Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Yu Ying parent, but I'm going to ask a Post Education Section writer I know to look into what sounds like a ridiculous arrangement. Let me get this straight, a public Chinese immerson school loved by its parents although it

*doesn't know how many bilingual students it has (or at least won't tell anybody)
*runs non-immersion classes for black kids, yet maintains that all kids selected through its open lottery can handle immersion Chinese
*turns away Chinese speaking students (though it only has a handful?)
*claims that Federal law, the DC City Council, and the Public School Charter School Board wouldn't let it recruit most of the Chinese speaking students it might actually find (doubtful)
*can't compete with private Mandarin schools because its standards are not high enough

growing pains or not, the public may not be amused

Seriously, please go ahead. While you're at it please ask him to figure out who is trying to sink the school, what their agenda is, and whether they belong in an institution.

Media attention to problems at Yu Ying would be welcome. The Federal law on charter schools isn't very well written or thought through, so it doesn't necessarily promote common sense solutions where needed. The school's single open lottery has led to an arrangement that could be perceived as ridiculous, as it has at charter schools across the country. Chinese immersion schools aren't going to be for every kid whose name goes in, and many Chinese-speaking kids should be enrolled where they can be found locally. The fact that both the Federal and DC laws are not designed to deal with these not-so-subtle truths invites scrutiny.

The Wash Times would probably be more interested in the issues than the Post.

I'm already concerned about the DC-CAS 5th grade scores due in in 2013. This is because immersion Chinese may be shown to have hurt kids on the new slow track more than it helped them. The parents are not to blame.

Yu Yang is doing a fine job. Don't sweat the curmudgeons on this board.

Why is it a scandal that Yu Ying is following the law? For those muckrakers out there, LAMB's lottery practices surely deserve more scrutiny than Yu Ying's? Or better yet, can we all just move on, rather than continuing to pick apart schools that are trying their best to educate our children, given the real world we all live in? This horse has been beaten silly by now.

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a Yu Ying parent, but I'm going to ask a Post Education Section writer I know to look into what sounds like a ridiculous arrangement. Let me get this straight, a public Chinese immerson school loved by its parents although it

*doesn't know how many bilingual students it has (or at least won't tell anybody)
*runs non-immersion classes for black kids, yet maintains that all kids selected through its open lottery can handle immersion Chinese
*turns away Chinese speaking students (though it only has a handful?)
*claims that Federal law, the DC City Council, and the Public School Charter School Board wouldn't let it recruit most of the Chinese speaking students it might actually find (doubtful)
*can't compete with private Mandarin schools because its standards are not high enough

growing pains or not, the public may not be amused

Bill Turque won't be able to help you with your reading comprehension skills.

*doesn't have Chinese administrators (due to the international shortage?)

Explain away. He's speaking at a Columbia Univ. club event open to the public on the 9th.

YY parent here. Bring on the Post--perhaps Bill Turque will be able to get through the points that you haven't understood when they've been explained here.

I'm not a Yu Ying parent, but I'm going to ask a Post Education Section writer I know to look into what sounds like a ridiculous arrangement. Let me get this straight, a public Chinese immerson school loved by its parents although it

*doesn't know how many bilingual students it has (or at least won't tell anybody)
*runs non-immersion classes for black kids, yet maintains that all kids selected through its open lottery can handle immersion Chinese
*turns away Chinese speaking students (though it only has a handful?)
*claims that Federal law, the DC City Council, and the Public School Charter School Board wouldn't let it recruit most of the Chinese speaking students it might actually find (doubtful)
*can't compete with private Mandarin schools because its standards are not high enough

growing pains or not, the public may not be amused

Anonymous wrote:We're talking about Federal Law, people. Not DC law, Federal Law.

We're talking about both. Federal Law gives state agencies leeway in developing "curriculum and insitutional practices" for charters. States have used this flexibility to develop language immersion schools with transparent admissions criteria. You see this out West more than on the E. Coast. There is no reason to think that the Feds would move to prevent the DC City Council from amending the DC law, giving immersion schools more control over admissions. The case could be made, but not easily. I expect it will within, say, five years.

There's not reason to expect Congress to interfere in the internal workings of the District of Columbia?

Really?

Have you not been paying attention?

We're talking about Federal Law, people. Not DC law, Federal Law.

We're talking about both. Federal Law gives state agencies leeway in developing "curriculum and insitutional practices" for charters. States have used this flexibility to develop language immersion schools with transparent admissions criteria. You see this out West more than on the E. Coast. There is no reason to think that the Feds would move to prevent the DC City Council from amending the DC law, giving immersion schools more control over admissions. The case could be made, but not easily. I expect it will within, say, five years.

"Dialect support" to learn Mandarin could be something as simple as a teacher who speaks yours offering focused help w/pronunciation. True that dialect speakers need to start learning Mandarin young to avoid a pronounced accent (like the heavy "th" of the Cantonese speakers), and that strong accents aren't appreciated in northern China. But dialect speakers can't avoid a Mandarin accent altogether. I'm a Lafayette parent who speaks Shanghai'ese to my child. I got in to YY but it didn't seem worth the trek when the school's agnostic on the subject of bilingual kids attending. It is what it is. We like our heritage Mandarin class at a private oufit in Silver Spring. A teacher speaks our dialect and the Mandarin standard in the advanced classes for elementary is higher than at YY. I'm not going to call our situation representative, but know other ABCs with similar stories at Brent, Janney etc. For my tax dollars, I'd like YY to at least start tracking how many bilingual families go in the lottery, and why some don't attend even if they could.

Wow. Lots of "snowplow" parents in Washington DC!!

I think that 17:43 points out an important point about language acquisition. There is a standardized, usually written form and then there is what is commonly spoken which differs a lot. Arabic is a lot like this, infact anyone who takes it has to chose between Standard Arabic or a local dialect which can vary quite a bit across the region. No public school is really going to be able to overcome this type of local language issue, they will need to travel and spend time there to really integrate it. Part of the reason so many in Europe can do this is that it is really easy to visit places. My guess is even given their vaunted multilingualism, not many are going to be fluent speakers of any Chinese dialect or even standard version.

Anonymous wrote:The great majority of area Chinese are dialect speakers. Mandarin speakers make up a greater percentage in the NYC area, which attracts a lot of recent immigrants. Mandarin medium schools weren't the norm in most of China until the early 80s, and weren't in HK, Taiwan, Singapore, Macau etc. until the 90s. Only relatively recent immigrants generally speak Mandarin well. Dialect parents like to see structured dialect to Mandarin support. If more Chinese speaking families get involved at YY they'll ask for that type of instruction.

I grew up in Taiwan speaking Mandarin and two other dialects. Mandarin has been the official language in Taiwanese schools since my parents' generation. There are SEVEN major dialect groups - each with a multitude of sub-dialects. I don't expect the school to provide dialect to Mandarin support.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the PSCSB IS OPEN to pushing to tweak the law to help the immersion schools as a group. Not radically reinvent the law, modify it slightly.

Curious, what makes you think that?

That's hilarious. Just how much sway do you think the DC PCSB has in Congress, when Eleanor Holmes Norton doesn't even have a vote? We're talking about Federal Law, people. Not DC law, Federal Law.

Why is this so hard to understand?