Anonymous wrote:You can whine, cry and debate Medicare-for-all until the cow’s come home but it’s still going to happen. The concept of insurance for medical expenses was created at a time when the coverage was for catastrophic events. This was decades before wellness care. You buy homeowners insurance just in case your house burns down which will most likely never occur. But everyone will see a doctor at some point in their lives so the concept of insurance no longer applies.

I agree with you on this. Insurance is a financial tool.

These days, everyone in the business is greedy / insurance and money is way too interconnected with the need for (a variety) of a care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m fine with it. My company does it automatically now when you hit 65 and offers a raise and supplemental policy. Everyone is happy with it.

Everyone is THRILLED with it -- including your company.

I can't wait for M4A.

Yeah, they get to not have to pay for healthcare benefits, while nothing anywhere requires them to give a raise that would be anything close to what the health benefits were worth! Companies would be happy! They get to save an extra 20k per employee.

What makes anyone think their company is going to give them a raise if m4a comes into existence? Because all companies are notoriously generous to their employees, and don’t cut costs wherever they can?...

Wait -- so you are arguing against free healthcare because you would rather have your company pay insurers $20K a year for crappy health care?

Not necessarily, I just think it needs to be pointed out that it’s naive to think if suddenly companies don’t have to pay out for health benefits, that they’re just going to give you that money in your paycheck instead.

And nothing is ever free, especially for the middle class.

Of course companies won't raise salaries just because of some potential health reform, what a dumb assumption.

Is someone promising they will?

I think people are assuming they will, since suddenly companies wont have to pay for health benefits. I’ve read a few articles lately that have been saying medical costs are the reason take home pay has been stagnant for so many.

Anonymous wrote:

If I get a raise equal to the value of the previously provided benefits and can shop on the private market for supplementary coverage as needed, no issues. I would be totally fine with that.

You can whine, cry and debate Medicare-for-all until the cow’s come home but it’s still going to happen. The concept of insurance for medical expenses was created at a time when the coverage was for catastrophic events. This was decades before wellness care. You buy homeowners insurance just in case your house burns down which will most likely never occur. But everyone will see a doctor at some point in their lives so the concept of insurance no longer applies.

An interesting take:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2012/05/12/how-employer-sponsored-insurance-drives-up-health-costs/#19efbfc1ea2e

This article argues for equalizing the tax treatment for employer provided and individually purchased health insurance. It also fingers dominant hospital systems as culprits. Interesting quote:

Most people are happy with their current insurance arrangements, precisely because they aren’t aware of how costly they really are.

See also this article on countries with greatest economic freedom and universal health care by the same author:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2015/01/27/conservative-think-tank-10-countries-with-universal-health-care-are-economically-freer-than-the-u-s/#27da371d137e

Note on the graph how little public money Singapore and Switzerland pay for health care compared to the U.S., and yet both have universal health insurance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m fine with it. My company does it automatically now when you hit 65 and offers a raise and supplemental policy. Everyone is happy with it.

Everyone is THRILLED with it -- including your company.

I can't wait for M4A.

Yeah, they get to not have to pay for healthcare benefits, while nothing anywhere requires them to give a raise that would be anything close to what the health benefits were worth! Companies would be happy! They get to save an extra 20k per employee.

What makes anyone think their company is going to give them a raise if m4a comes into existence? Because all companies are notoriously generous to their employees, and don’t cut costs wherever they can?...

Wait -- so you are arguing against free healthcare because you would rather have your company pay insurers $20K a year for crappy health care?

Not necessarily, I just think it needs to be pointed out that it’s naive to think if suddenly companies don’t have to pay out for health benefits, that they’re just going to give you that money in your paycheck instead.

And nothing is ever free, especially for the middle class.

Of course companies won't raise salaries just because of some potential health reform, what a dumb assumption.

Is someone promising they will?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m fine with it. My company does it automatically now when you hit 65 and offers a raise and supplemental policy. Everyone is happy with it.

Everyone is THRILLED with it -- including your company.

I can't wait for M4A.

Yeah, they get to not have to pay for healthcare benefits, while nothing anywhere requires them to give a raise that would be anything close to what the health benefits were worth! Companies would be happy! They get to save an extra 20k per employee.

What makes anyone think their company is going to give them a raise if m4a comes into existence? Because all companies are notoriously generous to their employees, and don’t cut costs wherever they can?...

Wait -- so you are arguing against free healthcare because you would rather have your company pay insurers $20K a year for crappy health care?

Not necessarily, I just think it needs to be pointed out that it’s naive to think if suddenly companies don’t have to pay out for health benefits, that they’re just going to give you that money in your paycheck instead.

And nothing is ever free, especially for the middle class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m fine with it. My company does it automatically now when you hit 65 and offers a raise and supplemental policy. Everyone is happy with it.

Everyone is THRILLED with it -- including your company.

I can't wait for M4A.

Yeah, they get to not have to pay for healthcare benefits, while nothing anywhere requires them to give a raise that would be anything close to what the health benefits were worth! Companies would be happy! They get to save an extra 20k per employee.

What makes anyone think their company is going to give them a raise if m4a comes into existence? Because all companies are notoriously generous to their employees, and don’t cut costs wherever they can?...

Wait -- so you are arguing against free healthcare because you would rather have your company pay insurers $20K a year for crappy health care?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point, I might cut off my right arm just to get that crazy person out of the WH

The phrase "out of the frying pan into the fire" exists for a reason.

There literally is no "fire" worse than the Trump frying pan.

Of course there is.

A new war.

Another 2008-2010 economic implosion.

Another spike in murder and riots like the blm era.

Dozens of millions LOSING healthcare.

And on and on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m fine with it. My company does it automatically now when you hit 65 and offers a raise and supplemental policy. Everyone is happy with it.

Everyone is THRILLED with it -- including your company.

I can't wait for M4A.

Yeah, they get to not have to pay for healthcare benefits, while nothing anywhere requires them to give a raise that would be anything close to what the health benefits were worth! Companies would be happy! They get to save an extra 20k per employee.

What makes anyone think their company is going to give them a raise if m4a comes into existence? Because all companies are notoriously generous to their employees, and don’t cut costs wherever they can?...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point, I might cut off my right arm just to get that crazy person out of the WH

The phrase "out of the frying pan into the fire" exists for a reason.

There literally is no "fire" worse than the Trump frying pan.

Except an actual fire.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point, I might cut off my right arm just to get that crazy person out of the WH

The phrase "out of the frying pan into the fire" exists for a reason.

There literally is no "fire" worse than the Trump frying pan.

Anonymous wrote:At this point, I might cut off my right arm just to get that crazy person out of the WH

The phrase "out of the frying pan into the fire" exists for a reason.

Anonymous wrote:I’m fine with it. My company does it automatically now when you hit 65 and offers a raise and supplemental policy. Everyone is happy with it.

Everyone is THRILLED with it -- including your company.

I can't wait for M4A.

At this point, I might cut off my right arm just to get that crazy person out of the WH

Not happy. But I might still vote for the candidate based on where this “campaign promise” ranked on their list of priorities. Only a few items on that list ever materialize.