Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hi is anyone with a kid at UVA following the parent posts on FB? I’m shocked that parents use terms like “top tier” frat and how they can’t believe their kid did not get into a top frat. It reminds me of when I was in high school 30 years ago and there were the popular kids. Anyway I just want to tell them that my kid who never had many friends is loving rush and when I asked him about these top tier frats his response is that the top tier is the one that’s right for you.

UVA rush is brutal. I graduated there almost 28 years ago and it still is crystal clear in my mind. Had a great experience over all but the sorority mean girl mentally is off the charts.

And it’s like this at a lot of schools. The older girls who are nice and can afford it pay a penalty to miss it. Even if they like being in the house, they realize rush is an awful experience and don’t want to be a part of it.

Yeah, but unlike many schools, UVA is only 30% Greek. And the houses are off campus. You can choose, as my DD did, not to participate to ever go to a frat party. Imagine that! free choice!

+1 Reading some of these posts they act like someone is putting a gun to every 1st year there to rush. It’s easy to avoid and won’t destroy your college experience like some of these hysterical people are inferring. The Greek culture there isn’t as pervasive as they are making it out to be. There are plenty of clubs that have issues also. In fact, the last two to be reprimanded for hazing are Woman’s Club Gymnastics and the University Guide Service.
Hazing Misconduct Report | Student Affairs (virginia.edu)

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi is anyone with a kid at UVA following the parent posts on FB? I’m shocked that parents use terms like “top tier” frat and how they can’t believe their kid did not get into a top frat. It reminds me of when I was in high school 30 years ago and there were the popular kids. Anyway I just want to tell them that my kid who never had many friends is loving rush and when I asked him about these top tier frats his response is that the top tier is the one that’s right for you.

UVA rush is brutal. I graduated there almost 28 years ago and it still is crystal clear in my mind. Had a great experience over all but the sorority mean girl mentally is off the charts.

And it’s like this at a lot of schools. The older girls who are nice and can afford it pay a penalty to miss it. Even if they like being in the house, they realize rush is an awful experience and don’t want to be a part of it.

Yeah, but unlike many schools, UVA is only 30% Greek. And the houses are off campus. You can choose, as my DD did, not to participate to ever go to a frat party. Imagine that! free choice!

+1 Reading some of these posts they act like someone is putting a gun to every 1st year there to rush. It’s easy to avoid and won’t destroy your college experience like some of these hysterical people are inferring. The Greek culture there isn’t as pervasive as they are making it out to be. There are plenty of clubs that have issues also. In fact, the last two to be reprimanded for hazing are Woman’s Club Gymnastics and the University Guide Service.
Hazing Misconduct Report | Student Affairs (virginia.edu)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi is anyone with a kid at UVA following the parent posts on FB? I’m shocked that parents use terms like “top tier” frat and how they can’t believe their kid did not get into a top frat. It reminds me of when I was in high school 30 years ago and there were the popular kids. Anyway I just want to tell them that my kid who never had many friends is loving rush and when I asked him about these top tier frats his response is that the top tier is the one that’s right for you.

UVA rush is brutal. I graduated there almost 28 years ago and it still is crystal clear in my mind. Had a great experience over all but the sorority mean girl mentally is off the charts.

And it’s like this at a lot of schools. The older girls who are nice and can afford it pay a penalty to miss it. Even if they like being in the house, they realize rush is an awful experience and don’t want to be a part of it.

Yeah, but unlike many schools, UVA is only 30% Greek. And the houses are off campus. You can choose, as my DD did, not to participate to ever go to a frat party. Imagine that! free choice!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi is anyone with a kid at UVA following the parent posts on FB? I’m shocked that parents use terms like “top tier” frat and how they can’t believe their kid did not get into a top frat. It reminds me of when I was in high school 30 years ago and there were the popular kids. Anyway I just want to tell them that my kid who never had many friends is loving rush and when I asked him about these top tier frats his response is that the top tier is the one that’s right for you.

UVA rush is brutal. I graduated there almost 28 years ago and it still is crystal clear in my mind. Had a great experience over all but the sorority mean girl mentally is off the charts.

And it’s like this at a lot of schools. The older girls who are nice and can afford it pay a penalty to miss it. Even if they like being in the house, they realize rush is an awful experience and don’t want to be a part of it.

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Anonymous wrote:Girls drop mid week because the algorithm is set up to push girls into the unpopular houses to save the chapters. Girls aren’t falling for it. They want to rush all week and have a choice to make at the end. They’re told to find the right fit until they’re down to the one house the university is trying to save and then they’re told to just take what you get and don’t complain. Sounds like fun?

