Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who doesn’t realize saying this is potentially going to ruffle some feathers has low EQ.

So the choices are you knowingly say things that are going to make some people feel a certain kind of way and you don’t care or you have low EQ. So I’m not offended but then I form an opinion of you probably.

So many people have low EQ though -- I've had to stop holding it against people because it's so common. I agree it's a bit time deaf and if she thought about it she should realize it's offensive. But I've also heard working moms say insanely offensive things about SAHMs -- see half the comments in this thread.
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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

Yes it’s rude and said to be deliberately hurtful. I stayed at home but not ready on purpose, and I envy moms who got to work and had great childcare. Honestly they all seem happier and less burnt out because parenting requires balance. Just ignore anyone using this phrasing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

Because a kid is "raised" by the age of 5? Is that how it works? There is nothing left to do after the age of 5? And where are all those daycare employees after the kid starts elementary school? if they were "raising kids" wouldn't they need to stay involved? Shouldn't they be paying bills and making sure the kid has shelter, clothing, goes to school, does their homework, has a moral compass?

No what people like you don't want to admit, is that the first few years are basic caregiving and essentially any kind and normal person who likes kids is equally as good as a parent at caregiving for 8 hours a day. But in polite society this will hurt feelings.

The actual raising of kids and doing the tough work starts when kids are elementary school age and older. When moral and ethical situations creep into children's lives. That's where the real parenting happens.

If you read up on brain development, you will see that the majority of the foundation that shapes you happens in the first few years of life. Of course development doesn't come to a halt but it slows exponentially in terms of the building blocks tht make someone who they are. Young children are also completely dependnet on adults and so those interactions are very impactly to their development. As they get a little older, the interactions accumulate and they have their own ability to respond to their needs so each interaction is less impactful. Understanding childhood development is important. Your child's brain is pretty much entirely determined by the time they go to school.

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I’m not offended. I work and have childcare and I still feel this way. I’d prefer to be the one at home raising ’my kids but a) I’m not comfortable with the financial trade offs (including a significant reduction in the quality of education we’d be able to access if I didn’t work) and b) most careers, including mine, are difficult to return to after a gap at home caring for children.

Unless you have a very high earning spouse and can stay home without financial sacrifice, the decision about whether to stay home with kids or work and find childcare is a very difficult one.

This. The vast majority of jobs in America are not remote or hybrid. The NYT article linked below shows that in 2024, 10% of workers are fully remote, 10% are hybrid, and 80% are in office. There are many industries and roles that cannot and shouldn’t be remote. Some people on here sneer at surgeons but when you go to get a hip replacement you’ll be very grateful you’re not going to your surgeon’s house to go under the knife while kids eat pirate’s booty over you. Do you really want someone reviewing your tax returns from a lawn chair at their kid’s soccer game? Do you want traders trading from their living rooms while their kids are screaming about peanut butter crackers and not able to connect with their boss if they have questions because their boss’ core hours ended an hour ago? Some people have check the box deliverables that don’t require much collaboration, oversight, interaction, or in person collaboration but those people make up about 10% of the US workforce.

While mothers of young children comprise a larger percentage of remote workers the idea that women are working in remote roles so they can provide childcare to young children during their workday is ridiculous and feeds into negative stereotypes about people who work remotely, especially parents, taking advantage of flexwork to provide childcare and being less dedicated. The main benefit for many working parents of a remote or hybrid role is cutting out a commute, the average amount of daily commuting is 52 minutes total, which leads to more availability for children after working hours.

I don’t take offense to someone saying they don’t want their children raised by strangers and that’s why they stayed home because if your child is in childcare 9 hours a day during the week (this barely allows for a 9-5 workday and 52 minutes of commuting total) and you spend every weekend, federal holiday, and 25 days of vacation/sick days with them each year, you will spend just under 49% of daytime hours with them every year (assuming they sleep for 11 hours a night, or go to bed at 7:45 and wake up at 6:45).

I think what’s pretty sad is people not having the ability to understand that not everyone’s life is like their life and that their choices are not everyone else’s choices. You may be able to work remotely for five hours a day and you may never have to answer emails at 4 or 5 pm or need to take a meeting at 5:30 and your partner may never have to take a meeting at 8:30 or 10 am and neither of you may need to go into an office but this is not a common experience because it’s a) relatively recent and b) doesn’t hold for the vast majority of industries. For many people it is simply a choice of wanting to spend more time with their children when their children are young and either taking a very part time job or staying at home being the best option to make that happen.

Anonymous wrote:No, I’m not offended. I work and have childcare and I still feel this way. I’d prefer to be the one at home raising ’my kids but a) I’m not comfortable with the financial trade offs (including a significant reduction in the quality of education we’d be able to access if I didn’t work) and b) most careers, including mine, are difficult to return to after a gap at home caring for children.

Unless you have a very high earning spouse and can stay home without financial sacrifice, the decision about whether to stay home with kids or work and find childcare is a very difficult one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I’m not offended. I work and have childcare and I still feel this way. I’d prefer to be the one at home raising ’my kids but a) I’m not comfortable with the financial trade offs (including a significant reduction in the quality of education we’d be able to access if I didn’t work) and b) most careers, including mine, are difficult to return to after a gap at home caring for children.

Unless you have a very high earning spouse and can stay home without financial sacrifice, the decision about whether to stay home with kids or work and find childcare is a very difficult one.

