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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.

Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.

Being under indictment is not cause for not being on the ballot. Trump will be the GOP nominee, short of death. So your choice is Trump or whatever Dem, including Biden, is on the ticket against him.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Plenty of great reasons to vote for Biden, as you surely know.

He's actually had a remarkably impactful term, one that has made (or will make) a positive difference in many people's lives.

But that doesn't matter to you: all that matters is your progressive purity test.

If it's not exactly perfectly 100% the way you want it, it's not good enough.

Sound like anyone you know? (Other than my 2 year old?)

Do you honestly think we're better off than 4 years ago? Teetering on the edge of WWIII, reproductive rights wiped away, wealth inequality at all time highs, homelessness becoming epidemic, depression suicide and despair at all time highs, nothing done on gun control, and more of the planet dying.

The Democrats have had chance after chance to do something. Every time they play games, do the tiniest little bit after giving away the store to Republicans, actively thwart progressive policies, and when election time comes, all they can say is we're not criminals ignore the fact that we're utterly ineffectual.

If we listen to you "incrementalism" people, we'll all burn along with the planet long before you get around to fixing the problem. I don't know how to make it any clearer. We DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR THIS BULLSH!T.

Do you not remember COVID and the tanked economy of 2020?

We are teetering on the edge of WWIII because Putin and Iran need it to distract from their own domestic issues and are using Hamas and Ukraine as the patsies.

Reproductive rights were wiped away by the right wing Federalist Society and the judges their bought and paid for GOP Senators and Presidents installed on the court.

Wealth inequality is what the GOP wants and implemented a tax code to exacerbate it.

Homelessness is a result of the GOP closing down mental health services and facilities for decades.

Gun control is a legislative issue that the GOP has stood firm on. The Dems, along with 75% of the country support an assault weapons ban and impediments to those with mental illness from legally buying guns.

The Dems passed, with zero GOP support, the most consequential climate change bill in US history.

Both sides are the same and I am going to stay home so the GOP can gain more power.

Have fun with that.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Sure, let’s pretend that Trump isn't going to get the GOP nomination. Hell, they might not even have a convention (again).

Again, it’s a year away and a lot can happen in a year. Tell me why Biden had earned my vote on his own merits not as an attempt to level blame for a potential Trump win.

Not going to waste my time convincing anyone. The facts are there for your perusal - make of them what you will. But don't try and pretend that one of your choices tried to overthrow an election and is currently under four separate federal indictments.

You consider it a waste of time to convince people to vote for someone you’re sure is all that stands between us and certain doom. Gosh I can’t imagine why your candidate is falling in Democratic polls.

You Nader fans are pretty proud of your ability to resist reason and logic. Not sure why you want people to hit their head on a wall.

Try again. I voted for Biden in ‘20 and Clinton (reluctantly) in ‘16. In ‘20 Biden was campaigning with Warren and Sanders and doing outreach to the progressive wing of the party. In ‘23 he is rolling back workers benefits and ignoring rape victims (apparently) to help him stay in power. I am exactly who your candidate can’t lose, so if it’s a waste of time to convince me your candidate is in significant trouble.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Yes! I don’t care about the two party system. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils. It is my freedom to vote for whoever I want to vote for and that can be a write in candidate. All those disgusted by Biden and Trump need to unite and vote for a third party or write in a candidate. Our votes are not for sale. You want us to vote for you…give us a reason to instead of just saying I’m not the other candidate. And all those saying if you don’t vote for Biden, Trump gets elected. Well make your candidate more electable….not our problem.

No one is telling you you can't vote for whomever you wish.

However, it is reality that the US is a two party system, and that voting third party is a wasted vote. You can believe it is a protest vote, or that you actually prefer RFK or Cornell West or Jill Stein or whatever, but the fact is, its a wasted vote.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Yes! I don’t care about the two party system. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils. It is my freedom to vote for whoever I want to vote for and that can be a write in candidate. All those disgusted by Biden and Trump need to unite and vote for a third party or write in a candidate. Our votes are not for sale. You want us to vote for you…give us a reason to instead of just saying I’m not the other candidate. And all those saying if you don’t vote for Biden, Trump gets elected. Well make your candidate more electable….not our problem.

