Anonymous wrote:Lot of rice white and so-called liberal thinkers on the defensive on this thread, Jeff in particular. Self-reflection can be tough. You can criticize the methods behind this report all you want, but there is more than a kernel of truth to it to conclusions. Jeff, you are making money off of rich white folks. That’s just the way it is.

I commend to all of you the recent New York Times bestseller “white fragility: why it’s so hard for white people to talk about racism.” Many of you, in particular the moderator of this website, could learn from it.

Anonymous wrote:and maybe it's too late but instead of retreating into a defensive crouch about a report that as you said pretty much pointed out the obvious you could like ask the author for her expert advice. unless you know of anyone else who bothered to do a systematic quantitative analysis of your community. i understand why you feel hurt by saying that the community you're proud of isn't pretty. but what is?

(side point: it's too bad and not helpful tho not a surprise that most of the media coverage is "look how terrible DCUM is" when the report clearly doesn't care about DCUM but about the way that privileged white parents talk about schools and used DCUM as a window into that. the alternative would be to bug playgrounds or monitor private Facebook groups or conduct thousands of long-form surveys and interviews. it would have been nicer for the authors to explicitly thank you and praise DCUM for being a valuable resource for research by being a public forum.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of rice white and so-called liberal thinkers on the defensive on this thread, Jeff in particular. Self-reflection can be tough. You can criticize the methods behind this report all you want, but there is more than a kernel of truth to it to conclusions. Jeff, you are making money off of rich white folks. That’s just the way it is.

I commend to all of you the recent New York Times bestseller “white fragility: why it’s so hard for white people to talk about racism.” Many of you, in particular the moderator of this website, could learn from it.

+1
As a teacher who was previously really pissed off from being called racist, it takes time to and a willingness to accept your imperfections to realize you are contributing to the problems instead of the solutions. Proud to be working hard to come out on the other side. Parents on here who are upset, I get that nobody likes the stigma, but you also have some reflecting to do.

No thanks. The accusations of being racist here are unfounded. Our IB HS is Eastern. It’s not racist to look for other options. And DCUM as a whole plays a strong role in *encouraging* parents to consider majority minority schools in DC. I actually believe DCUM deserves credit for allowing parents to exchange information that leads to enrollement in IB schools like Van Ness.

Baloney. Very few DCUM parents have their kids in majority minority schools, particularly when the minority in question is black. You are cherry picking and are too fragile to self-reflect, and we aren’t going to get anywhere until more people like you do.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned the obvious - because the DCUM community is a "group of largely white, largely affluent posters who primarily live in largely white, largely affluent neighborhoods", it doesn't matter whether individual participants are racist or anti-racist or whatever. It's not a "bunch of segregationists" or a "bunch of Klan members" (jsteele's characterization of how the study portrays DCUM) but is a community segregated from other communities in DC by race, class, and geography.

jsteele knows that DCUM is a forum for rich white people who live in rich white neighborhoods and seems to be 100% fine with that, since he keeps bringing it up and acting like it's no big deal.

(OK one person noticed this: "you know your demo because that is what you sell to advertisers. and the fact that your site isn't inclusive is what they are studying")

The problem isn't the individuals. It's the community. And it's the community jsteele wants. Maybe that's why he's so defensive about and feels personally targeted by a study that exposes his community's failings - it ends up being an accurate study of his failings.

Maybe I should be nicer and protect jsteele's feelings so that it's easier for him to hear.

But I have enough respect for his ability to act like an adult and think about the idea of taking action to make DCUM be a forum that is for the entire city of Washington DC and not only its rich white neighborhoods.

I love when posters are honest and treat me like the adult that I am. So, thank you PP. I appreciate your post. Since you were honest, I will also be honest. The DCUM community is heavily represented by white, affluent, well-educated women. Of course that is not representative of the entire community, but that describes the core. And, you know what? I am very proud of that community. I have always said that I will put the DCUM community up against any other online community. My pride is not due to their race, wealth, gender, or education, though I appreciate all of those things. I am proud because for over 15 years they have consistently and ably responded to complete strangers with whom they may have nothing in common to offer support and assistance. They are funny, entertaining, extremely helpful, and, let's face it, sometimes really big pains in the ass. But, this is a great community and nobody will change my mind about that.

You are right about another thing. Our audience is an extremely marketable demographic. But, do you know what I did to create that audience? Nothing. Do you know what I do to maintain it? Nothing. Let's be honest. I am male. I don't make law partner money and am not in the same socio-economic class as many of our users (though I make more than I deserve). I am rude and frequently piss off our users. There is no good explanation for how I could create such a community which I hope makes it easy to believe the truth, which is that I didn't. I'm just the guy who serves the drinks and washes the glasses and occasionally tosses out a disruptive customer.

I've have made efforts to attract other voices to the forum. But, we don't have an advertising budget and never have had. We do no marketing. This community was created organically, more often in spite of me than because of me. I wish it would grow to include others and I think it has, though not to the extent that I would like.

