I have not read this whole thread but as a borderline x/m I totally get it. It’s insanely hard and unaffordable. It’s weirder in a way that people do want kids. I truly don’t get people who say it’s not hard unless they have so much money and the easiest kids. Working and trying to prepare kids for success in a world where it’s increasingly impossible to ‘make it’. Trying to make sure they won’t have student loan debt and make sure they’ll have some nest eggs so they can actually afford a house one day. And be a good mom and balance all of it - it’s insane.

I was one and done as is my daughter. My sister is one and done and her millennial daughter is none and done.

With one there is little stress -- financial or otherwise.

just adding, elder millennial here, 1982 baby. had my first at 34. one and done. for all the reasons mentioned here. Costs of childcare. Lack of enough paid FMLA. Lack of any real help/village. Careers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

The particular question I think says “have you ever been told by a healthcare provider that you have a mental health condition” which I feel like could include “you’re a little depressed” or “having some anxiety.” It doesn’t say “diagnosis.” That sounds like anyone who has talked to a therapist or a primary care doctor during Covid honestly.

But also ironically I think a very high percentage of women who’ve had babies would be in that boat particularly if they had postpartum care from an OB because at a minimum you’re discussing the depression screener at the six week PP appointment.

I’m a highly educated white liberal woman under 40 so like, I did a PACE group and for sure I would answer yes because of discussing PPA/D symptoms which almost everyone has but I wouldn’t say I was diagnosed or even had PPA/D enough to need medical care but it’s kind of a spectrum.

Research needs to be peer reviewed. When peer reviewed the findings were that white liberal women (it's not all liberals, it's not liberal men or liberal black women, just liberal white women) were more likely to have access to healthcare not more likely to have mental illnesses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's really about the expectations for parenting. You can't have kids and keep living your pre-kids life without being branded a bad parent. As soon as you have kids, your life becomes kid-centric with playgroups, music classes, sports practices, and on and on. If you aren't interested in this shift, then you don't have kids. In prior generations, people just ignored their kids and went on with their adult lives.

And those kids ended up being far more capable, independent adults. What Parenting has become isn’t good for parents or kids.

This is so true - what parenting has become is crazy for the parents and so bad for the kids. You do NOT have to play with your kids playdate. It IS okay to let them do things without a monitor, or have thoughts or conversations that you don't know about. Our next generations are already basket cases because of bad genes and bad parenting.

+100000. Modern parenting where parents give up their identity to raise kids is not doing the kids any favors.

Yes because the identity of Katelyn in accounting is so much more interesting and meaningful.

That’s just the kind of attitude that’s the problem. Yes, Katelyn’s life matters.

Actually the problem is that caregiving isn’t valued and isn’t seen as a valid identity while crunching numbers for a stupid trade association is. This devaluation of what mothers do, spreads to all the other caring professions like nursing, teaching, speech therapy etc and now we are getting the dystopia we deserve.

+1 I'm with you on why we shouldn't devalue caregiving, but you've got to incentivize it with more than empty bromides.

Wages for housework and caregiving (young or old).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

The particular question I think says “have you ever been told by a healthcare provider that you have a mental health condition” which I feel like could include “you’re a little depressed” or “having some anxiety.” It doesn’t say “diagnosis.” That sounds like anyone who has talked to a therapist or a primary care doctor during Covid honestly.

But also ironically I think a very high percentage of women who’ve had babies would be in that boat particularly if they had postpartum care from an OB because at a minimum you’re discussing the depression screener at the six week PP appointment.

I’m a highly educated white liberal woman under 40 so like, I did a PACE group and for sure I would answer yes because of discussing PPA/D symptoms which almost everyone has but I wouldn’t say I was diagnosed or even had PPA/D enough to need medical care but it’s kind of a spectrum.

Pace is terrible. I’m a highly educated woman and the navel gazing and lack of resilience by the women in the group was on another level. Women who acted traumatized because they had a child and then support group leaders who encouraged the hysterical behavior. I’d never seen anything like it. Originally I thought it was a way to make friends and socialize. No, it is a group support group for women and it encourages the idea that women should change and give up their lives once they have had kids. Go to a PACE group and you’ll easily see what’s wrong with modern day parenting.

That’s if you can even afford it, and have the time to go. I tried to sign up and by the time they got back to me I was heading back to work. They suggested I take time off to attend, like that was even possible. But then I couldn’t afford it anyway.

That happened to me too! I had diagnosed PPD and my doctor recommended PACE as a support group, but the organizer took forever to get back to me, then offered a spot in a group that was a 40 minute commute from my home and where only the 1st session would happen during my leave. And then was rude to me when I turned it down.

I wound up going to a support group through the breastfeeding center even though I wasn't having issues with breastfeeding. I just went to meet other moms with babies because my doc thought it would help. Maybe it did?

I think one issue with becoming a mom is that now that it's truly optional for women, we offer a lot less community support than we used to. It's so isolating now.