No one is telling you you can't vote for whomever you wish.

However, it is reality that the US is a two party system, and that voting third party is a wasted vote. You can believe it is a protest vote, or that you actually prefer RFK or Cornell West or Jill Stein or whatever, but the fact is, its a wasted vote.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Plenty of great reasons to vote for Biden, as you surely know.

He's actually had a remarkably impactful term, one that has made (or will make) a positive difference in many people's lives.

But that doesn't matter to you: all that matters is your progressive purity test.

If it's not exactly perfectly 100% the way you want it, it's not good enough.

Sound like anyone you know? (Other than my 2 year old?)

Do you honestly think we're better off than 4 years ago? Teetering on the edge of WWIII, reproductive rights wiped away, wealth inequality at all time highs, homelessness becoming epidemic, depression suicide and despair at all time highs, nothing done on gun control, and more of the planet dying.

The Democrats have had chance after chance to do something. Every time they play games, do the tiniest little bit after giving away the store to Republicans, actively thwart progressive policies, and when election time comes, all they can say is we're not criminals ignore the fact that we're utterly ineffectual.

If we listen to you "incrementalism" people, we'll all burn along with the planet long before you get around to fixing the problem. I don't know how to make it any clearer. We DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR THIS BULLSH!T.

Do you not remember COVID and the tanked economy of 2020?

We are teetering on the edge of WWIII because Putin and Iran need it to distract from their own domestic issues and are using Hamas and Ukraine as the patsies.

Reproductive rights were wiped away by the right wing Federalist Society and the judges their bought and paid for GOP Senators and Presidents installed on the court.

Wealth inequality is what the GOP wants and implemented a tax code to exacerbate it.

Homelessness is a result of the GOP closing down mental health services and facilities for decades.

Gun control is a legislative issue that the GOP has stood firm on. The Dems, along with 75% of the country support an assault weapons ban and impediments to those with mental illness from legally buying guns.

The Dems passed, with zero GOP support, the most consequential climate change bill in US history.

Both sides are the same and I am going to stay home so the GOP can gain more power.

Have fun with that.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Sure, let’s pretend that Trump isn't going to get the GOP nomination. Hell, they might not even have a convention (again).

Again, it’s a year away and a lot can happen in a year. Tell me why Biden had earned my vote on his own merits not as an attempt to level blame for a potential Trump win.

Not going to waste my time convincing anyone. The facts are there for your perusal - make of them what you will. But don't try and pretend that one of your choices tried to overthrow an election and is currently under four separate federal indictments.

You consider it a waste of time to convince people to vote for someone you’re sure is all that stands between us and certain doom. Gosh I can’t imagine why your candidate is falling in Democratic polls.

You Nader fans are pretty proud of your ability to resist reason and logic. Not sure why you want people to hit their head on a wall.

Try again. I voted for Biden in ‘20 and Clinton (reluctantly) in ‘16. In ‘20 Biden was campaigning with Warren and Sanders and doing outreach to the progressive wing of the party. In ‘23 he is rolling back workers benefits and ignoring rape victims (apparently) to help him stay in power. I am exactly who your candidate can’t lose, so if it’s a waste of time to convince me your candidate is in significant trouble.

I think the UAW would strongly disagree. Have you seen the pay increases they got at Ford and Chrysler?

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.

Trump is under multiple indictments, thus he might not be on the ballot. Trump is elderly. I am saying there’s a good chance Trump won’t be the boogeyman and there will need to be an affirmative case for Biden. Please read more carefully.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

Wrong if enough people support a third party it will impact the future elections and encourage more.

Sure! Why not make that third party Hamas? We see lots of support in the streets and on college campuses.

