kind of affirmative action for kids from poor families*; and who believes that we can work to address both problems at the same time, because AA policies for people of color aren't a significant or important factor in income inequality. Still, in my previous posts I have focused mostly on the issue of the legacy of slavery, since denial of this very real problem really presses my buttons.

There, have I left anything out or does that cover it?

*Isn't this what NoVA parents are always screaming about WRT UVA admitting too many kids from poor, backwaters of the state?

Newsflash -- first generation college applicants (regardless of race) get a huge boost for admissions at top schools. So enough with this poor white man son story.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/hear-our-students/first-generation-students

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Anonymous wrote:I encourage all African-American's in this thread who are pointlessly debating with many posters who are stomping and cheering in celebration of this recent shift in focus by the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division to consider the following...

This recent release of Segregation 2.0 could actually be beneficial for HBCU's as threats of litigation, costly reporting requirements or federal funding reductions could compel predominantly white Ivy League and large state universities to reduce the number of minority entrants, which could bolster enrollment at highly selective HBCU's like Howard University and Spelman College, and large public HBCU's like North Carolina A&T and Florida A&M.

Don't believe the hype people. Affirmative action being picked off by judicial conservatism at the highest levels may seem like a bad idea, but for the schools that exclusively serve the people whom will most be affected by its demise, it may reintroduce HBCU value to the nation and world. #LookForTheSilverLining

Thank you. Both my parents attended HBCUs because they were forbidden from attending the flagship universities in their state. I attended a HBCU grad school BY CHOICE. If you think back on it, aside from the Ivy League, these schools attracted the best and the brightest because they were most welcome at these schools. I want to see kids go wherever they want and do not want to see them arbitrarily shut out of schools - but I wish more would see the benefit of HBCU's.

Yeah, my dad was forbidden from attending an Ivy in the 1950s. They had a strict quota on Jews.

Yea, well strict quota by definition indicates that some were allowed. Not the case with my parents. Anyways, I am not one who engages in competition about whose people had it worse. You have the other PP for that. LOL

Kudos to you for not engaging in the competition about whose people had it worse. That pointless debate is both frivolous and futile because it is entirely subjective and totally irrelevant. My personal take on this whole issue regarding the investigation of universities to eradicate possibly anti-white affirmative action policies is GOOD! I'm not stomping and cheering in celebration like so many others who see this as a pivotal victory in the battle to bring an end to minority "hand outs" - but I am encouraged by the inevitable progress that will come about as a result.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I genuinely believe the inevitable outcome from all this will be the rise of HBCU's. Consider this, in 2014 for the first time the nation’s K-12 student population was majority minority. With predominantly white Ivy League and large state universities deliberately reducing the number of minority entrants it stands to reason that this growing populace of black and Hispanic high school graduates will eagerly embrace institutions like Howard, Hampton, Morehouse, Spelman, Fisk, Florida A&M, Tuskegee, Xavier, etc. This increased enrollment will result in the hiring of more minority staff and faculty who often find themselves shut out of predominantly white colleges and universities. That means more jobs and more opportunity for advancement.

Another consequence of more minorities attending HBCU's to consider is the significant cultural and community impact it will have on this up and coming generation. Malcolm X once said, “America's strategy today is the same strategy as that which was used in the past by the colonial powers: divide and conquer.” That strategy will be weakened significantly when this up and coming generation of minorities as opposed to being ostracized and overlooked as outcasts on predominantly white campuses finds themselves empowered and allied as classmates, alumni, and colleagues from their connections on the campuses of HBCU’s. That shared experience and increased awareness of one another will put these minorities in a much more advantageous position in an increasingly diverse world than their white counterparts who will undoubtedly find themselves lacking in exposure or awareness of other ethnicities.

It is my opinion that much like original segregation sparked the greatest unified effort by blacks to come together and rise above, this new incarnation of Segregation 2.0 will have the same positive impact and will ultimately bring about the changes within the black community to propel us even further forward.