Anonymous wrote:Also love the way the non-mask side has posted throughout this thread about how their potential to drop the mild safeguards they currently practice (almost begrudgingly!) such as staying home when they're sick (!), is the fault of the people who are more careful than they are.

Stop blaming other people for dropping your safeguards. You are the ones making those choices. Own it. Stop comparing yourselves to people making different choices than you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you call virtue signalling having to see people literally die and/or have a stroke in their 50s w/o any other underlying conditions other than a recent COVID infection, by all means, I'll own the virtue signalling.

The question is, why does it offend you?

I am about to be slammed in the hospital yet again because people like you get so offended by COVID.

Here is what I recommend:

1. Wear a well-fitting, high quality mask (KN95 or N95) during surges in all indoor settings when mixing with non household members.

2. Test before gathering with non-household members

3. Do 1 and 2 to keep schools and daycares open

4. Do 1 and 2 so I can do my job in hospitals.

Again, sorry if this offends you

OP here. Thank you for sharing. Speaking specially to your post, I appreciate you being specific about what you want. I'm sorry that things in healthcare settings are difficult right now. What "offends" me about your specific post is basically the implication that COVID (and the flu, and RSV) is the fault of anyone who is engaging in indoor dining in restaurants/indoor activities with people they don't know and can't be sure are testing. And I'm curious - aside from the fact that we're going on three years, which is a long time for people to avoid these types of activities (my child was 12 months old when the pandemic hit, which means these have been three very key years in her social development and yes it has impacted her very much), it also means that many businesses and their employees lose their livelihoods. I know I know, how can I possibly put MONEY above PEOPLE'S LIVES. I think that's a pretty dumb and selfish argument because you're not the one who can't put food on the table.

So I think we can agree that you think I am a terrible person, and I think that's quite unfair at this point.

NP. Pandemics, by their nature, are not "fair". They suck and they are tough to live through. There is a lot of collateral damage going on right now between sicker than normal school children, people in their 20s-40s having higher rates of cardiac arrest, and a high mortality rate for seniors. As someone who doesn't post about it but does still think it's a threat to the general population, it appears that you are annoyed by being reminded of that. I haven't eaten inside in three years, nor have my kids, but I'm not pointing fingers at my friends who have. But I do think that now during this triple-demic winter is a good time for many people to take measures to decrease viral spread - RSV, flu, and Covid are all surging. There is a lot of suffering going on, and it's obvious from just reading this topic daily. We all live in a society. I'm not here to demonize anyone, but at the same time you have to appreciate the burden on healthcare workers and do what you can from time to time to help them out. As viruses ebb and flow, we have to pivot. There is no steady state that "covid is over".

Of course pandemics are not "fair", nobody said they were. PEOPLE can be fair in how they judge people and what they put out into the world. You say you don't post about this, but you just did. You say you're not here to demonize anyone, but clearly you feel people shouldn't be going to any indoor public places unmasked right now, even if they are feeling well.

Sorry, but I have good reasons not to keep my child socially isolated on the weekends (she cannot wear a mask effectively and hates the cold). She has already paid a high enough price (a price which people like you NEVER acknowledge). That is not going to change. What I do think is reasonable is for people to stay home if they are sick and to be conservative about that. But when I see posts like yours, a part of me is like, f*ck it, clearly that's not enough so why try anyway?

Don't need an imagination to get there from here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you call virtue signalling having to see people literally die and/or have a stroke in their 50s w/o any other underlying conditions other than a recent COVID infection, by all means, I'll own the virtue signalling.

The question is, why does it offend you?

I am about to be slammed in the hospital yet again because people like you get so offended by COVID.

Here is what I recommend:

1. Wear a well-fitting, high quality mask (KN95 or N95) during surges in all indoor settings when mixing with non household members.