This is a really stupid statement,

+1
It’s asinine.
What the PP (who thinks she has cracked the code) is missing is that prior to changing the algorithm to “push the girls” toward considering houses they may not have wanted prior to rush week, sororities used to be able to invite any number they wanted to each round. And so all the girls would think they were destined to be a DDD so they’d keep going back there and drop other groups so that they could go back every night. Then the last night, girls who were sure they were going to get a DDD bid were left without a bid at all.
The algorithm just introduces the ones who were never going to be members of DDD to that reality much sooner so that they can have time to adjust their expectations and find another group they like before the last night of rush.
There’s no great way to make everyone happy. But unlike PP’s fantasyland scenario, the reality is many girls never would have had that “end of week” choice. The math doesn’t math on that.
This is like thinking the star football player is going to ask you to the prom, so you turn down invitations from the nice valedictorian, the cool soccer goalie, and the hilarious drama dude when they ask you…only to find out the week of prom that star football player is going with head cheerleader and not you. Guess what? The truth is he was never going to ask you. He was always going with head cheerleader. And yeah, maybe it would have hurt a little if you had found that out three weeks ago, but wouldn’t you rather have understood that reality sooner so that you had considered those other options when you had the chance? But now it’s too late. You’re home crying on prom night.

So the star QB was always going to prom with the head cheerleader = the "top" sororities already know who they're going to invite before rush even starts?

That’s right. Welcome to reality.

So why even have the dog and pony show of rush? It's more fun when there are crying girls at the end?

Exactly. And Yes. Because Greek life is all about perpetuating social hierarchy. I’m not being sarcastic.

DP. For sure. And parents, if your daughter is at the top of the social hierarchy at her NoVa high school, this will not matter whatsoever in the UVA Greek system.

Being from NOVA is a huge strike against getting into top tier, in fact. Absolutely works against you.

Forgive my ignorance, but why does that work against you?

I’m a few decades past learning this first hand, but if probably hasn’t changed that much (considering the three top-tiers are exactly the same). The NoVa kids are so plentiful, nothing stands out about them. They’re all kind of lumped together and people get tired of hearing that you’re yet another kid from Northern Virginia. I guess certain private school girls from NoVa might have an edge, but in general, these super wealthy out-of-state girls have no interest whatsoever in knowing the average suburban girl from TJ or Robinson or whatever. Different universes.

Exactly this. There's nothing exotic or elite or even interesting about your basic girl from FCPS or LCPS or Alexandria, APS or PW County.

They do not want exotic. They want conformity.

Well, to be fair, when was the last time
you went out and sought to join a group that had nothing in common?
It seems weird to expect women to seek to join a sorority of women who are UN-like them.

Compatibility and conformity are two different things.

Agree. But perception is reality and I think sororities are often accused of courting conformity when the nature of girls on pacts tends to self impose this.
Even “non-sorority types” conjur an image of conformity. Are the group of teen girls wearing black retro metal-band tees and sporting various brightly-dyed hair colors and and nose rings who hang out together at the local high school conforming in the way they dress alike? Or are they grouping themselves tigether based on interests and compatibility. I think the two ideas are often cousins.

DP. I don’t know, I think there’s a difference between conforming with your peer group, and conforming with some notion of how a young women needs to present herself in order to mix with the right fraternity. (And therefore bag the right kind of mate.) They’re both conforming, but one is vying for the ultimate evolutionary prize.

But if that’s your view of sorority women and their goals in 2024, I think that’s a you-issue. Not sure there is anyone anything can say to change your mind.

But please don’t try to say that you “support all women” with that insulting viewpoint.

If I have to support this system to be able to “support all women,” the you’re right, I guess I don’t.

Such a sad, pathetic, and closed-minded human.

Lady, I went through rush at UVA. I was open-minded about it and then I saw it for what it was.

Hahaha same. Sounds like not much has changed at all. Both my rooommate and I ended up dropping out of rush for different reasons - me because I was squicked out by the over-the-top performative 'sisterhood' at some of the houses where I was invited back for prefs (none of which actually felt like a fit for me), and my roommate because she was black-balled at the only house she wanted (Theta) because she made the apparently unforgivable faux pas of announcing where other sorority women could hear her (at Coupe's) that she was only considering them - she was 100% their type (money, connections, intelligence) so it seemed really vindictive. Similarly, I remember a suitemate sobbing when she was cut from KD after house tours, but then plastering on a smile to accept her bid from XO the next day...in hindsight, I probably would have had much more success and a better experience overall had I waited to rush as a second year - most first years are just so unprepared to make a good decision because they're motivated only by 'wanting to be wanted'.

