Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, in yesterday's MN police news...

An officer attempting to make a traffic stop in Hutchinson, Minn., was dragged by the suspect driver and struck in the head with a hammer during the altercation. The injured officer, who has not been identified, was hospitalized with injuries, but was in stable condition as of late Wednesday, April 14. The suspect, 61-year-old Luke Alvin Oeltjenbruns, of Hutchinson, was arrested at the scene after the assault.

Let's all guess Mr. Oeltjenbruns's race.

But yeah, Black people need to learn how to follow police orders...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05_7wYUh5dw

EVERYONE has to follow police orders.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Years ago a white college student who grew up in my area was murdered. She pulled over for someone impersonating a cop on a highway at 1am.
After that happened, it was DRILLED into us - a bunch of young white women - that we should never, ever, ever pull over for someone if we're on a quiet road at night. If a cop tries to pull us over, we should slow down but keep driving to someplace well lit and well populated.

Is that fleeing? Is that resisting arrest? Would that get me killed?
No to all of those, because I'm a tiny white lady.

When a black person gets pulled over, he has a reasonable reason to be fearful of the cop. I have a hard time blaming someone trying to get out of a scary situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's so easy to lie with statistics, isn't it?
In 2020, 457 white people were killed by police, compared to 241 black people. So yes - more white people than black.
Considering the population of the country, though, that means that black people are MORE THAN THREE TIMES likely to get killed by another black person than a white person or cop.

Not great odds.

Change the word "white" to "black" and run the numbers, rocket scientist.

I actually am a rocket scientist, and I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. "black people are more than three times likely to get killed by a cop than a "black person". That's a non sensible statement.

Perhaps you have a point you're trying to make, but you didn't make it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Except, that’s not procedure. Please find me one jurisdiction that says that. Police use force when they feel a threat to their safety and the safety of others, which is what happened here. In addition, when you have a court ordered warrant, you are permitted to use force to effectuate an arrest.

Anonymous wrote:"Don't make me kill you"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Years ago a white college student who grew up in my area was murdered. She pulled over for someone impersonating a cop on a highway at 1am.
After that happened, it was DRILLED into us - a bunch of young white women - that we should never, ever, ever pull over for someone if we're on a quiet road at night. If a cop tries to pull us over, we should slow down but keep driving to someplace well lit and well populated.

Is that fleeing? Is that resisting arrest? Would that get me killed?
No to all of those, because I'm a tiny white lady.

When a black person gets pulled over, he has a reasonable reason to be fearful of the cop. I have a hard time blaming someone trying to get out of a scary situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Except, that’s not procedure. Please find me one jurisdiction that says that. Police use force when they feel a threat to their safety and the safety of others, which is what happened here. In addition, when you have a court ordered warrant, you are permitted to use force to effectuate an arrest.

you should call the local prosecutor and explain that to them since clearly you are more familiar with Minnesota criminal law than they are

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Years ago a white college student who grew up in my area was murdered. She pulled over for someone impersonating a cop on a highway at 1am.
After that happened, it was DRILLED into us - a bunch of young white women - that we should never, ever, ever pull over for someone if we're on a quiet road at night. If a cop tries to pull us over, we should slow down but keep driving to someplace well lit and well populated.

Is that fleeing? Is that resisting arrest? Would that get me killed?
No to all of those, because I'm a tiny white lady.

When a black person gets pulled over, he has a reasonable reason to be fearful of the cop. I have a hard time blaming someone trying to get out of a scary situation.

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, in yesterday's MN police news...

An officer attempting to make a traffic stop in Hutchinson, Minn., was dragged by the suspect driver and struck in the head with a hammer during the altercation. The injured officer, who has not been identified, was hospitalized with injuries, but was in stable condition as of late Wednesday, April 14. The suspect, 61-year-old Luke Alvin Oeltjenbruns, of Hutchinson, was arrested at the scene after the assault.

Let's all guess Mr. Oeltjenbruns's race.

But yeah, Black people need to learn how to follow police orders...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05_7wYUh5dw

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's so easy to lie with statistics, isn't it?
In 2020, 457 white people were killed by police, compared to 241 black people. So yes - more white people than black.
Considering the population of the country, though, that means that black people are MORE THAN THREE TIMES likely to get killed by a cop than a white person.

Not great odds.

Change the word "white" to "black" and run the numbers, rocket scientist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Except, that’s not procedure. Please find me one jurisdiction that says that. Police use force when they feel a threat to their safety and the safety of others, which is what happened here. In addition, when you have a court ordered warrant, you are permitted to use force to effectuate an arrest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.

Nobody is saying anybody should “resist arrest”.., but it happens. When it happens follow procedure. If it’s a misdemeanor... get them later, do not use force, do not chase.

All anybody is asking is gor police to be trained properly snd follow police training.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don’t see the criminal intent or criminal behavior on the part of the police officer. A terrible and tragic mistake, yes. In no other profession would someone be held to these same standards. A infantryman accidentally shooting another soldier (it’s called friendly fire), a driver stepping on the gas instead of the brake and hitting a pedestrian (it’s called an unfortunate accident), a paramedic, doctor or EMT not doing something correctly (it’s called a mistake or malpractice), but with a cop, it’s automatically criminal...

Soldiers do get prosecuted sometimes for friendly fire. https://www.baltimoresun.com/sdut-marine-tanker-charged-friendly-fire-shooting-afgha-2012jan19-story.html
A driver hitting the gas instead of the brake will be prosecuted. https://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/03/20/westwood-anne-marie-mcinnis-eddie-thomson-fatal-crash-sun-glare-accident/
Michael Jackson's doctor was convicted of manslaughter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Murray

And, no, for a cop it is NOT automatically criminal - that's been the problem. Ever hear of Breonna Taylor?

I don’t think criminal prosecution was warranted in that case either. George Floyd, yes.

People should read all of the articles that quote law professors at law schools in that state. All say the prosecution is going to be hard or is not viable:

Richard Frase, a professor of criminal law at the University of Minnesota, said the second-degree manslaughter statute is worded narrowly enough that the case might prove difficult for prosecutors to prove, noting that it requires them to show that Ms. Potter consciously took a chance of “causing death or great bodily harm.”

“She thinks she’s firing a Taser,” he said of the former officer. “How can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she consciously took chances of at least causing great bodily harm?”

In other words they have to prove she intended to cause him great harm. She intended to use non-lethal force. What she used is not relevant to the elements of the crime. Her intent is the element. Her intent is pretty clear.

This.

The media should use this tragic incident to distinguish it from other recent incidents that were clearly more recklessly egregious.

This incident was not racially motivated. The media should explain that.

Someone I know irl posted something along the lines of, “I don’t know which is worse: the performative solidarity by white people or their silence.” About this incident? Really?

How do you know if it is racial. You know for a fact she would have tased a white female in the same situation?

That’s not for us to judge.

Stick to the facts: the cops were placing him under arrest, he resisted and hopped in the car to flee.

The police should just shrug their shoulders and let him go?

Of course not.

Use of a taser was appropriate.

Unfortunately, the cop made a fatal mistake.

Do you really think cops shouldn’t be allowed to ever arrest people just because they are black? That seems to be the new standard.

DP. I do think a lot of people are promoting the idea that black people should be allowed to resist arrest. That’s a double standard that ultimately won’t be in anyone’s best interest.