You’re being very tedious. There has not been one post in support of Hamas. Take this to the giant Gaza thread maybe?

Can you read? A few posts up someone is claiming Hamas doesn't use human shields.

It's your side that has difficulty supporting the Palestinian people without embracing Hamas. And it's why so many normal Dems like me have given the progressive left an Irish goodbye.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Plenty of great reasons to vote for Biden, as you surely know.

He's actually had a remarkably impactful term, one that has made (or will make) a positive difference in many people's lives.

But that doesn't matter to you: all that matters is your progressive purity test.

If it's not exactly perfectly 100% the way you want it, it's not good enough.

Sound like anyone you know? (Other than my 2 year old?)

Do you honestly think we're better off than 4 years ago? Teetering on the edge of WWIII, reproductive rights wiped away, wealth inequality at all time highs, homelessness becoming epidemic, depression suicide and despair at all time highs, nothing done on gun control, and more of the planet dying.

The Democrats have had chance after chance to do something. Every time they play games, do the tiniest little bit after giving away the store to Republicans, actively thwart progressive policies, and when election time comes, all they can say is we're not criminals ignore the fact that we're utterly ineffectual.

If we listen to you "incrementalism" people, we'll all burn along with the planet long before you get around to fixing the problem. I don't know how to make it any clearer. We DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR THIS BULLSH!T.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Sure, let’s pretend that Trump isn't going to get the GOP nomination. Hell, they might not even have a convention (again).

Again, it’s a year away and a lot can happen in a year. Tell me why Biden had earned my vote on his own merits not as an attempt to level blame for a potential Trump win.

Not going to waste my time convincing anyone. The facts are there for your perusal - make of them what you will. But don't try and pretend that one of your choices tried to overthrow an election and is currently under four separate federal indictments.

You consider it a waste of time to convince people to vote for someone you’re sure is all that stands between us and certain doom. Gosh I can’t imagine why your candidate is falling in Democratic polls.

You Nader fans are pretty proud of your ability to resist reason and logic. Not sure why you want people to hit their head on a wall.

Try again. I voted for Biden in ‘20 and Clinton (reluctantly) in ‘16. In ‘20 Biden was campaigning with Warren and Sanders and doing outreach to the progressive wing of the party. In ‘23 he is rolling back workers benefits and ignoring rape victims (apparently) to help him stay in power. I am exactly who your candidate can’t lose, so if it’s a waste of time to convince me your candidate is in significant trouble.

I think the UAW would strongly disagree. Have you seen the pay increases they got at Ford and Chrysler?

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

Went out the window when progressives cheered on/supported/justified the slaughter and rape of Jewish women and children.

Y'all crossed the line. You're the Proud Boys of the left.

Totally untouchable.

And on October 6th where was Biden’s outreach to progressives? In February when he was writing his SOTUS where was his concern for ten year old rape victims?

You mean other than immigration/borders, green energy, trans issues, and privileged access through Klain?

I care more about economic issues. Trans rights is easy. A single payer option, doing anything about wealth inequality, anything about housing affordability, and thing about the cost of health care or education. Those are hard and Biden avoided all of them. If anything Trump has more of a populist streak.

Biden has done a ton on these issues. If you are an honest broker, you would look up the legislation Biden proposed and the democrats passed (mostly without ANY GOP support) to see where things like health care costs and wealth inequality have been addressed. Biden also supported union workers, particularly those UAW who were on strike until very recently, having won gains to raise their compensation as compared to the C suite executives. He was able to get drug companies to the table with Medicaid negotiations (that the GOP is trying to undo) and his legislation increasing funding for public education and public housing block grants.

The bolded suggesting Biden has avoided these issues is just flat out wrong.

If he had a fair negotiation partner with the GOP, perhaps more could be done, but the GOP alternative is to let capitalism reign without guardrails, which means the little guy gets screwed at every turn. How is that better?

