DC is in 5th and we just made the decision not to return for 6th.

We aren't IB for Deal, can't afford a private and have begun house hunting in MoCo. Much as I'd love to see BASIS succeed, I don't feel like an appealing enough middle or hs experience is in the works for him. Before you boosters send me off with the usual curt buh-bye, I'll mention that my low key kid has done well at Johns Hopkins CTY (expensive for us) for math, leading me to suspect that he's "math gifted," whatever that means.

Our issue isn't with math instruction, it's the chaotic, amateur hour feel of the school and cramped facilities. Although I've been impressed with the inter-connectedness of the curriculum/teaching, like many here, there are too many young and inexperienced seeming instructors and administrators to keep us happy. And the environment isn't orderly enough for us - the hallways and lunchroom are too rowdy and there are too many tough older kids.

This is awkward, but in talking to other high-SES parents, I feel like too much white flight is heading BASIS' way for the school to soar, yet the staff doesn't see it coming (because they don't have it in AZ?). Not a wave, but a steady trickle that will cause most high-SES families to peel off before AP classes, like they do at all other city high schools. And we're concerned about who will replace kids who leave.

Basis just isn't what we're looking for, which surely won't bother anybody but us, so good luck to the rest of you.

Anonymous wrote:Curious about Boston Latin: what made it great and how can we get some of that here?

Exam school fed by strong middle school programs, mostly the test-in or G/T type, drawing in large upper-middle-class contingent. Take a test to apply, and make the cut or don't. Get a small break on the cut-off if you're low-SES kid but only a small one. Pride stemming from 300 years of history. Orderly environment, social graces emphasized, really rowdy kids booted. Lessons learned from Boston's forced busing days guide administrative decisions - cater to affluent families because you need them to thrive. Graduates leading happy, prosperous lives coming back to talk about their careers and mentoring students. Strong alum network. Experienced teachers ranging in age from early 20s to near retirement, not a gaggle of poorly paid 20-somethings. Not a charter, per pupil allocation high. Great facilities in good neighborhood. No social promotion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For once and for all: there is much more to life than Ivy League. Puuuulleeeeease. A great education and a full and successful life is possible without a college degree, let alone an Ivy League. Get over yourselves.

One thing I really like about the classical curriculum is that there is a moral and ethical grounding to it. As in, what does it mean to be a citizen of our society? What are our responsibilities to ourselves and to others? What are the roots of our society and from whence come our privileges?

Appears from comments on these boards that some of you ivy leaguers and PhDs could have used more of that kind of education.

Sure, if your sights are no higher than pumping gas, stocking shelves, busing tables, flipping burgers. Nothing wrong with that, and the market certainly needs people like that - and most of them don't pay terribly great money. But, we happen to live in a very unique environment, filled with government jobs dealing with major national programs and national policy, IT and tech companies, think tanks, NGOs, analysts, and so on - many excellent opportunities at $100k and up abound - and virtually ALL of those require a degree.

Bull. You are so out of touch with the rest of your country and your world. Please re examine your priorities. Are the people who pump your gas, stock your shelves, clean your house, grow and pick your food worthless? Dishonorable? Failures? Depressed and miserable because they aren't YOU. Are YOU happy, fulfilled and living an honorable life? Is it all due to your Ivy League degree?

Get over yourself, and re-read what was posted:

"Nothing wrong with that, and the market certainly needs people like that - and most of them don't pay terribly great money."

Nothing in that says "dishonorable, worthless, failure, et cetera". PP just says there are good opportunities in the area, so why not pursue them?

Anonymous wrote:To the pp talking about self-selection being a poor modus operandi for charter schools like Latin: I can understand if your criticism lies with poor teaching that leads to poor test scores. But to say that these public charters shouldn't accept kids who want to attend (and who win lottery seats) but are behind or just not academically gifted seems awful to me! Bass-ackwards! Sure the aggregate test scores will reflect lagging students, but is that really a reason to not send your academically average or above-average kid? The experience of attending these good schools is, and should be, open to all comers. And if you disagree, I'd like to know what you, yes you, plan to do to improve the neighborhood schools of the "unacceptable" children. This strikes me as the height of entitled, ignorant, and cold-hearted of attitudes. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Alternatives have been discussed here -

Social promotion: NOT working, as kids are graduating from DCPS who are barely literate or capable of math.

Self-selection: Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't - some schools do well with it, others do not.

Exam-based admission: Works, but is highly exclusive and doesn't give kids who may have intellect, will and capability but who haven't had the proper preparation a chance.

Comprehensive exams: A viable medium between self-selection/social promotion vs. exam-based, as incoming students are given a chance to try it rather than never having had a chance in the first place. Incoming 5th graders at BASIS do not have comps, and won't until 6th grade. But, throughout 5th and 6th grade, teachers and parents will have a good sense of where the student stands even before comps, so there's plenty of opportunity for the student to seek out tutoring or other remediation to get up to speed. And, at 6th grade, if they don't pass the comps on the first try, they can study over the summer and have another shot at it at the end of summer. That's a full 2 and a half years for them to get their acts together. Incoming at 6th grade and above, it's a year and a half to get on track. Beyond that, there's really not much excuse or grounds for complaining.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For once and for all: there is much more to life than Ivy League. Puuuulleeeeease. A great education and a full and successful life is possible without a college degree, let alone an Ivy League. Get over yourselves.