I wish everyone everywhere would be required to wait until second year to rush. First year rush just shouldn't be a thing at all. Give these kids a chance to settle in at college, adjust to being away from home for the first time, and see if they can make friends organically before deciding whether they really want to put themselves through this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi is anyone with a kid at UVA following the parent posts on FB? I’m shocked that parents use terms like “top tier” frat and how they can’t believe their kid did not get into a top frat. It reminds me of when I was in high school 30 years ago and there were the popular kids. Anyway I just want to tell them that my kid who never had many friends is loving rush and when I asked him about these top tier frats his response is that the top tier is the one that’s right for you.

UVA rush is brutal. I graduated there almost 28 years ago and it still is crystal clear in my mind. Had a great experience over all but the sorority mean girl mentally is off the charts.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Girls drop mid week because the algorithm is set up to push girls into the unpopular houses to save the chapters. Girls aren’t falling for it. They want to rush all week and have a choice to make at the end. They’re told to find the right fit until they’re down to the one house the university is trying to save and then they’re told to just take what you get and don’t complain. Sounds like fun?

This is a really stupid statement,

+1
It’s asinine.
What the PP (who thinks she has cracked the code) is missing is that prior to changing the algorithm to “push the girls” toward considering houses they may not have wanted prior to rush week, sororities used to be able to invite any number they wanted to each round. And so all the girls would think they were destined to be a DDD so they’d keep going back there and drop other groups so that they could go back every night. Then the last night, girls who were sure they were going to get a DDD bid were left without a bid at all.
The algorithm just introduces the ones who were never going to be members of DDD to that reality much sooner so that they can have time to adjust their expectations and find another group they like before the last night of rush.
There’s no great way to make everyone happy. But unlike PP’s fantasyland scenario, the reality is many girls never would have had that “end of week” choice. The math doesn’t math on that.
This is like thinking the star football player is going to ask you to the prom, so you turn down invitations from the nice valedictorian, the cool soccer goalie, and the hilarious drama dude when they ask you…only to find out the week of prom that star football player is going with head cheerleader and not you. Guess what? The truth is he was never going to ask you. He was always going with head cheerleader. And yeah, maybe it would have hurt a little if you had found that out three weeks ago, but wouldn’t you rather have understood that reality sooner so that you had considered those other options when you had the chance? But now it’s too late. You’re home crying on prom night.

So the star QB was always going to prom with the head cheerleader = the "top" sororities already know who they're going to invite before rush even starts?

That’s right. Welcome to reality.

So why even have the dog and pony show of rush? It's more fun when there are crying girls at the end?

Or maybe teach your crying daughters that there are amazing women in all chapters and a positive and fun experience to be had no matter what letters she ends up wearing?
I don’t know. I mean the most “sought after” houses can only take the max number they are allowed. Did you let your kid only apply to Harvard? Or did you tell her there are lots of schools out there where she can be happy and get a good education?
Just makes no sense that girls make up their minds that they need to be in one specific sorority in order to be happy. The crying drama about it is a bit much.

All of that is true, of course, but we're talking about teenagers here. 18yo young women still want to fit in with the "cool crowd" and if the "cool crowd" rejects you, it's very painful.

Exactly. Most of these kids are just three months out of high school. Some are still 17. Imagine high school seniors creating social groups and doing the same thing. It would be so obviously disturbing, it wouldn’t continue. Our school doesn’t even do valedictorian after a couple suicides.

My FCPS high school had a sorority - in the late 80s/early 90s it had been around for 30 years. You were invited to pledge after your freshman or sophomore year in the summer. There was a big winter formal Dec 23 at a hotel. Meetings and parties throughout the year. So yeah, I can imagine.

Not at all the same thing or same process. And 30-40 years ago.

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Anonymous wrote:Girls drop mid week because the algorithm is set up to push girls into the unpopular houses to save the chapters. Girls aren’t falling for it. They want to rush all week and have a choice to make at the end. They’re told to find the right fit until they’re down to the one house the university is trying to save and then they’re told to just take what you get and don’t complain. Sounds like fun?

