Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

You do realize that men will say the same thing, except with regard to breadwinning.

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, you lost me at I have never worried that having children has negatively affected how I look in my holiday attire.

Do people really waste their time worrying about how they look in holiday attire? I'm a woman, by the way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

I want men to take equal responsibility to create a happy home and not freeload on women and then if called on it, claim that the only thing kids need is food and water.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One person just needs to take the lead and delegate. When the email comes out about donating to the teachers you can't have both people jump at it, you will duplicate efforts. If you want your husbands to manage everything and bark out orders about what tasks are assigned to you, I'm guessing you would be complaining about that too.

People have actually said the contrary many times. Our school sends emails to both of us. Whoever happens to get to the email first and can do something about it will let the other one know "hey, I signed the form for the field trip next week." Where is the duplication of efforts there? Delegating actually requires both of us to read the email - the first one to find out what is needed and to delegate the task and then the second to also find out what is needed. Sometimes one of us is busier than the other so whoever has the free time at that moment handles the task. I don't know why you're making that out to be so difficult.

That sounds like an incredibly inefficient system. We don’t follow that messy system at work. Do you? Whoever gets to it first, really?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One person just needs to take the lead and delegate. When the email comes out about donating to the teachers you can't have both people jump at it, you will duplicate efforts. If you want your husbands to manage everything and bark out orders about what tasks are assigned to you, I'm guessing you would be complaining about that too.

People have actually said the contrary many times. Our school sends emails to both of us. Whoever happens to get to the email first and can do something about it will let the other one know "hey, I signed the form for the field trip next week." Where is the duplication of efforts there? Delegating actually requires both of us to read the email - the first one to find out what is needed and to delegate the task and then the second to also find out what is needed. Sometimes one of us is busier than the other so whoever has the free time at that moment handles the task. I don't know why you're making that out to be so difficult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your kids who take the SAT should be signing themselves up. You guys make your own problems.

DP. No, parents have responsibility here. A husband should be capable of knowing this and assigning himself the task. If the husband is too incompetent or cannot be asked, its on the other parent and there is a case for resentment here.

The Venmo for the teacher gifts is optional. Tell the teacher your husband is too incompetent to parent and for the sake of your mental load, you needed to take responsibility for the SAT. They'll understand.

At least in my kids' classrooms, classroom arrangements, signup genius links, venmo requests, etc. are all done through a group chat via the school's app. All classroom parents are added. Emails are also sent to all classroom parents. Not ONE husband responds to chats, emails, signup genius. It's 100% moms. On the class party day there's decent dad turnout, so I know they're aware. And I know the majority of moms are working moms. It's been like this since daycare!

I also handle most kid admin in my house. My husband is no slouch otherwise, but there are times when I'm underwater and need help and he is completely blind to this kind of work no matter how many app notifications/emails/paperwork are sent. I have to directly ask. Yes, some of it's fluff, no one will die if we forget cookies for the teacher cookie exchange, but we DO need to get the required class shirt, recorder, contribute to group activities, pay for field trips, sign online permission slips, check grades and homework, update parental settings on devices, and on and on. I truly believe the idea that planning around children's lives is "women's work" is so pervasive, the vast majority of men will not change, even if it's subconscious and they present a flexible, equitable mindset.

Do not get me started on Christmas.

Same for us regarding all dads being on these chats and it being totally moms dealing with it. There are two dads (out of 40-some families across two classes) who participate.

And ALL the moms work, and many have jobs every bit as challenging as their husband's. Some are fily breadwinners.

Also, the two dads that participate -- their wives also participate. But for a lot of other families, the dad has zero involvement.

This is a UMC public school in DC. Also, some of the class and PTA stuff is dumb make work (I don't do that) but a lot of this is just necessary stuff -- making sure kids have supplies, knowing deadlines, ensuring there are sufficient chaperones for school trips, disseminating info about aftercare, administrative deadlines, etc.

