Anonymous wrote:Sherwood, Damascus, Clarksburg, Magruder, and Quince Orchard don't have gangs. All upcounty. Sherwood the best, then QO, then Damasus, then clarksburg, then Magruder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^law-abiding undocumented immigrants, to be clear. But I thought the article emphasized that MS-13 is very specific in who they target, i.e., undocumented children.

I'm the PP and I wasn't including the original immigration violation in my definition of "law abiding." I meant undocumented and otherwise law-abiding residents. That's the paradox, right? You need undocumented and otherwise law-abiding residents to feel comfortable calling the police. You can't have that if they fear immigration enforcement as victims of crimes. So that argues for the current MCPD approach of not enforcing immigration violations if someone comes into contact with the criminal justice system as a victim.

HOWEVER, I'm flummoxed by how often it seems that known criminals are out on ICE bond. It seems like the whole system is broken. Known criminals are loose while law-abiding residents are being rounded up and deported.

You had used the word citizens in the post, hence my reply--because you're right, that is the paradox: the people targeted by MS-13 are afraid to come to law enforcement for fear of being deported. I'm glad MCPS has their current policy.

Keeping known criminals out on ICE bond does seem problematic, though. Maybe it's a part of a larger strategy to bring down large numbers of people, and they need cooperation? That seems incredibly risky, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^law-abiding undocumented immigrants, to be clear. But I thought the article emphasized that MS-13 is very specific in who they target, i.e., undocumented children.

I'm the PP and I wasn't including the original immigration violation in my definition of "law abiding." I meant undocumented and otherwise law-abiding residents. That's the paradox, right? You need undocumented and otherwise law-abiding residents to feel comfortable calling the police. You can't have that if they fear immigration enforcement as victims of crimes. So that argues for the current MCPD approach of not enforcing immigration violations if someone comes into contact with the criminal justice system as a victim.

HOWEVER, I'm flummoxed by how often it seems that known criminals are out on ICE bond. It seems like the whole system is broken. Known criminals are loose while law-abiding residents are being rounded up and deported.

Anonymous wrote:^^law-abiding undocumented immigrants, to be clear. But I thought the article emphasized that MS-13 is very specific in who they target, i.e., undocumented children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. Just read this new article on Post Website:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/people-here-live-in-fear-ms-13-menaces-a-community-seven-miles-from-the-white-house/2017/12/20/6cebf318-d956-11e7-b859-fb0995360725_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_ms13control-940am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a3621e9eb460

somehow I dont think the gangs care too much about county lines. This is a regional problem affecting schools and something needs to be done

I wish we could have a nuanced discussion about all of this, because I think there is a lot of consensus among regular folks. The people hurt worst by gang violence are law abiding citizens, as detailed in that article. But aggressive immigration enforcement makes those folks very very reluctant to engage with police. So they suffer in silence, and the gangs grow. That is a strong argument in favor of MCPD policies around not checking the immigration status of victims, which puts them afoul of federal policy.

At the same time, I'm always alarmed to find out how many of the criminals are known to ICE and are on some sort of vaguely supervised release despite ICE knowing they are undocumented. I don't understand the process by which someone is known to be undocumented and known to be a gang member but is not in custody.

I want to understand this, but discussion descend into accusations of "sanctuary state!" so quickly that no one actually understands what sanctuary means, or how it is or is not obstructing the ability to get at real criminals.

Anonymous wrote:OMG. Just read this new article on Post Website:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/people-here-live-in-fear-ms-13-menaces-a-community-seven-miles-from-the-white-house/2017/12/20/6cebf318-d956-11e7-b859-fb0995360725_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_ms13control-940am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a3621e9eb460

somehow I dont think the gangs care too much about county lines. This is a regional problem affecting schools and something needs to be done

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here and I’m leaving MCPS over this issue. They need to get it under control.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poverty is not "moving in" to Silver Spring. My house was worth $200k 15 years ago and is now worth $600k. My neighbors used to be electricians and roofers and now they're lawyers and scientists.

Yeah, Silver Spring is a pretty big area. There are a lot of neighborhoods doing very well with rising property values. Downtown Silver Spring has made a large chunk unreachable for me. The purple line will contribute to that.

Sure there is poverty. In an area this large that is a given. But it sure doesn't characterize the community, and it's sure not taking over.

Anonymous wrote:Funny thing about trolling is that it is so easy to be affective. Undercut people’s insecurities and watch the pithy responses roll in. Now granted the responses will say that they don’t care but me thinks they protest too much. The people who really don’t care don’t bother.

I guess the core of the entire thread is a debate on if the DCC and northern parts of MoCo are trending up or down. If they are quality places currently is of course completely subjective based on people’s standards but the data is clear that poverty and Immigration are exploding in certain areas while wealth is concentrating in increasingly select areas. Now if these are harbingers for even worse declines in QOL? Most historical trends would point to yes similar to the African American exodus out of the south that ravaged many northern neighborhoods when their poverty mixed with retaliatory social policy by their neighbors and displaced whites. While there are some major differences in trends since this boom coincides with a rebaselining of real estate prices and a shift back to urban from suburban, the same social backlash seems consistent if one looks at the vitriol and animosity directed towards immigrants currently.

If I had to guess as poverty moves in and is simultaneously displaced from DC proper, new concentrationed areas of poverty will emerge. The trends may be masked by all real estate prices rising but I would watch the trends very closely. There are historical points where influxes of massive amounts of new poor people cause too many problems historically tied to poverty that people move out. It will happen gradually

Anonymous wrote:Poverty is not "moving in" to Silver Spring. My house was worth $200k 15 years ago and is now worth $600k. My neighbors used to be electricians and roofers and now they're lawyers and scientists.