Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll spell it out: the 'punkass' ones will stay behind. That's the assumption.

Okay back to Basis: if the same kids who are 'punkass' also can't pass the comps at the end of the year, then the school will be all the better next year. Both Latin and Basis operate on a kind of self-selection model, but Basis adds the screening factor of the comps. The kids who really don't want to be at Basis AND don't pass the comps won't be promoted. The kids who don't want to be at Latin, presumably there's social promotion? Anyone know?

Unfortunately, there is social promotion at Latin.

Another difference between Latin and BASIS is that BASIS replaces very few of the kids who leave. If a kid decides at the end of 8th that he does not want to continue with BASIS for high school, he is not replaced by another kid who has been attending a mediocre or failing middle for three or four years. Only kids who demonstrate mastery of the material covered in the BASIS curriculum from 5th to 8th can join in 9th. As a result, the classes shrink, but the curriculum is not watered down.

Yes, every parent wants to believe this. The economic reality is that it is only true when you have observed it actually happening. That is not the case with Basis. they can still tell us whatever they want.

Anonymous wrote: Anyhow, sorry that you feel the need to bash Latin. I really feel it only strengthens DC that with Basis we might have three top tier middle school options instead of two.

Most Latin parents on DCUM certainly seem to love the school. And yet, nearly one-third of AA middle school kids there, and almost half the AA 10th graders, aren't scoring proficient on the DC-CAS for either reading or math. If drawing PPs attention to the fact makes me a Latin basher, OK, I'm a Latin basher.

What's going on, when only a tiny fraction of the AA students at Banneker and Walls aren't scoring proficient? The Basis boosters are certain that their school's published scores will put Latin's to shame this time next year? Is it possible, just possible, that self-selection as the admissions modus operandi at these MS and HS charters doesn't work very well?

http://osse.dc.gov/release/mayor-vincent-c-gray-announces-2012-dc-cas-results

In Sum:

2012 Math Proficiency Rate:
Latin MS 67.3%
Latin HS 58.5&
Banneker 96.5%
Walls 96.4%

2012 Reading Proficiency Rate:
Latin MS 67.3%
Latin HS 57.1%
Banneker 87%
Walls 98.2%

Anonymous wrote:Why does everyone assume that all low SES children have bad attitudes and don't have manners? Stop stereotyping

Why? Because they are far more likely to be in a bad environment. More single parents, more unemployed, neighborhoods filled with drugs, violence, gangs and high crime, and so on. Lots of bad behavior. Children model after what they are surrounded with.

What "punkass" poster was inarticulately getting at is that privates will only "scoop up" students if there is something substantial in it for them. Sure, they'd likely be very interested in having the extraordinary students, for example a 4th grade musical prodigy with a huge repertoire of classical works and who composes her own pieces or a 5th grader who can do calculus - children who are going places, whom those privates would be able to tout as fantastic alumni. They will seek them out and will seek to look after their well being, and will look to retain them.

But for anyone short of that, the best one could hope for is that they are just getting a handful of students to check a box and tout some cheapo feel-good measure of diversity and inclusion - but in that latter case, they are probably not as interested in retention or the student's actual well-being, as they could just get more where they came from when the "diversity" students wash out - that second category is of far less "substantial" benefit to them.

Yes, Deal. Latin and Deal are probably the best proven middle schools. Basis could be a third. Hardy and Stuart-Hobson are decent, but not stellar (though I know that some kids who really thrive at both).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll spell it out: the 'punkass' ones will stay behind. That's the assumption.

Okay back to Basis: if the same kids who are 'punkass' also can't pass the comps at the end of the year, then the school will be all the better next year. Both Latin and Basis operate on a kind of self-selection model, but Basis adds the screening factor of the comps. The kids who really don't want to be at Basis AND don't pass the comps won't be promoted. The kids who don't want to be at Latin, presumably there's social promotion? Anyone know?

Unfortunately, there is social promotion at Latin.