That's how I know that the women in this thread saying "it's unequal" are not BSing. It's not! And it's not because all the women are bad communicators or just live feeling resentful or whatever. It's because it's just not equal. Most moms work, but few dads do as much parenting/household admin as moms. And that's just the truth. It's no wonder women sometimes complain. It is a testament to our fortitude that we don't complain more.

This is because MEN DON’T CARE about this pointless make-work pissing contest that WOMEN initiate and WOMEN expect other WOMEN to engage in! Even if you ask your husband if he thinks it’s important and he says “yes” he probably doesn’t. You can test this by not doing it - if he doesn’t do it himself, it’s because he simply DOES NOT GIVE A CRAP.

Anonymous wrote:One person just needs to take the lead and delegate. When the email comes out about donating to the teachers you can't have both people jump at it, you will duplicate efforts. If you want your husbands to manage everything and bark out orders about what tasks are assigned to you, I'm guessing you would be complaining about that too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your kids who take the SAT should be signing themselves up. You guys make your own problems.

DP. No, parents have responsibility here. A husband should be capable of knowing this and assigning himself the task. If the husband is too incompetent or cannot be asked, its on the other parent and there is a case for resentment here.

The Venmo for the teacher gifts is optional. Tell the teacher your husband is too incompetent to parent and for the sake of your mental load, you needed to take responsibility for the SAT. They'll understand.

At least in my kids' classrooms, classroom arrangements, signup genius links, venmo requests, etc. are all done through a group chat via the school's app. All classroom parents are added. Emails are also sent to all classroom parents. Not ONE husband responds to chats, emails, signup genius. It's 100% moms. On the class party day there's decent dad turnout, so I know they're aware. And I know the majority of moms are working moms. It's been like this since daycare!

I also handle most kid admin in my house. My husband is no slouch otherwise, but there are times when I'm underwater and need help and he is completely blind to this kind of work no matter how many app notifications/emails/paperwork are sent. I have to directly ask. Yes, some of it's fluff, no one will die if we forget cookies for the teacher cookie exchange, but we DO need to get the required class shirt, recorder, contribute to group activities, pay for field trips, sign online permission slips, check grades and homework, update parental settings on devices, and on and on. I truly believe the idea that planning around children's lives is "women's work" is so pervasive, the vast majority of men will not change, even if it's subconscious and they present a flexible, equitable mindset.

Do not get me started on Christmas.

Same for us regarding all dads being on these chats and it being totally moms dealing with it. There are two dads (out of 40-some families across two classes) who participate.

And ALL the moms work, and many have jobs every bit as challenging as their husband's. Some are fily breadwinners.

Also, the two dads that participate -- their wives also participate. But for a lot of other families, the dad has zero involvement.

This is a UMC public school in DC. Also, some of the class and PTA stuff is dumb make work (I don't do that) but a lot of this is just necessary stuff -- making sure kids have supplies, knowing deadlines, ensuring there are sufficient chaperones for school trips, disseminating info about aftercare, administrative deadlines, etc.

That's how I know that the women in this thread saying "it's unequal" are not BSing. It's not! And it's not because all the women are bad communicators or just live feeling resentful or whatever. It's because it's just not equal. Most moms work, but few dads do as much parenting/household admin as moms. And that's just the truth. It's no wonder women sometimes complain. It is a testament to our fortitude that we don't complain more.

This.

I definitely do more admin work than my husband BUT he does more of other things. For example, my car registration is something he does, as he does everything related to all our cars. I'm not equating the two, I'm just saying that we have divided some things 50/50 (i.e. we are both responsible for certain items related to our children and house) and for other things we have divided them 100/0 where one of us is wholly responsible for that area. For example, he does all the electronics for everyone in the family, which includes all issues with phones, iPads, computers, laptops, TVs, WiFi, etc. If a child asks me for assistance because something isn't working on their phone, I send them to their dad. I do all the logistics related to our kids' shared sport because it's also my sport. My husband attends practices and competitions, but I buy all the items the kids need and stay on top of that. I could go on and on, but the two of us both work full time and have divided things up in a way that works for us. I do more admin but not all of it and he does more of other things. All that to say, I don't think saying you do more admin work is necessarily a problem. Now, if you do all of it despite asking your husband for help with it, or you do it in addition to everything else, then of course that's a problem.

