Anonymous
Post 04/16/2014 08:18     Subject: Re:Why are people so upset about Common Core?


All the Common Core supporters here are incredibly naive. Go to testingtalk.org and look at the teacher comments on how inappropriate the tests are.

And I agree with a PP, you CANNOT separate the curriculum, the standards, and the testing. They are all linked through money that comes from the testing. TO get the Fed Funds you have to use the standardized tests. And the fed funds is the ONLY REASON states adopted Common Core standards -- sight unseen.


Anonymous
Post 04/16/2014 06:57     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Follow the money. The reason NY feels they've been duped is because - they were.


New York State wasn't duped. Their department of education decided what curriculum they wanted to have, and designed that curriculum. That is how our systemn of education works -- each state designs its own curriculum. THey chose something quite ambitious and it was far more than what was required by Common Core standards.


Again, you are separating the standards from the curriculum. I would like you to specifically show me how the standards over-reach common core, how they are over ambitious. Use examples from the workbooks to prove your point, and show me how they go well beyond the common core standards. It's time for you to prove your rhetoric.

Please also provide examples of what you feel would be appropriate way to meet those standards alongside the over-reaching New York standards.

I'm asking you to do this because you seem to feel you know more than the educators and administrators in NY, and are calling them liars.



Link to New York State standards for social studies:

http://www.p12.nysed.gov/ciai/socst/

Link to Common Core standards for social studies:

[blank space here]

That's because there aren't any Common Core standards for social studies.

(I'm not the PP you were talking to.)
Anonymous
Post 04/16/2014 06:56     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:
What power do I have to change the workbook or choose a better curriculum? None. The state and local governments chose them. You're right, we don't have a common curriculum and that's by design. Because the goal is to create chaos so it can be fixed with a common standard nationwide curriculum. I'm sure that would be fine with you, because you don't see the downfall.


You're right. You have no power. The only thing you can do is complain about it anonymously on an anonymous internet message board.

Or, alternatively, you can go out there and get involved and actually try to do something about this problem that you consider so important.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 22:31     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
I would also like you to tell me the perfect way to implement the CC standards. Please tell me what you would do, how you would do it. I would like sample question and I would like you to tell me specifically how you would test.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 22:28     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Follow the money. The reason NY feels they've been duped is because - they were.


New York State wasn't duped. Their department of education decided what curriculum they wanted to have, and designed that curriculum. That is how our systemn of education works -- each state designs its own curriculum. THey chose something quite ambitious and it was far more than what was required by Common Core standards.


Again, you are separating the standards from the curriculum. I would like you to specifically show me how the standards over-reach common core, how they are over ambitious. Use examples from the workbooks to prove your point, and show me how they go well beyond the common core standards. It's time for you to prove your rhetoric.

Please also provide examples of what you feel would be appropriate way to meet those standards alongside the over-reaching New York standards.

I'm asking you to do this because you seem to feel you know more than the educators and administrators in NY, and are calling them liars.

Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 22:23     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Again (and again and again), the devil is in the details. You cannot separate the standards, the workbooks, the curriculum. They are all part and parcel.


Again and again (and again) you CAN separate the standards from the workbooks and the curriculum.

Because the standards are what are being adopted. Not the workbooks. There can be numerous workbooks. Schools can choose ones which work for their students, or design their own.

Standards are the same for all; the curricula can be different.

Here's the deal: if you don't like the curricula your school district has chosen; if you don't like the workbook your child's teacher is using... don't say "I hate common core". Say "this workbook is no good. It isn't helping students meet the objectives. Find a better workbook, choose a better curriculum".


If CC is going to work, there would be more cohesion. This is more of "Well it's not working THIS way so the we, the federal calvary, are going to have to ride in and standardize all the curricula" Wait for it.


No, if there were more cohesion with Common Core, then you wouldn't see just the same standards everywhere, but you would see mandatory common curriculum. We DON'T have a common Curriculum and that is why you are seeing some good ones, some crappy ones; good workbooks, crappy workbooks.

I think Singapore Math is a great math curriculum and would be overjoyed to have a Common National Math Curriculum as set by Singapore Math (the real one, not the fake one used here in the US in many places). But that's never gonna happen... Imagine the whole country using the exact same textbook (and a good one!)


What power do I have to change the workbook or choose a better curriculum? None. The state and local governments chose them. You're right, we don't have a common curriculum and that's by design. Because the goal is to create chaos so it can be fixed with a common standard nationwide curriculum. I'm sure that would be fine with you, because you don't see the downfall.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 22:16     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:
Follow the money. The reason NY feels they've been duped is because - they were.


New York State wasn't duped. Their department of education decided what curriculum they wanted to have, and designed that curriculum. That is how our systemn of education works -- each state designs its own curriculum. THey chose something quite ambitious and it was far more than what was required by Common Core standards.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 22:11     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:Again (and again and again), the devil is in the details. You cannot separate the standards, the workbooks, the curriculum. They are all part and parcel.


Again and again (and again) you CAN separate the standards from the workbooks and the curriculum.

Because the standards are what are being adopted. Not the workbooks. There can be numerous workbooks. Schools can choose ones which work for their students, or design their own.

Standards are the same for all; the curricula can be different.

Here's the deal: if you don't like the curricula your school district has chosen; if you don't like the workbook your child's teacher is using... don't say "I hate common core". Say "this workbook is no good. It isn't helping students meet the objectives. Find a better workbook, choose a better curriculum".