Same. The choice to stay home full time would have meant giving up my career completely. I didn't get a PhD just to walk away from all of it. I did "mommy track" myself so I have a lot less on my plate than if I had aimed for the stars. But it is not an option in my field to just take off a few years and expect to get any kind of full time job upon return. There are too many highly qualified candidates who kept their foot on the gas pedal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s rude. I have been both a SAHM and now work from an office four days a week, and I have always been neutral as to how anyone else chooses to conduct their lives and structure their families.

I got a little offended when a colleague said “when my daughter was born we decided my wife would stay home, and we were able to do that.” In response, I clarified that we *could* have me stay at home but that I *choose* to work. The implication of his statement was that he was financially able to support his family himself; I wanted to make it clear that my husband also earns enough to support our family, as well (and I believe makes more than this person). I found that grating.

“When my daughter was born we wanted to buy a red car, and we were able to do that.”

But I bought a green car! His implication was that I was inferior!

I mean even in your example "we were able to" sounds very off-putting. Why not just "we bought a red car."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s rude. I have been both a SAHM and now work from an office four days a week, and I have always been neutral as to how anyone else chooses to conduct their lives and structure their families.

I got a little offended when a colleague said “when my daughter was born we decided my wife would stay home, and we were able to do that.” In response, I clarified that we *could* have me stay at home but that I *choose* to work. The implication of his statement was that he was financially able to support his family himself; I wanted to make it clear that my husband also earns enough to support our family, as well (and I believe makes more than this person). I found that grating.

“When my daughter was born we wanted to buy a red car, and we were able to do that.”

But I bought a green car! His implication was that I was inferior!

I mean even in your example "we were able to" sounds very off-putting. Why not just "we bought a red car."

DP: Because then it fails to acknowledge that you need more money to afford the red car and that the red car is a privilege, so not acknowledging that it is a luxury sounds tone deaf too. It's a lose-lose situation and best to simply yell, "Squirrel!" while pointing to the left when someone asks you what you do for work or why you don't work. People look for reasons to be offended by and look down on your choice to stay home or simply try to humiliate you. It's most often the very reason they ask. You just need to change the subject and refuse to answer.

I disagree with this. I think it’s totally fine and not rude to say “I stay home with the kids” or “we live in [expensive neighborhood]” without launching into how lucky you are to be able to do this. It doesn’t imply that your choices are superior or universally correct.

I would feel like a dick telling another mom “I am lucky to be able to stay home” or “I prefer to be the one raising my own kids” just like I would think a lady telling me “I’m lucky to be raking in a million/yr” or “I could never stay home, I need to use my brain” sounds insufferable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s rude. I have been both a SAHM and now work from an office four days a week, and I have always been neutral as to how anyone else chooses to conduct their lives and structure their families.

I got a little offended when a colleague said “when my daughter was born we decided my wife would stay home, and we were able to do that.” In response, I clarified that we *could* have me stay at home but that I *choose* to work. The implication of his statement was that he was financially able to support his family himself; I wanted to make it clear that my husband also earns enough to support our family, as well (and I believe makes more than this person). I found that grating.

“When my daughter was born we wanted to buy a red car, and we were able to do that.”

But I bought a green car! His implication was that I was inferior!

I mean even in your example "we were able to" sounds very off-putting. Why not just "we bought a red car."

DP: Because then it fails to acknowledge that you need more money to afford the red car and that the red car is a privilege, so not acknowledging that it is a luxury sounds tone deaf too. It's a lose-lose situation and best to simply yell, "Squirrel!" while pointing to the left when someone asks you what you do for work or why you don't work. People look for reasons to be offended by and look down on your choice to stay home or simply try to humiliate you. It's most often the very reason they ask. You just need to change the subject and refuse to answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a huge difference to the kids though to have a more relaxed morning and to be able to come home and rest after school instead of staying in aftercare.

I stopped working when I had my kids, went back part-time when they started school and now that they are in high school I am increasing my hours close to full-time. I have always worked from home and have an intellectually stimulating job.

I realize that I am very lucky and not everyone has the same options as I do. I have no judgment, only sympathy, for those who would prefer to stay home with kids but have to work due to financial reasons.

I will never regret staying home with the kids when they were young. I truly believe that having one lovung and engaged parent stay home is the very best for the children. Those were also some of the best years of my life and I am forever grateful that I had the opportunity.

Our aftercare was so much fun at our school that SAHMs also sent their kids 2-3 days a week because it was one big playdate and they felt left out.

I think it’s good to have 2 engaged parents and we need to start making dads part of the equation.

I agree. I much prefer that our kids spend their after school with a mix of nanny, DH and me rather than 100% with me. And because DH doesn’t have to be sole breadwinner, he took a job that doesn’t require him to work weekends, so we can hang out together all weekend.

The three SAHMs I know well, their husbands are a mess. Totally checked out. Even if they don’t work many hours, they spend a ton of free time on their phone because they “earned” it by being the sole breadwinner.

In my experience the guys are not such jerks that they think they "earned it" but it's just the kids never even think to ask dad to do anything and they don't really think of it.. like the kids need sunscreen. Then people get mad their H's don't do anything. It's just part of my H's ethos to know what the kids need and to do it, no need to instruct or ask. If you don't involve them how do they know.

I have a highly competent and high earning husband. We hang out with other super engaging dads. The dads are smart, athletic and help around the house. There are men who are not engaged even if they don’t have demanding jobs. Look at all the men who have affairs. They are cheating on their wives, not on their phones. You can cheat at all income levels as well.

I agree there are dads who help in the am, are home in the afternoon, moms also high earners and very involved. Staff does most everything else... but this is about 10% of the top 10% ers.


But come on you know high earners are cheating as much as slugs.