Serious question after having followed this thread for a bit. What do we think the overlap is between people who bash schools like BASIS and those who lament the sorry state of education at DCPS?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

Unclear, actually. Within schools it would likely increase racial divisions between classes/tracks. Between schools? I actually think you’d see more diversity at many schools if tracking was available.

I dunno. I mean, you don't have to have actual "tracking" at the middle school level-- in theory it's possible to have more fluid ability groupings and keep kids physically together with differentiated assignments, so that if you aren't on the high "track" at first you can still get on it later. The idea is to avoid making it hard for kids to increase their level as they are able. It just takes a lot of teaching staff, and that means it's costly. But if DCPS were more willing to provide high-ability coursework in one way or another, it might be able to get back some of the high-performing POC kids that currently go to charters or privates.

The reason many high-performing POC kids go to charters, privates, and the suburbs is also why differentiation at the MS+ level is impractical— because for many kids performing below grade level, it’s not really an academic problem. It’s behavioral. It’s not that these kids are mentally incapable of performing at grade level, it’s that they are unmotivated, lack proper parental supports, and often have behavioral issues that distract from learning. And that impacts other kids, the teachers, the whole school.

I grew up in a public school system with these same issues. Back then, it was addressed by moving the most disruptive students into separate classes with teachers trained to address these issues. We even had an “alternative” high school for at risk kids who were not able to adequately perform in traditional classrooms. It also provided special services for teen parents— a close friend of mine who was strong academically transferred there because she had a baby at 16 and they offered on site childcare and parenting classes.

This approach is out of favor, and now most school districts seek to integrate at risk and disruptive kids as much as possible. Segregating them is stigmatizing and often worsens their issues. But there is upside, not just for academic superstars but especially for students who are at or even below grade level and need extra help. Those are often the kids who lose the most in integrated classrooms because if they are well behaved, they get ignored.

It’s an old educational problem. My old district segregated out the under-achievers and at-risk kids. Proponents of tracking and honors programs want to segregate the high achievers. DCPS does neither, so families segregate themselves via charters, private schools, and moving. In schools where at risk kids outnumber high achievers, this is particularly likely.

I think this a fair summary and identification of the issues and trade-offs. The bolded sentence is the crux of the issue. DC seems to care so much about the kids with behavioral problems and not very much about the disruptions to educational environments they create. As a result, a lot of high performing kids (both black and white) and those with means opt for private or charter. The result is a less diverse (more black, more ELL, more FARMs) population almost everywhere but a few WOTP schools. DCPS (and some of the usual suspects on DCUM) are happy to lower expectations and educational outcomes in the name of some perversion of "equity". What they've done is create environments that provide lessor quality educations to everyone who can't afford IB for Deal/Hardy or private.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

Absolutely wrong. An appropriate curriculum would increase integration of IB MS and HS. Do you even reallze how segregated IB schools are now? Look at some data before you make false accusations of racism.

Absolutely right to the politicians and city voting blocks that matter.

EotP, go charter, go private, move or half home school your kid enrolled in a DCPS MS. Those are your options. Those will be your options for the next decade. Pointless to think otherwise.

Please, show me the politicians and voting blocks that are happy with the W6, 7 & 8 HS and MS options? And also tell me where they send their kids to school. And if their kids are, say, one of the 1% at Kramer MS that scored 5 on the PARCC Math, whether they would like that child to have access to better opportunities.

We’re in Ward 5 and also not happy with our MS/HS options, plus our DCPS ESs don’t perform as well as those in Ward 6. Yes, a lot of popular charters are located in Ward 5, but they are nearly impossible to get into— at least some of the Ward 7 and 8 charters have shorter waitlists.

I don’t post this to say Wards 6/7/8 have it great — I wouldn’t send my kid to Eastern or Anacostia HSs either. But this is a city wide issue. It’s not unique to Capitol Hill.

Look at data on low SES and AA charter enrollment for Wards 5, 6, 7 and 8 for your answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

Absolutely wrong. An appropriate curriculum would increase integration of IB MS and HS. Do you even reallze how segregated IB schools are now? Look at some data before you make false accusations of racism.

Absolutely right to the politicians and city voting blocks that matter.

EotP, go charter, go private, move or half home school your kid enrolled in a DCPS MS. Those are your options. Those will be your options for the next decade. Pointless to think otherwise.

Please, show me the politicians and voting blocks that are happy with the W6, 7 & 8 HS and MS options? And also tell me where they send their kids to school. And if their kids are, say, one of the 1% at Kramer MS that scored 5 on the PARCC Math, whether they would like that child to have access to better opportunities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

Absolutely wrong. An appropriate curriculum would increase integration of IB MS and HS. Do you even reallze how segregated IB schools are now? Look at some data before you make false accusations of racism.

Absolutely right to the politicians and city voting blocks that matter.

EotP, go charter, go private, move or half home school your kid enrolled in a DCPS MS. Those are your options. Those will be your options for the next decade. Pointless to think otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

OK, but how much more segregation could there be in DCPS middle and high schools EotP under the current arrangement? Not much.