One thing I really like about the classical curriculum is that there is a moral and ethical grounding to it. As in, what does it mean to be a citizen of our society? What are our responsibilities to ourselves and to others? What are the roots of our society and from whence come our privileges?

Appears from comments on these boards that some of you ivy leaguers and PhDs could have used more of that kind of education.

Sure, if your sights are no higher than pumping gas, stocking shelves, busing tables, flipping burgers. Nothing wrong with that, and the market certainly needs people like that - and most of them don't pay terribly great money. But, we happen to live in a very unique environment, filled with government jobs dealing with major national programs and national policy, IT and tech companies, think tanks, NGOs, analysts, and so on - many excellent opportunities at $100k and up abound - and virtually ALL of those require a degree.

Bull. You are so out of touch with the rest of your country and your world. Please re examine your priorities. Are the people who pump your gas, stock your shelves, clean your house, grow and pick your food worthless? Dishonorable? Failures? Depressed and miserable because they aren't YOU. Are YOU happy, fulfilled and living an honorable life? Is it all due to your Ivy League degree?

There are going to be some percentage of kids who will catch up, will thrive from the intensive tutoring and I suspect it will be more than a handful. And I'm hopeful that in an environment where using your brains is 'cool', a substantial number who had to work to keep up a punkass demeanor may find it a gift to be able to drop that ruse and just start enjoying learning. Call me an optimist but I've seen indications.

Anonymous wrote:To the pp talking about self-selection being a poor modus operandi for charter schools like Latin: I can understand if your criticism lies with poor teaching that leads to poor test scores. But to say that these public charters shouldn't accept kids who want to attend (and who win lottery seats) but are behind or just not academically gifted seems awful to me! Bass-ackwards! Sure the aggregate test scores will reflect lagging students, but is that really a reason to not send your academically average or above-average kid? The experience of attending these good schools is, and should be, open to all comers. And if you disagree, I'd like to know what you, yes you, plan to do to improve the neighborhood schools of the "unacceptable" children. This strikes me as the height of entitled, ignorant, and cold-hearted of attitudes. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

I think this post is naive and backward. It's magical thinking to think that kids who are behind or not academically gifted will somehow by osmosis just catch up and perform as well as more academically gifted students if only they just sit in the same room. To catch up, they would need intensive tutoring and remediation - but chances are, a combination of factors will keep that from happening - child doesn't want to go with that program, parents not willing to make the investment, and so on - and I say this because those factors probably already are contributing to the student being behind in the first place. And, how is it suddenly the responsibility of the charters to fix failing DCPS schools? Instead of being angry with charters, your anger should be directed at DCPS for failing.

I know people that started out flipping burgers, and now they own a few franchise stores. There are million of smart people, that have never been to college, and are doing fine. Money is not everything. Remember, you can take it with you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the pp talking about self-selection being a poor modus operandi for charter schools like Latin: I can understand if your criticism lies with poor teaching that leads to poor test scores. But to say that these public charters shouldn't accept kids who want to attend (and who win lottery seats) but are behind or just not academically gifted seems awful to me! Bass-ackwards! Sure the aggregate test scores will reflect lagging students, but is that really a reason to not send your academically average or above-average kid? The experience of attending these good schools is, and should be, open to all comers. And if you disagree, I'd like to know what you, yes you, plan to do to improve the neighborhood schools of the "unacceptable" children. This strikes me as the height of entitled, ignorant, and cold-hearted of attitudes. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Different PP but I'm certainly not hearing the height of entitled etc. attitudes, I'm hearing common sense. Love thy neighbor's brilliant low SES kid and shake your head.

We left Latin for a private after 8th mainly because standards weren't high enough for our Ivy League material DC1 (dad attended an Ivy). Her most academic low-SES former classmates would clearly be much better off at privates, too, but haven't found scholarships.

They cold-heartedness comes in keeping poor kids in a second-rate school without appealing alternatives. Second-rate is obviously MUCH better than the Ward 7 and 8 schools they fled, and probably Banneker and Walls, but Wash Latin isn't Boston Latin, a public exam school where standards are a good deal higher. How do I know this? I graduated from Boston Latin, coming from a lower-middle-class family, and remain active as an alum. Not all kids are a good fit for all public schools and programs I'm not sure if DC2 will be a good fit for Basis, we'll see.

Blame DCPS for those second-rate schools. They get more money per student than virtually any district in the nation, and it all evaporates into bureaucracy and administrivia rather than reaching the students. More money isn't the answer, better management is needed.

Anonymous wrote:For once and for all: there is much more to life than Ivy League. Puuuulleeeeease. A great education and a full and successful life is possible without a college degree, let alone an Ivy League. Get over yourselves.