2. Test before gathering with non-household members

3. Do 1 and 2 to keep schools and daycares open

4. Do 1 and 2 so I can do my job in hospitals.

Again, sorry if this offends you

OP here. Thank you for sharing. Speaking specially to your post, I appreciate you being specific about what you want. I'm sorry that things in healthcare settings are difficult right now. What "offends" me about your specific post is basically the implication that COVID (and the flu, and RSV) is the fault of anyone who is engaging in indoor dining in restaurants/indoor activities with people they don't know and can't be sure are testing. And I'm curious - aside from the fact that we're going on three years, which is a long time for people to avoid these types of activities (my child was 12 months old when the pandemic hit, which means these have been three very key years in her social development and yes it has impacted her very much), it also means that many businesses and their employees lose their livelihoods. I know I know, how can I possibly put MONEY above PEOPLE'S LIVES. I think that's a pretty dumb and selfish argument because you're not the one who can't put food on the table.

So I think we can agree that you think I am a terrible person, and I think that's quite unfair at this point.

NP. Pandemics, by their nature, are not "fair". They suck and they are tough to live through. There is a lot of collateral damage going on right now between sicker than normal school children, people in their 20s-40s having higher rates of cardiac arrest, and a high mortality rate for seniors. As someone who doesn't post about it but does still think it's a threat to the general population, it appears that you are annoyed by being reminded of that. I haven't eaten inside in three years, nor have my kids, but I'm not pointing fingers at my friends who have. But I do think that now during this triple-demic winter is a good time for many people to take measures to decrease viral spread - RSV, flu, and Covid are all surging. There is a lot of suffering going on, and it's obvious from just reading this topic daily. We all live in a society. I'm not here to demonize anyone, but at the same time you have to appreciate the burden on healthcare workers and do what you can from time to time to help them out. As viruses ebb and flow, we have to pivot. There is no steady state that "covid is over".

Of course pandemics are not "fair", nobody said they were. PEOPLE can be fair in how they judge people and what they put out into the world. You say you don't post about this, but you just did. You say you're not here to demonize anyone, but clearly you feel people shouldn't be going to any indoor public places unmasked right now, even if they are feeling well.

Sorry, but I have good reasons not to keep my child socially isolated on the weekends (she cannot wear a mask effectively and hates the cold). She has already paid a high enough price (a price which people like you NEVER acknowledge). That is not going to change. What I do think is reasonable is for people to stay home if they are sick and to be conservative about that. But when I see posts like yours, a part of me is like, f*ck it, clearly that's not enough so why try anyway?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do expect people to do?
- Is it just about getting people to get a booster?
- wear a mask indefinitely (in which settings? A full day at school/work? Just the grocery store?)
- avoid any "optional" indoor social activities?
- Pull children out from in-person school/daycare?

1. Yes. Get your boosters.

2. Yes, wear a mask indoors in any setting that you know you will be encountering random people. It would be really nice of others to wear them in non-optional settings, like grocery stores, hospitals, doctors offices, and pharmacies, you know, where people with health issues have to go too. The masks are as much for your protection as to protect others. Not "indefinitely" only when cases are up, or during winter. In health care settings, yes, indefinitely.

3. Yes, avoid any "optional" indoor social activities, if you plan to be around older people or people with health issues. Otherwise, knock yourself out catching whatever is out there.

4. No, most kids are in daycare because they have to be.

So any child with elderly grandparents should avoid all "optional" indoor activities in the winter? That means weekends spent in windy cold weather or at home. I don't think you realize how extreme that is for families with young children. My parents who are very COVID cautious would never ask that of us.

Most people who live here (DC metro) are transplants who have parents and grandparents who live elsewhere, so yes...a week or so before visiting the grandparents, it would be advisable to stop all indoor maskless optional activities. They usually don't see their grandparents "all winter."

If the grandparents are local, then it's up to all of you to figure out how to handle the risk involved. Some grandparents don't care, so that's up to them. You do you.