Trump supported the UAW too. That was easy. Talk to the railroad workers about Biden's union credentials

You mean the Railroad the GOP removed regulations causing deadly injuries?

If only Biden didn't bust their strike, they could have negotiated the protections they were asking for into their agreement. Biden being slightly better than trump isn't a reason to vote for him

We were trying to get out of a COVID economic shock. There was a national economic emergency as to why the railroad strike at that time would have been catastrophic. Remember the whole "supply chain" thing? We were in the middle of that.

Now that it appears as if inflation was in fact transitory, if the Railroad workers want to strike or bargain for more, by all means, go for it.

They can't. The contract he imposed has a no strike clause for the length of its term.

You don’t even know that the railroad workers got paid sick leave several months after the strike ended without having to strike again. https://www.npr.org/2023/02/10/1155763336/freight-rail-workers-union-paid-sick-leave-bernie-sanders-csx

Yay for them. Did they get the wage increases they demanded? Will they ever if their employers know a strike will get crushed by the president?

What I want to know is, does the President expect their votes? Does he think he’s earned them? Not “Trump is worse” but does President Biden think he has earned the votes of the rail workers in 2024? If not, what can he do to change that in the next year?

NP - above is exactly how I feel. Just because I don't want Trump does NOT mean Biden gets automatically my vote. Furthermore, I'm not convinced Trump as bad a man as he is, can really screw up on all fronts as badly as Biden on a number of fronts. I CANNOT - simply cannot believe no matter how "fit" and good intentioned Biden is, that at his age, it's a good idea for him to be POTUS and let me tell you something - I 1000% do not have any confidence in Kamala taking over. At this point, I also have my doubts that Trump is a lock because he seems to be/will continue to experience major legal headaches that prevent him from truly sweeping to POTUS victory. I think the changes are really strong that Biden does get re-elected BUT I tell you if there is even a remote Dem candidate that does not completely suck - that candidate gets my vote. Ditto for GOP candidate. I don't believe we are truly still reviewing GOP v Dem in this country as we are how right/left wing a candidate is. There are some crazy some nutjob liberal Dems who I equate to crazy conservative Reps!

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

There is not a single indictment that Biden is under. Please stop lying.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Yes! I don’t care about the two party system. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils. It is my freedom to vote for whoever I want to vote for and that can be a write in candidate. All those disgusted by Biden and Trump need to unite and vote for a third party or write in a candidate. Our votes are not for sale. You want us to vote for you…give us a reason to instead of just saying I’m not the other candidate. And all those saying if you don’t vote for Biden, Trump gets elected. Well make your candidate more electable….not our problem.

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Anonymous wrote:I used to be a Republican. I’m fiscally conservative and socially laissez-faire. I don’t really care what bathroom someone chooses or what happens between consenting adults. I’m also not alarmed by growing diversity in the electorate or political leadership. I’m so very tired of wokeness and the policing of what I say. Maybe you don’t agree with me and that’s ok, but that doesn’t make my views and feelings invalid. I think it’s not helpful to demonize people who don’t share your worldview, which seems to happen a lot among the left.

I don’t really like Biden and I think he’s too old. I have never liked Kamala Harris. But. Trump is simply not a leader. He’s a self-centered, blithering, treasonous moron. And worse he seems to have empowered a foolish group of grifters who don’t understand the concept of public service.

I wish there was a different choice. But I’d like our republic to last until the boomers die out and so I will vote for Biden.

See, you I believe to be everything you say. You I believe are representing yourself and your beliefs honestly and while I might disagree with you around the edges, overall you want America to keep going forward.

I’m a Democrat, always have been. I’m a flaming conservative to the Communists I used to know and a flaming liberal to the conservatives I know. I’m tired of what feels like annoying ash hippy liberals tweens (even the middle aged ones) policing me and my words but I think the world is stomping way too quickly towards a corporate friendly nothingness and the obliteration of small things (small businesses, small farms, small firms…).

