Yes, and those families for whom adding children added more financial stress, such as infants born with major medical problems, just had slacker babies.

NICU babies, those with cerebral palsy, all those issues -- babies got to step it up. Something should be done about it.

I got married my wife and I was making $55k each. My wife wanted kids right away.

We bought a small fixer upper house in a second tier neighborhood after 15 months of marriage and had our kid after 16 months of marriage. My wife decided to leave work after first one born and I was making $62k a year!!

With a kid and a mortgage and wife to support.

She said if you let me do this I will 100 percent support career, work late, travel, go to work events pretty much you do your career even if you work to 8 pm every night things will run here.

Shortly after baby born got raise and promotion to 86k

Then we had second and not long after raise promotion 120k

Then we had 3rd switched jobs raise promotion to $180k

Ten years after birth of first I was making $300k a year.

A man need a rock on his back to perform. Nothing better than babies and a SAH wife and a mortgage.

The baby brings the bread.

The Baby Brings the Bread is an old saying.

You don’t need money to have a baby the baby will bring it is true.

LDS families do not access mental health resources more than the typical American does..... In fact, a religion often tries to keep things under the radar and a lot of council people receive is from a pastor....... I'm fine if that's the mental and spiritual journey you want to go on, but they do not seek trained professional help

Anonymous wrote:Mormons are overwhelmingly politically conservative but have the highest rate of mental illness in the country.

https://www.abc4.com/news/utah-has-the-highest-rate-of-mental-health-illness-in-the-u-s/amp/

No, that’s not true. LDS folks just access mental health resources better and more than others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having kids simply isn't worth it. It's a huge pain and requires way too much sacrifice. Add in the the costs on top of that and it's a huge mess.
When people ask me about parenting and having kids I tell them if you really want to do it then have one kid. But really it's better not to have any. It's staggering the impact my children have had on our household wealth.

It's true, children are the major impact on my household wealth. I tell them every day that they shouldn't make the same mistakes. It's important to me that they be as wealthy as possible.

Or they could just not have kids and relieve that pressure.

I would not force or say anything if my children want to be single and not to have kids one day. I love my children, but they are more pain than enjoyable in real life. My husband sometimes complains that he wishes we have zero children. We have 2 kids together. I am like a robot doing routines on top of work, and kids these days are quite selfish and do not appreciate our efforts these days. I don't regret having them, but I do wish I knew about what I signed up before having them. If I knew about that, I would travel more and have more fun doing other things that I want to do before having kids.

Anonymous wrote:Having kids simply isn't worth it. It's a huge pain and requires way too much sacrifice. Add in the the costs on top of that and it's a huge mess.
When people ask me about parenting and having kids I tell them if you really want to do it then have one kid. But really it's better not to have any. It's staggering the impact my children have had on our household wealth.

It's true, children are the major impact on my household wealth. I tell them every day that they shouldn't make the same mistakes. It's important to me that they be as wealthy as possible.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

The particular question I think says “have you ever been told by a healthcare provider that you have a mental health condition” which I feel like could include “you’re a little depressed” or “having some anxiety.” It doesn’t say “diagnosis.” That sounds like anyone who has talked to a therapist or a primary care doctor during Covid honestly.

But also ironically I think a very high percentage of women who’ve had babies would be in that boat particularly if they had postpartum care from an OB because at a minimum you’re discussing the depression screener at the six week PP appointment.

I’m a highly educated white liberal woman under 40 so like, I did a PACE group and for sure I would answer yes because of discussing PPA/D symptoms which almost everyone has but I wouldn’t say I was diagnosed or even had PPA/D enough to need medical care but it’s kind of a spectrum.

Pace is terrible. I’m a highly educated woman and the navel gazing and lack of resilience by the women in the group was on another level. Women who acted traumatized because they had a child and then support group leaders who encouraged the hysterical behavior. I’d never seen anything like it. Originally I thought it was a way to make friends and socialize. No, it is a group support group for women and it encourages the idea that women should change and give up their lives once they have had kids. Go to a PACE group and you’ll easily see what’s wrong with modern day parenting.

That’s if you can even afford it, and have the time to go. I tried to sign up and by the time they got back to me I was heading back to work. They suggested I take time off to attend, like that was even possible. But then I couldn’t afford it anyway.