My parents would look at me like I was crazy if I told them we were forcing our kids to give up activities to "protect" them. Of course, they were aghast at what people in this area made kids go through during the pandemic.

Yeah, my elderly relatives who are still alive are partying it up. They are not spending the last few years of their lives cooped up avoiding a virus. My step-grandmother is in her 80s and beat covid twice, goes out dancing regularly, just got remarried, and no there were no masks at the wedding!

I'm convinced that for many of the people going on about "protecting grandparents" it's more about martyrdom.

Wait I thought the martyrs in this thread were the people picking up the pieces of their childrens' lives destabilized by covid and trying to move forward, bravely, without masks, and despite the perceived scornful looks of the masked oracles warning of latent health effects? I must be getting confused...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents wouldn’t ask for it but they sure as Hades do not want COVID. And at 75 years old, they are right.

Of course they don't want COVID, neither do mine. That's why they are double boosted and wear masks when they can. We all have all shots we can get. But we all care about DD, which means she gets to have fun on the weekends.

Those things, by themselves, are not sufficient for your parents to avoid COVID.

And nobody is saying that your child should not have fun on weekends, what a ridiculous straw man.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do expect people to do?
- Is it just about getting people to get a booster?
- wear a mask indefinitely (in which settings? A full day at school/work? Just the grocery store?)
- avoid any "optional" indoor social activities?
- Pull children out from in-person school/daycare?

1. Yes. Get your boosters.

2. Yes, wear a mask indoors in any setting that you know you will be encountering random people. It would be really nice of others to wear them in non-optional settings, like grocery stores, hospitals, doctors offices, and pharmacies, you know, where people with health issues have to go too. The masks are as much for your protection as to protect others. Not "indefinitely" only when cases are up, or during winter. In health care settings, yes, indefinitely.

3. Yes, avoid any "optional" indoor social activities, if you plan to be around older people or people with health issues. Otherwise, knock yourself out catching whatever is out there.

4. No, most kids are in daycare because they have to be.

So any child with elderly grandparents should avoid all "optional" indoor activities in the winter? That means weekends spent in windy cold weather or at home. I don't think you realize how extreme that is for families with young children. My parents who are very COVID cautious would never ask that of us.

Most people who live here (DC metro) are transplants who have parents and grandparents who live elsewhere, so yes...a week or so before visiting the grandparents, it would be advisable to stop all indoor maskless optional activities. They usually don't see their grandparents "all winter."

If the grandparents are local, then it's up to all of you to figure out how to handle the risk involved. Some grandparents don't care, so that's up to them. You do you.

My parents would look at me like I was crazy if I told them we were forcing our kids to give up activities to "protect" them. Of course, they were aghast at what people in this area made kids go through during the pandemic.

Yeah, my elderly relatives who are still alive are partying it up. They are not spending the last few years of their lives cooped up avoiding a virus. My step-grandmother is in her 80s and beat covid twice, goes out dancing regularly, just got remarried, and no there were no masks at the wedding!

I'm convinced that for many of the people going on about "protecting grandparents" it's more about martyrdom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents wouldn’t ask for it but they sure as Hades do not want COVID. And at 75 years old, they are right.

Of course they don't want COVID, neither do mine. That's why they are double boosted and wear masks when they can. We all have all shots we can get. But we all care about DD, which means she gets to have fun on the weekends.

Those things, by themselves, are not sufficient for your parents to avoid COVID.

And nobody is saying that your child should not have fun on weekends, what a ridiculous straw man.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do expect people to do?
- Is it just about getting people to get a booster?
- wear a mask indefinitely (in which settings? A full day at school/work? Just the grocery store?)
- avoid any "optional" indoor social activities?
- Pull children out from in-person school/daycare?

1. Yes. Get your boosters.

2. Yes, wear a mask indoors in any setting that you know you will be encountering random people. It would be really nice of others to wear them in non-optional settings, like grocery stores, hospitals, doctors offices, and pharmacies, you know, where people with health issues have to go too. The masks are as much for your protection as to protect others. Not "indefinitely" only when cases are up, or during winter. In health care settings, yes, indefinitely.