If CC is going to work, there would be more cohesion. This is more of "Well it's not working THIS way so the we, the federal calvary, are going to have to ride in and standardize all the curricula" Wait for it.


No, if there were more cohesion with Common Core, then you wouldn't see just the same standards everywhere, but you would see mandatory common curriculum. We DON'T have a common Curriculum and that is why you are seeing some good ones, some crappy ones; good workbooks, crappy workbooks.

I think Singapore Math is a great math curriculum and would be overjoyed to have a Common National Math Curriculum as set by Singapore Math (the real one, not the fake one used here in the US in many places). But that's never gonna happen... Imagine the whole country using the exact same textbook (and a good one!)
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 21:10     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Cavalry. Not calvary. Calvary is a place in Jerusalem. That's at least the second time you've typed that. It's not the only way you're repeating yourself, either.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 18:45     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Again (and again and again), the devil is in the details. You cannot separate the standards, the workbooks, the curriculum. They are all part and parcel. If CC is going to work, there would be more cohesion. This is more of "Well it's not working THIS way so the we, the federal calvary, are going to have to ride in and standardize all the curricula" Wait for it.

Remember this?

"If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"

People are not complaining about the broad standards, They are complaining about the way it was conceived, why it was conceived, and what it means for education in the future.

Follow the money. The reason NY feels they've been duped is because - they were.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 10:01     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Saw a couple friends over the weekend who are teachers in Massachusetts. When I asked about CC, they shrugged and said it really wasn't that different from what they were doing before. But they could understand how parents/teachers living in states with previously less rigorous standards may be less enthusiastic about the changes (I'm the PP with a SIL in a southern state who is really against CC).


My brother and SIL live in MA and saw such a difference that they called me to ask about it. They tend not to follow this stuff and were very upset at what they were seeing, esp. in mathematics.


It might do them well to follow the ACTUAL education discussion, instead probably just hearing the uninformed, conspiratorial FUD from the extreme right and left wings.


I gave them the ACTUAL education discussion - it's all over the news as the initial testing comes in. The reality isn't living up to the hype, and they are mired right now in the reality.


If the "actual" was anecdotes and pictures of an inscrutable "Common Core Worksheet" - basically what we've seen on this message board - then you didn't give them the "actual".


I used the NYT and WP as references. I assume they pass the liberal litmus test?


The NYT may pass a litmus test. But it has been doing as piss poor a job at reporting on Common Core as everyone else.

Here's on article about push back on Common Core in NYS.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/17/nyregion/new-york-early-champion-of-common-core-standards-joins-critics.html?_r=0

Note that the examples given include a 2nd grade teacher teaching about ancient Greece, and a first grade teacher teaching about the difference in farming techniques between Ancient Mesopotamia, and ancient Greece. NOT required topics under Common Core (which has no specific content requirements in history). The NYT should have made it clear that the teachers and principals and parents were complaining about the curriculum that Mew York State decided to implement above and beyond what Common Core required.

The complaints also were about the decision of NYS Dept of Ed to go ahead with its own tests, not wait for the PARCC.



Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 07:04     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And your tax dollars are buying these textbooks; if the state is buying textbooks because they are CC aligned and the material in them is incorrect, then you should be VERY concerned.


There are mistakes in text books all the time. Have you been crusading to fix them over the years or only the new ones that are "CC aligned?"


There are mistakes and there are re-writes. The latter falls into that category. There is nothing that indicates it's a mistake, like a spelling error, typo, etc.


Whew, I'm impressed that you're reading all these books cover to cover! Besides their treatment of the second amendment, what else don't you agree with?
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2014 07:02     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Saw a couple friends over the weekend who are teachers in Massachusetts. When I asked about CC, they shrugged and said it really wasn't that different from what they were doing before. But they could understand how parents/teachers living in states with previously less rigorous standards may be less enthusiastic about the changes (I'm the PP with a SIL in a southern state who is really against CC).


My brother and SIL live in MA and saw such a difference that they called me to ask about it. They tend not to follow this stuff and were very upset at what they were seeing, esp. in mathematics.


Differences compared to what though? The last time they had a kid in a particular grade? Comparing what their kid is doing now to what they were doing last year in a different grade isn't really apples to apples. At least with teachers, they generally are teaching the same grade from year to year.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2014 22:45     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Look at the last one. Define it.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2014 22:44     Subject: Why are people so upset about Common Core?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Saw a couple friends over the weekend who are teachers in Massachusetts. When I asked about CC, they shrugged and said it really wasn't that different from what they were doing before. But they could understand how parents/teachers living in states with previously less rigorous standards may be less enthusiastic about the changes (I'm the PP with a SIL in a southern state who is really against CC).


My brother and SIL live in MA and saw such a difference that they called me to ask about it. They tend not to follow this stuff and were very upset at what they were seeing, esp. in mathematics.


It might do them well to follow the ACTUAL education discussion, instead probably just hearing the uninformed, conspiratorial FUD from the extreme right and left wings.


I gave them the ACTUAL education discussion - it's all over the news as the initial testing comes in. The reality isn't living up to the hype, and they are mired right now in the reality.


If the "actual" was anecdotes and pictures of an inscrutable "Common Core Worksheet" - basically what we've seen on this message board - then you didn't give them the "actual".


I used the NYT and WP as references. I assume they pass the liberal litmus test?