That happened to me too! I had diagnosed PPD and my doctor recommended PACE as a support group, but the organizer took forever to get back to me, then offered a spot in a group that was a 40 minute commute from my home and where only the 1st session would happen during my leave. And then was rude to me when I turned it down.

I wound up going to a support group through the breastfeeding center even though I wasn't having issues with breastfeeding. I just went to meet other moms with babies because my doc thought it would help. Maybe it did?

I think one issue with becoming a mom is that now that it's truly optional for women, we offer a lot less community support than we used to. It's so isolating now.

You likely dodged a bullet. PACE very much preaches the message that life is now over and you will suffer. For a woman with PPD, you likely would have benefited more by stepping out of the house for an hour to grab a coffee on your own. Not paying $600 to hear Suzy cry about having to watch her own baby.

This is a very bizarre experience with PACE. I'm sure there are some dud leaders, but in my group every single woman but one was headed back to full time work after maternity leave and the one was part time in higher education. The leaders helped normalize things the at the time can feel overwhelming and strongly encouraged utilizing whatever supports you have available / need to NOT suffer.

It is a lot of navel gazing, but early motherhood is a wild change for many / most women and between both the reality and the hormanes, it seems like an appropriate time to navel gaze. I was talking to a woman pregnant with her 4th today (i have 3) and we were discussing how the first seemed so hard and now it almost seems unimaginable that it was so hard (though we both remember it being so hard). She made the excellent point that prior to having her baby it had been decades since she'd ever had to learn something big and brand new and you have to do it at a time it feel it feels tremendously important you get it right, you're exhausted and recovering, your hormomes are going nuts, and your marriage is likely strained. That's a lot!

I remember talking to my therapist about how once I had my second it was so much easier but raising my older child was still harder and she pointed out that the baby phase was hard when I had nothing to compare it to and I was learning everything as I went. Now that I have two I feel so much more confident with making decisions for my second knowing what worked and didn't work for kid number 1.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having kids simply isn't worth it. It's a huge pain and requires way too much sacrifice. Add in the the costs on top of that and it's a huge mess.
When people ask me about parenting and having kids I tell them if you really want to do it then have one kid. But really it's better not to have any. It's staggering the impact my children have had on our household wealth.

+100000 I deeply regret having children. It’s a lot of work with little reward. I admit in theory it’s nice having a family of four. But I’ve lost so much because of children. They ruined my body, I can’t travel freely, lost friendships, less money to spend on myself, have to live in a neighborhood with good schools or spend $100k on privates, etc. They are rarely enjoyable to be around as they constantly whine, complain and require me to do things. It’s constant work and even a good man will try to get you to do the bulk of the work. If I want to do something fun I have to schedule it on the family calendar so my husband is home. IT BLOWS.

I actually have had a different experience in that I love having kids and the compromises (less travel, way less spending money, more family activities vs individual activities) have been well worth it to me. That said, I do think a lot of this is my personality and what brings me happiness and that this is not universal. I think it is good that women are actually considering what would make them feel happy and fulfilled before stepping into motherhood.

One thing I don’t love is that women who do want kids and would gladly give up the travel and late nights out with friends feel they can’t afford to have kids even with both spouses working full time. We’ve made becoming a parent incredibly expensive and exhausting (esp for women).

I live outside a medium sized non coastal city in an area that is very family oriented which makes raising kids a lot easier. When I hear how much money you all have to make and how many activities and programs people on this site are signing kids up for to give them a baseline normal (for the area) childhood experience, I’m shocked. I can see why becoming a parent seems impossibly difficult and it’s no wonder some women are opting out.

Anonymous wrote:Having kids simply isn't worth it. It's a huge pain and requires way too much sacrifice. Add in the the costs on top of that and it's a huge mess.
When people ask me about parenting and having kids I tell them if you really want to do it then have one kid. But really it's better not to have any. It's staggering the impact my children have had on our household wealth.

+100000 I deeply regret having children. It’s a lot of work with little reward. I admit in theory it’s nice having a family of four. But I’ve lost so much because of children. They ruined my body, I can’t travel freely, lost friendships, less money to spend on myself, have to live in a neighborhood with good schools or spend $100k on privates, etc. They are rarely enjoyable to be around as they constantly whine, complain and require me to do things. It’s constant work and even a good man will try to get you to do the bulk of the work. If I want to do something fun I have to schedule it on the family calendar so my husband is home. IT BLOWS.