The demographic data tells the story. No DCPS school EotP attracts more than a white % in the teens, even in catchment areas that have been majority white for at least 15 years now. Moreover, no DCPS middle or high school EotP attracts more than 1% Asian students. In MoCo, there are public middle schools that are one-third Asian.

Preventing the introduction of advanced classes in DCPS middle schools in this city, other than for math and foreign languages (sort of, advanced languages aren't taught in DCPS) just isn't working in the effort to desegregate schools. Time to try a new approach that might actually work.

Anonymous wrote:Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

Absolutely wrong. An appropriate curriculum would increase integration of IB MS and HS. Do you even reallze how segregated IB schools are now? Look at some data before you make false accusations of racism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not directing this comment at anyone in particular, but it’s rather ironic when people call for more tracking at Stuart-Hobson.

Anyone who knows who Mr. Hobson was should understand why.

Any anyone who actually knows the facts of the case and the conclusions would roll their eyes at your complete misunderstanding and misapplication of the principles applied by the court to tracking in this context. If you think it is racist to have advanced classes because having advanced classes excludes black students then you and the white supremacists have something in common - you both think intellectual pursuits are reserved for whites.

Next time read the whole case before you embarrass yourself.

exactly. imagine believing that there are no Black kids who would benefit from grade level or advanced classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

Unclear, actually. Within schools it would likely increase racial divisions between classes/tracks. Between schools? I actually think you’d see more diversity at many schools if tracking was available.

I dunno. I mean, you don't have to have actual "tracking" at the middle school level-- in theory it's possible to have more fluid ability groupings and keep kids physically together with differentiated assignments, so that if you aren't on the high "track" at first you can still get on it later. The idea is to avoid making it hard for kids to increase their level as they are able. It just takes a lot of teaching staff, and that means it's costly. But if DCPS were more willing to provide high-ability coursework in one way or another, it might be able to get back some of the high-performing POC kids that currently go to charters or privates.

The reason many high-performing POC kids go to charters, privates, and the suburbs is also why differentiation at the MS+ level is impractical— because for many kids performing below grade level, it’s not really an academic problem. It’s behavioral. It’s not that these kids are mentally incapable of performing at grade level, it’s that they are unmotivated, lack proper parental supports, and often have behavioral issues that distract from learning. And that impacts other kids, the teachers, the whole school.

I grew up in a public school system with these same issues. Back then, it was addressed by moving the most disruptive students into separate classes with teachers trained to address these issues. We even had an “alternative” high school for at risk kids who were not able to adequately perform in traditional classrooms. It also provided special services for teen parents— a close friend of mine who was strong academically transferred there because she had a baby at 16 and they offered on site childcare and parenting classes.

This approach is out of favor, and now most school districts seek to integrate at risk and disruptive kids as much as possible. Segregating them is stigmatizing and often worsens their issues. But there is upside, not just for academic superstars but especially for students who are at or even below grade level and need extra help. Those are often the kids who lose the most in integrated classrooms because if they are well behaved, they get ignored.

It’s an old educational problem. My old district segregated out the under-achievers and at-risk kids. Proponents of tracking and honors programs want to segregate the high achievers. DCPS does neither, so families segregate themselves via charters, private schools, and moving. In schools where at risk kids outnumber high achievers, this is particularly likely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

Unclear, actually. Within schools it would likely increase racial divisions between classes/tracks. Between schools? I actually think you’d see more diversity at many schools if tracking was available.

I dunno. I mean, you don't have to have actual "tracking" at the middle school level-- in theory it's possible to have more fluid ability groupings and keep kids physically together with differentiated assignments, so that if you aren't on the high "track" at first you can still get on it later. The idea is to avoid making it hard for kids to increase their level as they are able. It just takes a lot of teaching staff, and that means it's costly. But if DCPS were more willing to provide high-ability coursework in one way or another, it might be able to get back some of the high-performing POC kids that currently go to charters or privates.

Anonymous wrote:Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

Unclear, actually. Within schools it would likely increase racial divisions between classes/tracks. Between schools? I actually think you’d see more diversity at many schools if tracking was available.

Given the huge demographic income disparities in DC, do you honestly believe that what some “UMC” folks are calling for would not result in more de facto segregation in DC schools?

And do you not think it’s ironic that some are specifically calling for this at the school named in honor of Mr. Hobson?

Anonymous wrote:I’m not directing this comment at anyone in particular, but it’s rather ironic when people call for more tracking at Stuart-Hobson.

Anyone who knows who Mr. Hobson was should understand why.

Any anyone who actually knows the facts of the case and the conclusions would roll their eyes at your complete misunderstanding and misapplication of the principles applied by the court to tracking in this context. If you think it is racist to have advanced classes because having advanced classes excludes black students then you and the white supremacists have something in common - you both think intellectual pursuits are reserved for whites.

Next time read the whole case before you embarrass yourself.

I’m not directing this comment at anyone in particular, but it’s rather ironic when people call for more tracking at Stuart-Hobson.

Anyone who knows who Mr. Hobson was should understand why.