I know that it is pretty common to think "Jeff just has to do this and that will happen", but that doesn't even work with my kids, let alone an audience of hundreds of thousands. If I really could control segregation in the District, I would be selling corporate sponsorships for weekly school desegregation's. You know, "This week's school desegregation brought to you by AT&T. Enroll your white, upper class kid in this Title 1 school. It's safe, secure, and reliable, just like AT&T's mobile service." But, things don't work that way.

I am happy to work with you to help expand our user base. Just let me know how I can help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of rice white and so-called liberal thinkers on the defensive on this thread, Jeff in particular. Self-reflection can be tough. You can criticize the methods behind this report all you want, but there is more than a kernel of truth to it to conclusions. Jeff, you are making money off of rich white folks. That’s just the way it is.

I commend to all of you the recent New York Times bestseller “white fragility: why it’s so hard for white people to talk about racism.” Many of you, in particular the moderator of this website, could learn from it.

+1
As a teacher who was previously really pissed off from being called racist, it takes time to and a willingness to accept your imperfections to realize you are contributing to the problems instead of the solutions. Proud to be working hard to come out on the other side. Parents on here who are upset, I get that nobody likes the stigma, but you also have some reflecting to do.

No thanks. The accusations of being racist here are unfounded. Our IB HS is Eastern. It’s not racist to look for other options. And DCUM as a whole plays a strong role in *encouraging* parents to consider majority minority schools in DC. I actually believe DCUM deserves credit for allowing parents to exchange information that leads to enrollement in IB schools like Van Ness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker is a decent school but only within DCPS would it be considered excellent. In most states, it would be mediocre. But DC unfortunately has settled for low standards. I don’t understand why Banneker kids don’t go to better colleges. You can accuse me of being ratings obsessed but the fact is it does matter where you go to college especially for minority and low income kids. The ivys are over-hyped but it is well known that they can make a huge difference for poor, first gen and minority kids. For upperclass white kids, where they go matters a bit less. I think Banneker is underperforming for the kids they claim to serve.

You’re ratings obsessed but Banneker is rated #99 in the country and Washington Latin is #9500. Latin is ranked #16 for high schools in WASHINGTON DC!!

The ratings don't mean anything. The proof is in the pudding. Where do the top students at a given high school go to college? If the answer isn't Harvard/Yale/Princeton, your schools is nothing special.

Banneker does send kids to those schools. More than Latin. So now what?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry but I just can’t with this thread.

Until someone can give me a solid reason white folks in DC don’t flock to Banneker, I will not just swallow that we all want what is best for our children even if it happens to mean keeping our children segregated in schools that are 5% black.

1.) The most recent narrative that Banneker is just too precious of a school for the black community for white folks to mess up a good thing is bulls$&@. 20 years ago, Walls was 13% white and 73% black. Today it’s 50% white and 25% black. White folk had zero problems gentrifying Walls but won’t touch Banneker with a 10 foot pole.

2.) The other BS excuse that Banneker SAT scores are merely right above average don’t take into account that Banneker is an all black school. So its 1120 SAT scores should be measured against national averages for black students (946). Let’s not even get into income inequality. Did you know the average white student with family below poverty scores 130 points higher than the average black student? Anyone that has even the most basic understanding of statistics knows not to measure the SATs at Banneker to nationwide but they continue to site this as an excuse of not being interested in Banneker.

Banneker is top 100 high schools in the nation and is is tied for first in the nation for Math and Reading Performance Rank (How aggregated scores on state assessments compare to U.S. News' expectations given the proportions of students who are black, Hispanic and from low-income households). Imagine how your brilliant white student can excel there.

3.) Banneker is just too hard of a school - See Basis, TJ

4.) I plan to “look” at Banneker when my 1st grader is old enough - yeah we’ve heard that before.

5.) I don’t want my child to be an only - what did white patents 20 years ago think when they gentrified Walls, Deal, Wilson and are doing now on the Hill and at Shepherd?

6.) My child wants to play X sport - recent Banneker grad played football (and maybe track) at Roosevelt and was a super star gaining admissions to various Ivy League schools

Sure, Banneker is not for everyone. But certainly it’s a good fit for more than the 2 white kids that attend every year.

Supporting arguments: see Creative Minds popularity vs nearby Whittier, Barnard, Truesdell etc.

I would love for my kids to go there. It's a peer group I'd be thrilled to put my kids in. I don't know why this isn't a more popular viewpoint. Maybe people are willing to be an only when they don't have other options, and by the time you make it through middle school and to high school, you have other options.

I will file you under excuse #4. Not sure I buy your second part of having other options for high school being as though there are kids that don’t get into Walls and settle for Wilson (and not because they’re athletes).

Next?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of rice white and so-called liberal thinkers on the defensive on this thread, Jeff in particular. Self-reflection can be tough. You can criticize the methods behind this report all you want, but there is more than a kernel of truth to it to conclusions. Jeff, you are making money off of rich white folks. That’s just the way it is.

I commend to all of you the recent New York Times bestseller “white fragility: why it’s so hard for white people to talk about racism.” Many of you, in particular the moderator of this website, could learn from it.