Another difference between Latin and BASIS is that BASIS replaces very few of the kids who leave. If a kid decides at the end of 8th that he does not want to continue with BASIS for high school, he is not replaced by another kid who has been attending a mediocre or failing middle for three or four years. Only kids who demonstrate mastery of the material covered in the BASIS curriculum from 5th to 8th can join in 9th. As a result, the classes shrink, but the curriculum is not watered down.

...

Anyhow, sorry that you feel the need to bash Latin. I really feel it only strengthens DC that with Basis we might have three top tier middle school options instead of two.

You're absolutely right, PP. I'm sorry that my post sounded like I was bashing Latin. I think Latin is a great school.

I happen to think that MY DC will do better at BASIS than Latin, but that has more to do with my DC. Unfortunately, I can't enroll DC in both schools for 8 years to see which results in the better outcome...

I also happen to think that Latin is a better fit than BASIS for a lot of kids in DC. I think we are fortunate indeed to have both Latin and BASIS as MS options here in DC. (By the way, PP, you allude to a third option. Which did you have in mind? Deal?)

I don't hear Latin-bashing, tho there was some a few pages ago. Both schools are a gift to DC and son had 2 good years at Latin, hard to leave but no choice; it was. There are differences and I suspect the comparison sheds light and helps steer choices. I'm glad we made the switch but I also worry. Both schools have awesome teachers, particularly in science and math, but Latin also had really imaginative assignments, like "wanted" poster for an infectious disease, or a geography word drawn and decorated to look like what it means, like a power-point presentation on Latin words still in use, like an assignment to convey a chapter of a book using any media they choose. Wonderful creative stuff! On the other hand, my son tells me all about polysaccharides and such, and has a much easier time keeping track of (and therefore doing) his homework. There are issues with both schools: Basis needs more order in the hallways and classrooms, Latin wide hallways better allow supervision. But - Latin's after-school program is a waste whereas at Basis the homework gets done. On and on, pluses and minuses. And comparison with other schools would be useful as well, like Deal (overcrowded? orderly? emphasis on mastery or creativity?).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll spell it out: the 'punkass' ones will stay behind. That's the assumption.

Okay back to Basis: if the same kids who are 'punkass' also can't pass the comps at the end of the year, then the school will be all the better next year. Both Latin and Basis operate on a kind of self-selection model, but Basis adds the screening factor of the comps. The kids who really don't want to be at Basis AND don't pass the comps won't be promoted. The kids who don't want to be at Latin, presumably there's social promotion? Anyone know?

Unfortunately, there is social promotion at Latin.

Another difference between Latin and BASIS is that BASIS replaces very few of the kids who leave. If a kid decides at the end of 8th that he does not want to continue with BASIS for high school, he is not replaced by another kid who has been attending a mediocre or failing middle for three or four years. Only kids who demonstrate mastery of the material covered in the BASIS curriculum from 5th to 8th can join in 9th. As a result, the classes shrink, but the curriculum is not watered down.

Latin does not add students after 9th grade. So the difference is one year.

At Latin there are elective periods where kids who need extra help can get it. Teachers are great about working after class with students as well. Latin also offers summer school (we have never used it so can't really comment). I thought it was impressive that every senior of the first class got accepted into college. Few of those kids were high SES kids. I don't feel that the curriculum is "watered down" for those kids who can meet the extra challenges and am impressed that my child is reading material that I read two years later in school. My child is also very comfortable talking to adults and asking probing questions. I attribute that to the socratic seminars that are an integral part of Latin's curriculum.

We are an 8th grade family that is planning to stay for HS at Latin. My son has continued to be challenged by the material and I really can't imagine him working at a more advanced level than he already is. The reason we chose Latin is the challenging curriculum and that Latin did not "teach to the test." Had BASIS been around when my child was in 5th, I certainly would have considered it. It seems to have a lot to offer.

Anyhow, sorry that you feel the need to bash Latin. I really feel it only strengthens DC that with Basis we might have three top tier middle school options instead of two.