Having kids simply isn't worth it. It's a huge pain and requires way too much sacrifice. Add in the the costs on top of that and it's a huge mess.
When people ask me about parenting and having kids I tell them if you really want to do it then have one kid. But really it's better not to have any. It's staggering the impact my children have had on our household wealth.

A lot of people forget that Millennials, except for the very oldest and the youngest, were new college grads or entry level/junior employees during the recession. It was damn hard to find a decent job between 2008-2012. Even if you graduated before that you were still vulnerable to layoffs or you couldn’t advance your career, and then when the economy really picked back up then you were competing with the new college grads who had just graduated and were younger. It really messed up a lot of people’s career progressions and it took a long while to “catch up.” But now those same Millennials are mid to late 30s and maybe running out of time to have kids especially if they don’t already have a partner.

Millennial here. I have two. Would have liked more but literally can't afford it. Our two were spaced by 5 years so we would only have one day care bill at a time. We live in a small house where the kids share a bedroom and can't afford to upgrade to fit another. (Well, I guess if we didn't worry about saving for retirement or college, but we would at least like to be able to pay for state school, and not work until we die.) I get why people don't have any, or stop sooner than they'd like.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

The particular question I think says “have you ever been told by a healthcare provider that you have a mental health condition” which I feel like could include “you’re a little depressed” or “having some anxiety.” It doesn’t say “diagnosis.” That sounds like anyone who has talked to a therapist or a primary care doctor during Covid honestly.

But also ironically I think a very high percentage of women who’ve had babies would be in that boat particularly if they had postpartum care from an OB because at a minimum you’re discussing the depression screener at the six week PP appointment.

I’m a highly educated white liberal woman under 40 so like, I did a PACE group and for sure I would answer yes because of discussing PPA/D symptoms which almost everyone has but I wouldn’t say I was diagnosed or even had PPA/D enough to need medical care but it’s kind of a spectrum.

Pace is terrible. I’m a highly educated woman and the navel gazing and lack of resilience by the women in the group was on another level. Women who acted traumatized because they had a child and then support group leaders who encouraged the hysterical behavior. I’d never seen anything like it. Originally I thought it was a way to make friends and socialize. No, it is a group support group for women and it encourages the idea that women should change and give up their lives once they have had kids. Go to a PACE group and you’ll easily see what’s wrong with modern day parenting.

That’s if you can even afford it, and have the time to go. I tried to sign up and by the time they got back to me I was heading back to work. They suggested I take time off to attend, like that was even possible. But then I couldn’t afford it anyway.

That happened to me too! I had diagnosed PPD and my doctor recommended PACE as a support group, but the organizer took forever to get back to me, then offered a spot in a group that was a 40 minute commute from my home and where only the 1st session would happen during my leave. And then was rude to me when I turned it down.

I wound up going to a support group through the breastfeeding center even though I wasn't having issues with breastfeeding. I just went to meet other moms with babies because my doc thought it would help. Maybe it did?

I think one issue with becoming a mom is that now that it's truly optional for women, we offer a lot less community support than we used to. It's so isolating now.

You likely dodged a bullet. PACE very much preaches the message that life is now over and you will suffer. For a woman with PPD, you likely would have benefited more by stepping out of the house for an hour to grab a coffee on your own. Not paying $600 to hear Suzy cry about having to watch her own baby.

This is a very bizarre experience with PACE. I'm sure there are some dud leaders, but in my group every single woman but one was headed back to full time work after maternity leave and the one was part time in higher education. The leaders helped normalize things the at the time can feel overwhelming and strongly encouraged utilizing whatever supports you have available / need to NOT suffer.

It is a lot of navel gazing, but early motherhood is a wild change for many / most women and between both the reality and the hormanes, it seems like an appropriate time to navel gaze. I was talking to a woman pregnant with her 4th today (i have 3) and we were discussing how the first seemed so hard and now it almost seems unimaginable that it was so hard (though we both remember it being so hard). She made the excellent point that prior to having her baby it had been decades since she'd ever had to learn something big and brand new and you have to do it at a time it feel it feels tremendously important you get it right, you're exhausted and recovering, your hormomes are going nuts, and your marriage is likely strained. That's a lot!

+1. I thought PACE was fine, and most of the women were going back to work. Perhaps it self-selects for women who are having a hard time.