This is a really stupid statement,

+1
It’s asinine.
What the PP (who thinks she has cracked the code) is missing is that prior to changing the algorithm to “push the girls” toward considering houses they may not have wanted prior to rush week, sororities used to be able to invite any number they wanted to each round. And so all the girls would think they were destined to be a DDD so they’d keep going back there and drop other groups so that they could go back every night. Then the last night, girls who were sure they were going to get a DDD bid were left without a bid at all.
The algorithm just introduces the ones who were never going to be members of DDD to that reality much sooner so that they can have time to adjust their expectations and find another group they like before the last night of rush.
There’s no great way to make everyone happy. But unlike PP’s fantasyland scenario, the reality is many girls never would have had that “end of week” choice. The math doesn’t math on that.
This is like thinking the star football player is going to ask you to the prom, so you turn down invitations from the nice valedictorian, the cool soccer goalie, and the hilarious drama dude when they ask you…only to find out the week of prom that star football player is going with head cheerleader and not you. Guess what? The truth is he was never going to ask you. He was always going with head cheerleader. And yeah, maybe it would have hurt a little if you had found that out three weeks ago, but wouldn’t you rather have understood that reality sooner so that you had considered those other options when you had the chance? But now it’s too late. You’re home crying on prom night.

So the star QB was always going to prom with the head cheerleader = the "top" sororities already know who they're going to invite before rush even starts?

That’s right. Welcome to reality.

So why even have the dog and pony show of rush? It's more fun when there are crying girls at the end?

Exactly. And Yes. Because Greek life is all about perpetuating social hierarchy. I’m not being sarcastic.

DP. For sure. And parents, if your daughter is at the top of the social hierarchy at her NoVa high school, this will not matter whatsoever in the UVA Greek system.

Being from NOVA is a huge strike against getting into top tier, in fact. Absolutely works against you.

Forgive my ignorance, but why does that work against you?

I’m a few decades past learning this first hand, but if probably hasn’t changed that much (considering the three top-tiers are exactly the same). The NoVa kids are so plentiful, nothing stands out about them. They’re all kind of lumped together and people get tired of hearing that you’re yet another kid from Northern Virginia. I guess certain private school girls from NoVa might have an edge, but in general, these super wealthy out-of-state girls have no interest whatsoever in knowing the average suburban girl from TJ or Robinson or whatever. Different universes.

Exactly this. There's nothing exotic or elite or even interesting about your basic girl from FCPS or LCPS or Alexandria, APS or PW County.

They do not want exotic. They want conformity.

Well, to be fair, when was the last time
you went out and sought to join a group that had nothing in common?
It seems weird to expect women to seek to join a sorority of women who are UN-like them.

Compatibility and conformity are two different things.

Agree. But perception is reality and I think sororities are often accused of courting conformity when the nature of girls on pacts tends to self impose this.
Even “non-sorority types” conjur an image of conformity. Are the group of teen girls wearing black retro metal-band tees and sporting various brightly-dyed hair colors and and nose rings who hang out together at the local high school conforming in the way they dress alike? Or are they grouping themselves tigether based on interests and compatibility. I think the two ideas are often cousins.

DP. I don’t know, I think there’s a difference between conforming with your peer group, and conforming with some notion of how a young women needs to present herself in order to mix with the right fraternity. (And therefore bag the right kind of mate.) They’re both conforming, but one is vying for the ultimate evolutionary prize.

But if that’s your view of sorority women and their goals in 2024, I think that’s a you-issue. Not sure there is anyone anything can say to change your mind.

But please don’t try to say that you “support all women” with that insulting viewpoint.

If I have to support this system to be able to “support all women,” the you’re right, I guess I don’t.

Such a sad, pathetic, and closed-minded human.

Lady, I went through rush at UVA. I was open-minded about it and then I saw it for what it was.

Hahaha same. Sounds like not much has changed at all. Both my rooommate and I ended up dropping out of rush for different reasons - me because I was squicked out by the over-the-top performative 'sisterhood' at some of the houses where I was invited back for prefs (none of which actually felt like a fit for me), and my roommate because she was black-balled at the only house she wanted (Theta) because she made the apparently unforgivable faux pas of announcing where other sorority women could hear her (at Coupe's) that she was only considering them - she was 100% their type (money, connections, intelligence) so it seemed really vindictive. Similarly, I remember a suitemate sobbing when she was cut from KD after house tours, but then plastering on a smile to accept her bid from XO the next day...in hindsight, I probably would have had much more success and a better experience overall had I waited to rush as a second year - most first years are just so unprepared to make a good decision because they're motivated only by 'wanting to be wanted'.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question- several references to resumes in this thread. Do girls have to submit that prior to rush? What do they put on- high school they went to? Town from? They they were a lifeguard or camp counselor in summer? I am truly asking as I must be really out of look as never heard of first years having resumes.