+1
As a teacher who was previously really pissed off from being called racist, it takes time to and a willingness to accept your imperfections to realize you are contributing to the problems instead of the solutions. Proud to be working hard to come out on the other side. Parents on here who are upset, I get that nobody likes the stigma, but you also have some reflecting to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker is a decent school but only within DCPS would it be considered excellent. In most states, it would be mediocre. But DC unfortunately has settled for low standards. I don’t understand why Banneker kids don’t go to better colleges. You can accuse me of being ratings obsessed but the fact is it does matter where you go to college especially for minority and low income kids. The ivys are over-hyped but it is well known that they can make a huge difference for poor, first gen and minority kids. For upperclass white kids, where they go matters a bit less. I think Banneker is underperforming for the kids they claim to serve.

You’re ratings obsessed but Banneker is rated #99 in the country and Washington Latin is #9500. Latin is ranked #16 for high schools in WASHINGTON DC!!

The ratings don't mean anything. The proof is in the pudding. Where do the top students at a given high school go to college? If the answer isn't Harvard/Yale/Princeton, your schools is nothing special.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned the obvious - because the DCUM community is a "group of largely white, largely affluent posters who primarily live in largely white, largely affluent neighborhoods", it doesn't matter whether individual participants are racist or anti-racist or whatever. It's not a "bunch of segregationists" or a "bunch of Klan members" (jsteele's characterization of how the study portrays DCUM) but is a community segregated from other communities in DC by race, class, and geography.

jsteele knows that DCUM is a forum for rich white people who live in rich white neighborhoods and seems to be 100% fine with that, since he keeps bringing it up and acting like it's no big deal.

(OK one person noticed this: "you know your demo because that is what you sell to advertisers. and the fact that your site isn't inclusive is what they are studying")

The problem isn't the individuals. It's the community. And it's the community jsteele wants. Maybe that's why he's so defensive about and feels personally targeted by a study that exposes his community's failings - it ends up being an accurate study of his failings.

Maybe I should be nicer and protect jsteele's feelings so that it's easier for him to hear.

But I have enough respect for his ability to act like an adult and think about the idea of taking action to make DCUM be a forum that is for the entire city of Washington DC and not only its rich white neighborhoods.

I love when posters are honest and treat me like the adult that I am. So, thank you PP. I appreciate your post. Since you were honest, I will also be honest. The DCUM community is heavily represented by white, affluent, well-educated women. Of course that is not representative of the entire community, but that describes the core. And, you know what? I am very proud of that community. I have always said that I will put the DCUM community up against any other online community. My pride is not due to their race, wealth, gender, or education, though I appreciate all of those things. I am proud because for over 15 years they have consistently and ably responded to complete strangers with whom they may have nothing in common to offer support and assistance. They are funny, entertaining, extremely helpful, and, let's face it, sometimes really big pains in the ass. But, this is a great community and nobody will change my mind about that.

You are right about another thing. Our audience is an extremely marketable demographic. But, do you know what I did to create that audience? Nothing. Do you know what I do to maintain it? Nothing. Let's be honest. I am male. I don't make law partner money and am not in the same socio-economic class as many of our users (though I make more than I deserve). I am rude and frequently piss off our users. There is no good explanation for how I could create such a community which I hope makes it easy to believe the truth, which is that I didn't. I'm just the guy who serves the drinks and washes the glasses and occasionally tosses out a disruptive customer.

I've have made efforts to attract other voices to the forum. But, we don't have an advertising budget and never have had. We do no marketing. This community was created organically, more often in spite of me than because of me. I wish it would grow to include others and I think it has, though not to the extent that I would like.

I know that it is pretty common to think "Jeff just has to do this and that will happen", but that doesn't even work with my kids, let alone an audience of hundreds of thousands. If I really could control segregation in the District, I would be selling corporate sponsorships for weekly school desegregation's. You know, "This week's school desegregation brought to you by AT&T. Enroll your white, upper class kid in this Title 1 school. It's safe, secure, and reliable, just like AT&T's mobile service." But, things don't work that way.

I am happy to work with you to help expand our user base. Just let me know how I can help.

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned the obvious - because the DCUM community is a "group of largely white, largely affluent posters who primarily live in largely white, largely affluent neighborhoods", it doesn't matter whether individual participants are racist or anti-racist or whatever. It's not a "bunch of segregationists" or a "bunch of Klan members" (jsteele's characterization of how the study portrays DCUM) but is a community segregated from other communities in DC by race, class, and geography.

jsteele knows that DCUM is a forum for rich white people who live in rich white neighborhoods and seems to be 100% fine with that, since he keeps bringing it up and acting like it's no big deal.

(OK one person noticed this: "you know your demo because that is what you sell to advertisers. and the fact that your site isn't inclusive is what they are studying")

The problem isn't the individuals. It's the community. And it's the community jsteele wants. Maybe that's why he's so defensive about and feels personally targeted by a study that exposes his community's failings - it ends up being an accurate study of his failings.

Maybe I should be nicer and protect jsteele's feelings so that it's easier for him to hear.

But I have enough respect for his ability to act like an adult and think about the idea of taking action to make DCUM be a forum that is for the entire city of Washington DC and not only its rich white neighborhoods.