I actually really do like Biden. Yeah he’s older than dirt and can be politician smarmy as hell but he gets it done. He was handed a total crap sandwich from the GOP and he’s planted flowers and native perennials in it, even as the GOP keeps heaping more crap on top. Kamala is not my favorite person but I sometimes wonder how much of that is what I actually think about her and internalized misogynoir. (I don’t think it’s “woke” to recognize that Black women, even Jamaican-American Black women with a metric ton of education and success, get kicked in the face more than a lot of other groups and to think about my role in that).

But I will walk over hot coals, I would make polite conversation with my maga relatives, I will do anything to vote for the Democrats. People who aren’t willing to help put the GOP into its grave do not grasp the severity of the situation.

If putting “the GOP into its grave” is at all important, you need a much, much bigger majority. It would be a mistake to expect that majority will be forthcoming without identifying some of the Democrats own misdirections and making amends. Make your own choices about what specifically the Democrats need to do, but realize they own much of this mess and anything less than that acknowledging will test the fates.

Democrats admit their mistakes. You need to look no further than Al Franken or the fire alarm guy. Things happen. The democrats don't circle the wagons the way the GOP does. As I just posted, of course the Biden Administration has made some mistakes...there isn't a presidential administration that hasn't.

But the GOP in its current form is a Frankenstein of theives, religious fantatics and power cravenness not seen in the US, probably ever. It needs a Watergate style electoral wipe out so it can be remade into some sort of conservative party based on actual limited government etc and not the selective limited government where ownership of women's bodies and who uses what bathrooms are a proxy for imposition of religious morals on the populace.

They do? In 2016 Hillary Clinton said all the women who accused her husband of sexual harassment were “crazy”. While running against a man who said everyone who accused him of sexual misconduct was crazy. Ever see anyone admitting that was a mistake?

Does Biden admit his decades of being only barely pro-choice were a mistake?

Look I want you to be right. It would be great if the Democrats are growing and evolving and learning from 2016. But the President said two sentences about abortion in the state of the union. Show me where he realizes he needs to adjust.

No, she didn’t. https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-bill-clinton-accusers/index.html Trump dredged it all up and the complicit corporate media happily ran with it. And you happily quote the rightest wing version of non-reality.

Then as a woman who claims to care about abortion access, you… are going to side with the forced birthers instead of the people who share your opinions but don’t talk about them strongly enough?

You and people like you are the reason for regression in this country.

Still the poster you’re quoting. Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean “siding with” Trump. It means Biden didn’t do enough to earn the votes. It was also true that Clinton did not do enough to earn the votes. That’s how politics works— you have to convince people to vote for you. Not just not vote for the other guy. And if you’re saying progressives didn’t learn enough from the Trump years, tell me, what did the Democrats learn from the 2016 defeat? In 2020 it looked like Biden learned to embrace the progressive wing of the party with his outreach to Sanders and Warren— where has that gone?

The problem is, not voting for Biden IS a vote for Trump. Voting third party is a vote for Trump. That is the reality of our elections right now.

So we all either stick with Biden, the judges and justices he will appoint, the 'normalcy" he is projecting, or else, we will have Trump, Trump will replace Thomas, and, if we are to believe his words, he will transform this country into a Russia-aligned Christian Theocracy.

So choose wisely.

I am still not voting for Biden. If it will be Trump next four years, let it be and let my party finally learn the lesson that they have not learned since Hillary.

Once Trump is in office, our country will be irreparably harmed. You saw what he tried to do when he lost after the first 4 years. He won't leave office again. He has already told us that. He will fully align the US with Russia, he will pull the US out of NATO and he will allow the Evangelicals to turn our country into a fundamentalist Christian nation.

but sure, "both sides"



that's teach the dems.

If the situation was so dire, you'd think the Democrats would actually listen to their constituents instead of promising more of the same. It obviously isn't *that* dire if it's the same games as always.

I guess you aren't paying attention to what Trump and Speaker Johnson are telling you. Oh well.