Yes it’s often called a social resume.
Or sorority resume. Or sometimes it’s just an info sheet. SEC and some other schools like almost all Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, and Missouri schools also request 2-4 photos —at least one full length and a headshot— these are used to identify you and during the week before rush, some chapters put the photos of the girls they are focused on recruiting into a slide show and memorize your name and random facts about you from your resume so that they’ll know what to talk to you about.
A rush resume might have a small photo of you on it, your high school, gpa/SAT/ACT, list of ECs, philanthropy involvement, leadership activities, camps attended, church or religious affiliation, parents names and Greek affiliations (though most have done away with preferential policies for legacies, but it’s still a good idea to include because it can demonstrate that your parents are likely to be emotionally and financial supportive of your decision to join Greek life), intended major, name of your dorm (if known), and any links to social media accounts like insta or Snapchat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe that sororities have changed so much since I attended. FWIW when I was president almost none of what’s been said on this thread is true. A rush committee who has already decided who is attending? Absolutely not. Yield protection? Not a term I’ve heard before. Top tiers everyone is talking about? Totally different from when I went there, and I wouldn’t have ever referred to them that way. We just tried to find girls we clicked with and would want to hang out with, it was not any deeper than that. And we certainly didn’t care where you were from or what vacations you took! Give me a break.

its pretty not cool, but the "tiers" exist because of the fraternities. I wish they could be required to mix with all of the sororities but of course that would not work so the top mixes with the top, middle mixes with middle and low mixes with low. That's why no girls want to be low, even if they might like those girls and the sisterhood because they perceive that the guys they will be mixing with are "less than". Less good looking, less charming, less eligible, who the heck knows.

Less douchey?

Anonymous wrote:It's all about what the woman can offer to the house. If your folks have a lot of money, that can benefit the house. If you are hot that benefits the house. If you are poor, that doesn't help the house, but it's better than being ugly or fat or both. You can hide poverty but you cant hide fugliness. And fuglies tarnish the reputation of every other woman in a top house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe that sororities have changed so much since I attended. FWIW when I was president almost none of what’s been said on this thread is true. A rush committee who has already decided who is attending? Absolutely not. Yield protection? Not a term I’ve heard before. Top tiers everyone is talking about? Totally different from when I went there, and I wouldn’t have ever referred to them that way. We just tried to find girls we clicked with and would want to hang out with, it was not any deeper than that. And we certainly didn’t care where you were from or what vacations you took! Give me a break.

its pretty not cool, but the "tiers" exist because of the fraternities. I wish they could be required to mix with all of the sororities but of course that would not work so the top mixes with the top, middle mixes with middle and low mixes with low. That's why no girls want to be low, even if they might like those girls and the sisterhood because they perceive that the guys they will be mixing with are "less than". Less good looking, less charming, less eligible, who the heck knows.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi is anyone with a kid at UVA following the parent posts on FB? I’m shocked that parents use terms like “top tier” frat and how they can’t believe their kid did not get into a top frat. It reminds me of when I was in high school 30 years ago and there were the popular kids. Anyway I just want to tell them that my kid who never had many friends is loving rush and when I asked him about these top tier frats his response is that the top tier is the one that’s right for you.

UVA rush is brutal. I graduated there almost 28 years ago and it still is crystal clear in my mind. Had a great experience over all but the sorority mean girl mentally is off the charts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question- several references to resumes in this thread. Do girls have to submit that prior to rush? What do they put on- high school they went to? Town from? They they were a lifeguard or camp counselor in summer? I am truly asking as I must be really out of look as never heard of first years having resumes.

Yes it’s often called a social resume.
Or sorority resume. Or sometimes it’s just an info sheet. SEC and some other schools like almost all Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, and Missouri schools also request 2-4 photos —at least one full length and a headshot— these are used to identify you and during the week before rush, some chapters put the photos of the girls they are focused on recruiting into a slide show and memorize your name and random facts about you from your resume so that they’ll know what to talk to you about.
A rush resume might have a small photo of you on it, your high school, gpa/SAT/ACT, list of ECs, philanthropy involvement, leadership activities, camps attended, church or religious affiliation, parents names and Greek affiliations (though most have done away with preferential policies for legacies, but it’s still a good idea to include because it can demonstrate that your parents are likely to be emotionally and financial supportive of your decision to join Greek life), intended major, name of your dorm (if known), and any links to social media accounts like insta or Snapchat.