One thing I really like about the classical curriculum is that there is a moral and ethical grounding to it. As in, what does it mean to be a citizen of our society? What are our responsibilities to ourselves and to others? What are the roots of our society and from whence come our privileges?

Appears from comments on these boards that some of you ivy leaguers and PhDs could have used more of that kind of education.

Sure, if your sights are no higher than pumping gas, stocking shelves, busing tables, flipping burgers. Nothing wrong with that, and the market certainly needs people like that - and most of them don't pay terribly great money. But, we happen to live in a very unique environment, filled with government jobs dealing with major national programs and national policy, IT and tech companies, think tanks, NGOs, analysts, and so on - many excellent opportunities at $100k and up abound - and virtually ALL of those require a degree.

For once and for all: there is much more to life than Ivy League. Puuuulleeeeease. A great education and a full and successful life is possible without a college degree, let alone an Ivy League. Get over yourselves.

One thing I really like about the classical curriculum is that there is a moral and ethical grounding to it. As in, what does it mean to be a citizen of our society? What are our responsibilities to ourselves and to others? What are the roots of our society and from whence come our privileges?

Appears from comments on these boards that some of you ivy leaguers and PhDs could have used more of that kind of education.

Curious about Boston Latin: what made it great and how can we get some of that here?

Anonymous wrote:To the pp talking about self-selection being a poor modus operandi for charter schools like Latin: I can understand if your criticism lies with poor teaching that leads to poor test scores. But to say that these public charters shouldn't accept kids who want to attend (and who win lottery seats) but are behind or just not academically gifted seems awful to me! Bass-ackwards! Sure the aggregate test scores will reflect lagging students, but is that really a reason to not send your academically average or above-average kid? The experience of attending these good schools is, and should be, open to all comers. And if you disagree, I'd like to know what you, yes you, plan to do to improve the neighborhood schools of the "unacceptable" children. This strikes me as the height of entitled, ignorant, and cold-hearted of attitudes. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Different PP but I'm certainly not hearing the height of entitled etc. attitudes, I'm hearing common sense. Love thy neighbor's brilliant low SES kid and shake your head.

We left Latin for a private after 8th mainly because standards weren't high enough for our Ivy League material DC1 (dad attended an Ivy). Her most academic low-SES former classmates would clearly be much better off at privates, too, but haven't found scholarships.

They cold-heartedness comes in keeping poor kids in a second-rate school without appealing alternatives. Second-rate is obviously MUCH better than the Ward 7 and 8 schools they fled, and probably Banneker and Walls, but Wash Latin isn't Boston Latin, a public exam school where standards are a good deal higher. How do I know this? I graduated from Boston Latin, coming from a lower-middle-class family, and remain active as an alum. Not all kids are a good fit for all public schools and programs I'm not sure if DC2 will be a good fit for Basis, we'll see.

To the pp talking about self-selection being a poor modus operandi for charter schools like Latin: I can understand if your criticism lies with poor teaching that leads to poor test scores. But to say that these public charters shouldn't accept kids who want to attend (and who win lottery seats) but are behind or just not academically gifted seems awful to me! Bass-ackwards! Sure the aggregate test scores will reflect lagging students, but is that really a reason to not send your academically average or above-average kid? The experience of attending these good schools is, and should be, open to all comers. And if you disagree, I'd like to know what you, yes you, plan to do to improve the neighborhood schools of the "unacceptable" children. This strikes me as the height of entitled, ignorant, and cold-hearted of attitudes. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Anonymous wrote:The concern I am trying to express is about the bigger picture, not just any one class. I believe that the cumulative academic load placed on students from day 1 at our campus, especially combined with the day to day speed of coverage, is simply not optimal for all but most gifted and dedicated students. It throws kids and parents out of balance, and causes stress, loss of sleep, loss of play time and out of school activities. Can it be managed? Absolutely. But in my opinion at a needless and sad cost. If a kid is thriving doing calculus in 9th grade then great. But colleges don't want or expect that, and nor is it necessarily in the best long term interests of most children emotionally and intellectually to push as far as possible as fast as possible in all subjects at the same time. So it is a matter of opportunity costs and emotional costs of the extremely rigorous content and test based curriculum that upsets me. I am all for elevated expectations, and AP tests are groovy... but not so damn many and not when taking the tests are seen as an ultimate academic end in and of themselves!!!

To any Tucson or other Basis School parents with experience in AZ with the Basis Model, looking down the road a year or two, how does your child manage? The day is long and crammed with note taking, there is 2 hours of studying a night, wake up the next day and repeat. Sounds like work, not school. Did you find that the academic load started off a little easier in 5th grade and then became harder in the following grades? Any other things to watch out for with the Basis Model? The electives sound good on paper but look like just more note taking, kind of sending a message, we are only about academics, leave if you want something else.

Where is the Arizona forum on DCUM, and how come all those Tucson moms aren't logging on to the DC Schools pages here in the meantime to weigh in?