You likely dodged a bullet. PACE very much preaches the message that life is now over and you will suffer. For a woman with PPD, you likely would have benefited more by stepping out of the house for an hour to grab a coffee on your own. Not paying $600 to hear Suzy cry about having to watch her own baby.

This is a very bizarre experience with PACE. I'm sure there are some dud leaders, but in my group every single woman but one was headed back to full time work after maternity leave and the one was part time in higher education. The leaders helped normalize things the at the time can feel overwhelming and strongly encouraged utilizing whatever supports you have available / need to NOT suffer.

It is a lot of navel gazing, but early motherhood is a wild change for many / most women and between both the reality and the hormanes, it seems like an appropriate time to navel gaze. I was talking to a woman pregnant with her 4th today (i have 3) and we were discussing how the first seemed so hard and now it almost seems unimaginable that it was so hard (though we both remember it being so hard). She made the excellent point that prior to having her baby it had been decades since she'd ever had to learn something big and brand new and you have to do it at a time it feel it feels tremendously important you get it right, you're exhausted and recovering, your hormomes are going nuts, and your marriage is likely strained. That's a lot!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's really about the expectations for parenting. You can't have kids and keep living your pre-kids life without being branded a bad parent. As soon as you have kids, your life becomes kid-centric with playgroups, music classes, sports practices, and on and on. If you aren't interested in this shift, then you don't have kids. In prior generations, people just ignored their kids and went on with their adult lives.

And those kids ended up being far more capable, independent adults. What Parenting has become isn’t good for parents or kids.

This is so true - what parenting has become is crazy for the parents and so bad for the kids. You do NOT have to play with your kids playdate. It IS okay to let them do things without a monitor, or have thoughts or conversations that you don't know about. Our next generations are already basket cases because of bad genes and bad parenting.

+100000. Modern parenting where parents give up their identity to raise kids is not doing the kids any favors.

Yes because the identity of Katelyn in accounting is so much more interesting and meaningful.

That’s just the kind of attitude that’s the problem. Yes, Katelyn’s life matters.

Actually the problem is that caregiving isn’t valued and isn’t seen as a valid identity while crunching numbers for a stupid trade association is. This devaluation of what mothers do, spreads to all the other caring professions like nursing, teaching, speech therapy etc and now we are getting the dystopia we deserve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

The particular question I think says “have you ever been told by a healthcare provider that you have a mental health condition” which I feel like could include “you’re a little depressed” or “having some anxiety.” It doesn’t say “diagnosis.” That sounds like anyone who has talked to a therapist or a primary care doctor during Covid honestly.

But also ironically I think a very high percentage of women who’ve had babies would be in that boat particularly if they had postpartum care from an OB because at a minimum you’re discussing the depression screener at the six week PP appointment.

I’m a highly educated white liberal woman under 40 so like, I did a PACE group and for sure I would answer yes because of discussing PPA/D symptoms which almost everyone has but I wouldn’t say I was diagnosed or even had PPA/D enough to need medical care but it’s kind of a spectrum.

Pace is terrible. I’m a highly educated woman and the navel gazing and lack of resilience by the women in the group was on another level. Women who acted traumatized because they had a child and then support group leaders who encouraged the hysterical behavior. I’d never seen anything like it. Originally I thought it was a way to make friends and socialize. No, it is a group support group for women and it encourages the idea that women should change and give up their lives once they have had kids. Go to a PACE group and you’ll easily see what’s wrong with modern day parenting.

That’s if you can even afford it, and have the time to go. I tried to sign up and by the time they got back to me I was heading back to work. They suggested I take time off to attend, like that was even possible. But then I couldn’t afford it anyway.

That happened to me too! I had diagnosed PPD and my doctor recommended PACE as a support group, but the organizer took forever to get back to me, then offered a spot in a group that was a 40 minute commute from my home and where only the 1st session would happen during my leave. And then was rude to me when I turned it down.

I wound up going to a support group through the breastfeeding center even though I wasn't having issues with breastfeeding. I just went to meet other moms with babies because my doc thought it would help. Maybe it did?

I think one issue with becoming a mom is that now that it's truly optional for women, we offer a lot less community support than we used to. It's so isolating now.

You likely dodged a bullet. PACE very much preaches the message that life is now over and you will suffer. For a woman with PPD, you likely would have benefited more by stepping out of the house for an hour to grab a coffee on your own. Not paying $600 to hear Suzy cry about having to watch her own baby.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

The particular question I think says “have you ever been told by a healthcare provider that you have a mental health condition” which I feel like could include “you’re a little depressed” or “having some anxiety.” It doesn’t say “diagnosis.” That sounds like anyone who has talked to a therapist or a primary care doctor during Covid honestly.

But also ironically I think a very high percentage of women who’ve had babies would be in that boat particularly if they had postpartum care from an OB because at a minimum you’re discussing the depression screener at the six week PP appointment.

I’m a highly educated white liberal woman under 40 so like, I did a PACE group and for sure I would answer yes because of discussing PPA/D symptoms which almost everyone has but I wouldn’t say I was diagnosed or even had PPA/D enough to need medical care but it’s kind of a spectrum.