Stop pointing fingers at the other party. What has *your* party done to EARN profressive votes? You think you can just point at Trump and demand them, but it's not going to work this time. Your guy will lose, and he will lose because he alienated a growing wing of his party.

Passed a landmark green economy bill
Fully support workers rights and the right to collective bargaining
Brought big Pharma to the table to negotiate lower prices for consumers, and most particularly seniors
Raised SNAP and Social Security Benefits

I could go on.

Why is this, given the narrowest of margins in the House and Senate, not enough for a start?

Because none of it does what is actually needed. It's posturing. Democrats love to pat themselves on the back to for doing the absolute bare minimum, then stepping back letting Republicans undo it, and shrug and say welp we tried. It's all a game, bought and paid for by our corporate oligarchs.

The bare minimum? The Administration gets complaints from the right aboutnthe trillions of dollars passed by the administration to deal with these issues. So which is it, the bare minumum, or trillions of dollars? It can't be both.

The bare minimum. I said what I said. I'm not sure where you're confused.

NP. They’re confused because they uncritically buy into the ‘official’ framing of our problems and their trade-offs. To them, there’s one dimension and it goes from left to right and you just pic the right spot and “bam”, you have electoral success!

Many never get that the Democrats have their own fatted cows and oligarchic interests. The Democratic Party needs to re-direct their energies away from their fatted cows and oligarchs and back to the broad public. That’s the important trade-off they need to embrace, not some one-dimensional ideological trade off.

We have a two party system. the choices are binary. In 2024, the choices will be Trump or Biden.

Pick one.

I choose third party. This dualopoloy is BS. I will never stomach voting for Biden particularly as he has clearly sided with the "only Jewish lives matter" camp. I cannot condone that. My vote is my voice and this is all that I can do.

Biden has been more than crystal clear that he sides peace and he sides with the Palestinian people and the Israeli's. The enemy here is Hamas.

Sorry that you cannot see the nuance. Biden's words have been very clear and firm on this.

His actions speak far louder than any 5 minute speech he will ever give. He has given Israel carte blanche to murder Arabs indiscriminately - both after October 7 and the decades leading up to it. This did not start 2 weeks ago

I'm sure Palestinians will fare MUCH better with Trump.

Life is full of difficult choices.

This is hilarious. Telling people to vote for Biden because he's the morally qualified murderer.

At a minimum, Trump is completely open and honest. He says what he means. Biden is an abhorrent liar. I will not vote for either one.

You will vote for one of them, no matter what you do.

Feel free to pretend otherwise if it makes you feel more pure.

If Trump is not on the ballot, what is the reason to vote for Biden? It’s a year away, he’s under multiple indictments and he’s elderly. Tell me the positive case for Biden, not against Trump.

They can't. They'll just keep telling us we have no choice and calling us names.

If you keep voting for the same, you'll keep getting it.

Sure, let’s pretend that Trump isn't going to get the GOP nomination. Hell, they might not even have a convention (again).

Again, it’s a year away and a lot can happen in a year. Tell me why Biden had earned my vote on his own merits not as an attempt to level blame for a potential Trump win.

Not going to waste my time convincing anyone. The facts are there for your perusal - make of them what you will. But don't try and pretend that one of your choices tried to overthrow an election and is currently under four separate federal indictments.

You consider it a waste of time to convince people to vote for someone you’re sure is all that stands between us and certain doom. Gosh I can’t imagine why your candidate is falling in Democratic polls.

You Nader fans are pretty proud of your ability to resist reason and logic. Not sure why you want people to hit their head on a wall.

Try again. I voted for Biden in ‘20 and Clinton (reluctantly) in ‘16. In ‘20 Biden was campaigning with Warren and Sanders and doing outreach to the progressive wing of the party. In ‘23 he is rolling back workers benefits and ignoring rape victims (apparently) to help him stay in power. I am exactly who your candidate can’t lose, so if it’s a waste of time to convince me your candidate is in significant trouble.