3. Yes, avoid any "optional" indoor social activities, if you plan to be around older people or people with health issues. Otherwise, knock yourself out catching whatever is out there.

4. No, most kids are in daycare because they have to be.

So any child with elderly grandparents should avoid all "optional" indoor activities in the winter? That means weekends spent in windy cold weather or at home. I don't think you realize how extreme that is for families with young children. My parents who are very COVID cautious would never ask that of us.

Most people who live here (DC metro) are transplants who have parents and grandparents who live elsewhere, so yes...a week or so before visiting the grandparents, it would be advisable to stop all indoor maskless optional activities. They usually don't see their grandparents "all winter."

If the grandparents are local, then it's up to all of you to figure out how to handle the risk involved. Some grandparents don't care, so that's up to them. You do you.

My parents would look at me like I was crazy if I told them we were forcing our kids to give up activities to "protect" them. Of course, they were aghast at what people in this area made kids go through during the pandemic.

Yeah, my elderly relatives who are still alive are partying it up. They are not spending the last few years of their lives cooped up avoiding a virus. My step-grandmother is in her 80s and beat covid twice, goes out dancing regularly, just got remarried, and no there were no masks at the wedding!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do expect people to do?
- Is it just about getting people to get a booster?
- wear a mask indefinitely (in which settings? A full day at school/work? Just the grocery store?)
- avoid any "optional" indoor social activities?
- Pull children out from in-person school/daycare?

1. Yes. Get your boosters.

2. Yes, wear a mask indoors in any setting that you know you will be encountering random people. It would be really nice of others to wear them in non-optional settings, like grocery stores, hospitals, doctors offices, and pharmacies, you know, where people with health issues have to go too. The masks are as much for your protection as to protect others. Not "indefinitely" only when cases are up, or during winter. In health care settings, yes, indefinitely.

3. Yes, avoid any "optional" indoor social activities, if you plan to be around older people or people with health issues. Otherwise, knock yourself out catching whatever is out there.

4. No, most kids are in daycare because they have to be.

So any child with elderly grandparents should avoid all "optional" indoor activities in the winter? That means weekends spent in windy cold weather or at home. I don't think you realize how extreme that is for families with young children. My parents who are very COVID cautious would never ask that of us.

Most people who live here (DC metro) are transplants who have parents and grandparents who live elsewhere, so yes...a week or so before visiting the grandparents, it would be advisable to stop all indoor maskless optional activities. They usually don't see their grandparents "all winter."

If the grandparents are local, then it's up to all of you to figure out how to handle the risk involved. Some grandparents don't care, so that's up to them. You do you.

My parents would look at me like I was crazy if I told them we were forcing our kids to give up activities to "protect" them. Of course, they were aghast at what people in this area made kids go through during the pandemic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do expect people to do?
- Is it just about getting people to get a booster?
- wear a mask indefinitely (in which settings? A full day at school/work? Just the grocery store?)
- avoid any "optional" indoor social activities?
- Pull children out from in-person school/daycare?

1. Yes. Get your boosters.

2. Yes, wear a mask indoors in any setting that you know you will be encountering random people. It would be really nice of others to wear them in non-optional settings, like grocery stores, hospitals, doctors offices, and pharmacies, you know, where people with health issues have to go too. The masks are as much for your protection as to protect others. Not "indefinitely" only when cases are up, or during winter. In health care settings, yes, indefinitely.

3. Yes, avoid any "optional" indoor social activities, if you plan to be around older people or people with health issues. Otherwise, knock yourself out catching whatever is out there.

4. No, most kids are in daycare because they have to be.

So any child with elderly grandparents should avoid all "optional" indoor activities in the winter? That means weekends spent in windy cold weather or at home. I don't think you realize how extreme that is for families with young children. My parents who are very COVID cautious would never ask that of us.