Pace is terrible. I’m a highly educated woman and the navel gazing and lack of resilience by the women in the group was on another level. Women who acted traumatized because they had a child and then support group leaders who encouraged the hysterical behavior. I’d never seen anything like it. Originally I thought it was a way to make friends and socialize. No, it is a group support group for women and it encourages the idea that women should change and give up their lives once they have had kids. Go to a PACE group and you’ll easily see what’s wrong with modern day parenting.

That’s if you can even afford it, and have the time to go. I tried to sign up and by the time they got back to me I was heading back to work. They suggested I take time off to attend, like that was even possible. But then I couldn’t afford it anyway.

That happened to me too! I had diagnosed PPD and my doctor recommended PACE as a support group, but the organizer took forever to get back to me, then offered a spot in a group that was a 40 minute commute from my home and where only the 1st session would happen during my leave. And then was rude to me when I turned it down.

I wound up going to a support group through the breastfeeding center even though I wasn't having issues with breastfeeding. I just went to meet other moms with babies because my doc thought it would help. Maybe it did?

I think one issue with becoming a mom is that now that it's truly optional for women, we offer a lot less community support than we used to. It's so isolating now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

The particular question I think says “have you ever been told by a healthcare provider that you have a mental health condition” which I feel like could include “you’re a little depressed” or “having some anxiety.” It doesn’t say “diagnosis.” That sounds like anyone who has talked to a therapist or a primary care doctor during Covid honestly.

But also ironically I think a very high percentage of women who’ve had babies would be in that boat particularly if they had postpartum care from an OB because at a minimum you’re discussing the depression screener at the six week PP appointment.

I’m a highly educated white liberal woman under 40 so like, I did a PACE group and for sure I would answer yes because of discussing PPA/D symptoms which almost everyone has but I wouldn’t say I was diagnosed or even had PPA/D enough to need medical care but it’s kind of a spectrum.

Pace is terrible. I’m a highly educated woman and the navel gazing and lack of resilience by the women in the group was on another level. Women who acted traumatized because they had a child and then support group leaders who encouraged the hysterical behavior. I’d never seen anything like it. Originally I thought it was a way to make friends and socialize. No, it is a group support group for women and it encourages the idea that women should change and give up their lives once they have had kids. Go to a PACE group and you’ll easily see what’s wrong with modern day parenting.

That’s if you can even afford it, and have the time to go. I tried to sign up and by the time they got back to me I was heading back to work. They suggested I take time off to attend, like that was even possible. But then I couldn’t afford it anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

The particular question I think says “have you ever been told by a healthcare provider that you have a mental health condition” which I feel like could include “you’re a little depressed” or “having some anxiety.” It doesn’t say “diagnosis.” That sounds like anyone who has talked to a therapist or a primary care doctor during Covid honestly.

But also ironically I think a very high percentage of women who’ve had babies would be in that boat particularly if they had postpartum care from an OB because at a minimum you’re discussing the depression screener at the six week PP appointment.

I’m a highly educated white liberal woman under 40 so like, I did a PACE group and for sure I would answer yes because of discussing PPA/D symptoms which almost everyone has but I wouldn’t say I was diagnosed or even had PPA/D enough to need medical care but it’s kind of a spectrum.

Pace is terrible. I’m a highly educated woman and the navel gazing and lack of resilience by the women in the group was on another level. Women who acted traumatized because they had a child and then support group leaders who encouraged the hysterical behavior. I’d never seen anything like it. Originally I thought it was a way to make friends and socialize. No, it is a group support group for women and it encourages the idea that women should change and give up their lives once they have had kids. Go to a PACE group and you’ll easily see what’s wrong with modern day parenting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.

The particular question I think says “have you ever been told by a healthcare provider that you have a mental health condition” which I feel like could include “you’re a little depressed” or “having some anxiety.” It doesn’t say “diagnosis.” That sounds like anyone who has talked to a therapist or a primary care doctor during Covid honestly.

But also ironically I think a very high percentage of women who’ve had babies would be in that boat particularly if they had postpartum care from an OB because at a minimum you’re discussing the depression screener at the six week PP appointment.

I’m a highly educated white liberal woman under 40 so like, I did a PACE group and for sure I would answer yes because of discussing PPA/D symptoms which almost everyone has but I wouldn’t say I was diagnosed or even had PPA/D enough to need medical care but it’s kind of a spectrum.

Mormons are overwhelmingly politically conservative but have the highest rate of mental illness in the country.

https://www.abc4.com/news/utah-has-the-highest-rate-of-mental-health-illness-in-the-u-s/amp/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Struck a nerve? Is it because you are white, progressive, and mentally ill?

You were wrong again, BTW:

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/2021/04/15/pew_young_liberal_white_women_suffer_mental_health_issues_772771.html#!

You could have provided the link from the jump. You’re obviously more interested in insulting people than having an intelligent discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

It’s true the data shows white liberal women are “more likely to seek mental health evaluations” which simply means they have access to healthcare.