The concern I am trying to express is about the bigger picture, not just any one class. I believe that the cumulative academic load placed on students from day 1 at our campus, especially combined with the day to day speed of coverage, is simply not optimal for all but most gifted and dedicated students. It throws kids and parents out of balance, and causes stress, loss of sleep, loss of play time and out of school activities. Can it be managed? Absolutely. But in my opinion at a needless and sad cost. If a kid is thriving doing calculus in 9th grade then great. But colleges don't want or expect that, and nor is it necessarily in the best long term interests of most children emotionally and intellectually to push as far as possible as fast as possible in all subjects at the same time. So it is a matter of opportunity costs and emotional costs of the extremely rigorous content and test based curriculum that upsets me. I am all for elevated expectations, and AP tests are groovy... but not so damn many and not when taking the tests are seen as an ultimate academic end in and of themselves!!!

To any Tucson or other Basis School parents with experience in AZ with the Basis Model, looking down the road a year or two, how does your child manage? The day is long and crammed with note taking, there is 2 hours of studying a night, wake up the next day and repeat. Sounds like work, not school. Did you find that the academic load started off a little easier in 5th grade and then became harder in the following grades? Any other things to watch out for with the Basis Model? The electives sound good on paper but look like just more note taking, kind of sending a message, we are only about academics, leave if you want something else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ My kids are really little, so we'll see where Basis is once it has an entire high school. But I know that if the school population is more than around one-quarter low SES AA kids, my spouse won't be interested, no matter what the story is academically. This is because, growing up as a low SES Asian kid in largely low SES AA schools, he was called chink almost every school day, with the standard corner-of-eyes pulling gesture, and worse. After his parents complained, the taunting intensified. I can try to reason with him, tell him the school system has implemented the sort of conflict intervention program you mention, but he won't believe that his own children won't be similarly tortured.

As for lowering standards, how else can middle schools reliant on city funding attract much AA talent in one of the country's lowest-performing school systems? Even Detroit and New Orleans do GT screening and support programs. The most academic low SES kids still tend to get scooped up by privates in this city. You watch, Basis will prep them in MS and lose them for HS to scholarships.

I'm glad that social issues are finally being raised on this thread. Thanks, pps.

I agree. This happens now. I talk to parents who have high school age kids at our very sought after charter. Many of the older sibs of lower SES minority kids go to private schools including some very prestigious New England boarding schools on scholarship.

Oh, sure. Sidwell, Potomac, Holton, Maret and the rest of the snooty, hoity-toity privates are just chomping at the bit to get your punkass bad-attitude kid who somehow amazingly managed to pull off a B+ in math in their crappy DCPS school. Dream on.

Our snowflake will be going off to one of those boarding schools for high school just like his dad, grandpa, greatgrand... will love it if someone from his current charter goes too. Will be checking out Basis when it's time for middle school for its academic rigor and it's walking distance to our house a BIG plus!

Anonymous wrote:I'll spell it out: the 'punkass' ones will stay behind. That's the assumption.

Okay back to Basis: if the same kids who are 'punkass' also can't pass the comps at the end of the year, then the school will be all the better next year. Both Latin and Basis operate on a kind of self-selection model, but Basis adds the screening factor of the comps. The kids who really don't want to be at Basis AND don't pass the comps won't be promoted. The kids who don't want to be at Latin, presumably there's social promotion? Anyone know?

Unfortunately, there is social promotion at Latin.

Another difference between Latin and BASIS is that BASIS replaces very few of the kids who leave. If a kid decides at the end of 8th that he does not want to continue with BASIS for high school, he is not replaced by another kid who has been attending a mediocre or failing middle for three or four years. Only kids who demonstrate mastery of the material covered in the BASIS curriculum from 5th to 8th can join in 9th. As a result, the classes shrink, but the curriculum is not watered down.

I'll spell it out: the 'punkass' ones will stay behind. That's the assumption.

Okay back to Basis: if the same kids who are 'punkass' also can't pass the comps at the end of the year, then the school will be all the better next year. Both Latin and Basis operate on a kind of self-selection model, but Basis adds the screening factor of the comps. The kids who really don't want to be at Basis AND don't pass the comps won't be promoted. The kids who don't want to be at Latin, presumably there's social promotion? Anyone know?

Why does everyone assume that all low SES children have bad attitudes and don't have manners? Stop stereotyping

pp you missed the point!