Most people who live here (DC metro) are transplants who have parents and grandparents who live elsewhere, so yes...a week or so before visiting the grandparents, it would be advisable to stop all indoor maskless optional activities. They usually don't see their grandparents "all winter."

If the grandparents are local, then it's up to all of you to figure out how to handle the risk involved. Some grandparents don't care, so that's up to them. You do you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents wouldn’t ask for it but they sure as Hades do not want COVID. And at 75 years old, they are right.

Of course they don't want COVID, neither do mine. That's why they are double boosted and wear masks when they can. We all have all shots we can get. But we all care about DD, which means she gets to have fun on the weekends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do expect people to do?
- Is it just about getting people to get a booster?
- wear a mask indefinitely (in which settings? A full day at school/work? Just the grocery store?)
- avoid any "optional" indoor social activities?
- Pull children out from in-person school/daycare?

1. Yes. Get your boosters.

2. Yes, wear a mask indoors in any setting that you know you will be encountering random people. It would be really nice of others to wear them in non-optional settings, like grocery stores, hospitals, doctors offices, and pharmacies, you know, where people with health issues have to go too. The masks are as much for your protection as to protect others. Not "indefinitely" only when cases are up, or during winter. In health care settings, yes, indefinitely.

3. Yes, avoid any "optional" indoor social activities, if you plan to be around older people or people with health issues. Otherwise, knock yourself out catching whatever is out there.

4. No, most kids are in daycare because they have to be.

So any child with elderly grandparents should avoid all "optional" indoor activities in the winter? That means weekends spent in windy cold weather or at home. I don't think you realize how extreme that is for families with young children. My parents who are very COVID cautious would never ask that of us.

Most people who live here (DC metro) are transplants who have parents and grandparents who live elsewhere, so yes...a week or so before visiting the grandparents, it would be advisable to stop all indoor maskless optional activities. They usually don't see their grandparents "all winter."

If the grandparents are local, then it's up to all of you to figure out how to handle the risk involved. Some grandparents don't care, so that's up to them. You do you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do expect people to do?
- Is it just about getting people to get a booster?
- wear a mask indefinitely (in which settings? A full day at school/work? Just the grocery store?)
- avoid any "optional" indoor social activities?
- Pull children out from in-person school/daycare?

1. Yes. Get your boosters.

2. Yes, wear a mask indoors in any setting that you know you will be encountering random people. It would be really nice of others to wear them in non-optional settings, like grocery stores, hospitals, doctors offices, and pharmacies, you know, where people with health issues have to go too. The masks are as much for your protection as to protect others. Not "indefinitely" only when cases are up, or during winter. In health care settings, yes, indefinitely.

3. Yes, avoid any "optional" indoor social activities, if you plan to be around older people or people with health issues. Otherwise, knock yourself out catching whatever is out there.

4. No, most kids are in daycare because they have to be.

So any child with elderly grandparents should avoid all "optional" indoor activities in the winter? That means weekends spent in windy cold weather or at home. I don't think you realize how extreme that is for families with young children. My parents who are very COVID cautious would never ask that of us.

So how does covid-19 fit in to what we’re experiencing, especially since most Americans have been infected in the latest omicron waves?

Bhattacharya, the immunologist at the University of Arizona, said there have been questions about whether a bout with covid might impair one’s ability to fight other pathogens after small studies showed changes in immune cells. However, he said, “only a few studies found very, very few changes that last, and others have found nothing at all.”

Moore said it’s important to distinguish between individuals who are suffering from long covid who have all kinds of perturbations in their bodies, not just their immune systems, and long-term changes in population immunity. He called the idea of covid-induced immune deficiency, that covid-19 can act like HIV or measles, which are notoriously immunosuppressive, “fringe.”

“I’m not buying that idea,” Moore said. “It’s not supported by solid data.”