Same. I actually call this 50/50 because I’m a bulker not a splitter - on a whole it’s 50/50. Reality is he does all the home and garden maintenance and organization. I do all the kid shopping. We both do cooking, laundry. I organize the household help; he organizes the kids extracurriculars and school payments. We both work and are equals with our own specialties.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s unconscious, but this is about establishing power in the relationship. No modern man would say to his wife “I’m the leader of this household,” but they communicate in this more subtle, non-verbal way.
By framing the relationship in a way where she just does things, but he has to be asked to do normal things like clean the house, watch the kids, prepare food, or buy Christmas presents, he (likely unconsciously) asserts that he is the more powerful person in the relationship without actually having to say it.

That’s what you are resentful about, OP. It isn’t the “mental load.” It’s that he is treating you as “lesser than” he is.

OP here. He definitely treats me as though I’m less than him in many ways.

And then you buy into it and complain and resent. You have to flip that switch, if only in your own head. You win. You're the better parent. Stop the whole nonsense internally. Then, if/when he treats you like you're less than, just look at him like the lost little puppy he must be and pat him on the cute little stupid head.

Do only what works for you, including teaching your children to go along with it and be grateful for whatever holiday magic you manage. Lower everyone's expectations. If your spouse balks, he's welcome to pick up the slack. If he gives you grief, invite him to fix whatever he's upset about, like a damned adult.

You have to opt out of this whole game if you don't want to play this game. Otherwise, not only are you playing, you're probably gonna lose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.

So you want to create a happy home? Like this is a choice you make because you want it, not a burden thrust on you?

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else? Not sure if this is a vent or what.

I’m expected or at least need to earn a living and contribute to maintain our lifestyle

But all the planning is on me. He hasn’t volunteered to do anything for Christmas. He’s never going to volunteer. I can assign him something and he will do it but he automatically assumes I will handle it all. I’m supposed to be fortunate he will contribute if asked. We both have jobs that are just as demanding.

I’m frustrated and there is not a solution. Regret getting married and signing up for this. I’ve talked to him and nothing will change. I vacillate between thinking he’s incompetent and he is taking advantage of me.

When can I be free of this? Never?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And, to be clear, she can do the same. Nobody's forcing her to make a "magical" holiday experience. If you don't enjoy it, stop.

I mean, these things are important, to a degree.

But if I'm operating under extreme resentment and loathing because my spouse cannot or will not participate in the child's lives, I'm editing my mental load and protecting my mental health.

Millions of people live perfectly fine lives without ever celebrating Christmas at all, ever. This shit is entirely optional.

That’s total bullsh*t. Depriving your kid of cultural celebrations isn’t abuse per se but it’s really bad parenting. This is obviously just a cope to claim that traditional women’s work has no value.

So people who don't care about Christmas are abusers? You're mental. Get help.

Women's work has value so they should limit how often that value gets tapped without compensation or reciprocation. If you can't figure out how to do that without "depriving your kid of cultural celebrations" you shouldn't have had kids. The radio plays free Christmas music, every mall has a santa, holiday lights are probably all over your neighborhood and walking is free. You don't have to pay money or time to celebrate the holiday, should you choose.

It's "total bullsh*t" that this thread is this long and some of y'all still can't figure this out for your allegedly-grown selves, let alone the children you love and overprotect so damned much. God help their future spouses!

All of those things you listed take time. And you probably should not have kids if you don’t want to create a happy home for them.