Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are so, soooo dumb.

Draining their entire life savings to pay for college.

Morons.

Send your damn kid to the community college for 2 years then transfer to a state school with living from home arrangements for the last 2 years.

You idiots wipe out your entire savings so your stupid kids can have the 'college experience' and get the same damn basic education your state and community colleges offer. A BS degree matters so sooooooooo little over the longrun. Just get the cheapest one possible. I can't believe there are still millions of really stupid people out there willing to pay over $100k for a useless BS degree.

Community college is for academic failures to gain a 2nd chance. Kids will good grades are already getting into the state colleges first time round.

NP— absolutely wrong. I graduated in top 5% of my class and scored in top 5% of SAT, but would have needed to take out loans to attend college so instead I attended community college as I could easily work part time to pay for school while living at home.

After getting AA degree I started 3rd year of college at UC Berkeley. This was common in California in the 80s and seems common still.

It is an option for academic failures in today's world PP. I know you did this in the 80s and I applaud you, but its not the same. CC kids are flunking out of CC all over California. A very tiny minority are getting into the UC

Do you have the data to back that up?

Info published by University of California supports a continuing history of CC students successfully transfering to UC schools. I'm not suggesting that the majority of CC students go on to UC, but if you are a high school senior that is otherwise a good candidate for UC, but you'd like to save $, I don't see anything suggesting that you shouldn't do it. Not in the 80s and not now.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school

DP. The real students probably are still transferring at a respectable rate, but especially since online, CCs are overrun with identity fraud for aid theft. When they aren't close to catching all the thieves, presumably the enrollment numbers and transfer rates aren't accurate. https://www.sfchronicle.com/california/article/college-aid-scam-18119117.php

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to compare like for like student, Dunn and Kruger is no longer the most recent large scale study (much to the dismay of mediocre schools everywhere).

"Using a new research design that isolates idiosyncratic variation in admissions decisions for waitlisted applicants, we show that attending an Ivy-Plus college instead of the average highly selective public flagship institution increases students’ chances of reaching the top 1% of the earnings distribution by 60%, nearly doubles their chances of attending an elite graduate school, and triples their chances of working at a prestigious firm."

...

"Using this design, we find that being admitted to an Ivy-Plus college increases students’ chances of
achieving upper-tail success on both monetary and non-monetary dimensions. Relative to those rejected
from the waitlist, applicants admitted from the waitlist are significantly more likely to reach the top 1% of the income distribution, attend an elite graduate school, and work at a prestigious firm. In contrast, we find a small and statistically insignificant impact of admission from the waitlist on mean earning ranks and the
probability of reaching the top quartile of the income distribution; the causal impacts of Ivy-Plus colleges are concentrated entirely in reaching the upper tail of the distribution, consistent with the predominance of students from such colleges in positions of leadership that motivated this study"


https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/CollegeAdmissions_Paper.pdf

You can do ok with a degree from a state flagship, but if you want to be really successful, the school matters

The real world is laughing at this.

Work at a F200. 90+% of senior leadership from C-suite down to the MDs and SVPs and VPS did not go to Ivy schools. Many went to utter no name schools. You'd be shocked.

--Double Ivy grad.

THIS^^^^

Partner is a CEO, has been at 3 companies. At all 3 companies, only 1 person at each had an Ivy degree or a T25 degree. Majority went to no name or their state schools, so not even 25-50 ranked. So how did they get to their positions? By hard work, drive and determination. It's what you do with your knowledge and degree and the relationships you build over time in the workforce that enable you to be successful---it's not attending Harvard or Yale.

The example of CEOs and even VPs is pretty pointless. Most people, even most Ivy grads, are not CEOs. More useful is comparing salaries for the same major at various schools.

For example, salary at age 45 for economics major:
Harvard: $181k
Yale: $210k
Amherst: $180k
Ohio State: $79k
Penn State: $99k
UVA: $127k
W&M: $98k

Significant difference between (Ivy or elite SLAC) and (state flagship or good in-state school).

Unlike you, I went to an Ivy and also have a professional degree from another Ivy. I know where my classmates ended up.

These surveys are meaningless. Comparing Harvard to Ohio state is meaningless because the range of student capabilities is apples and oranges. But if you compare the top 5% of Ohio state econ grads to Harvard econ grads, then you get a very different set of numbers.

Some of the best and brightest kids in the country do go to Harvard and the other elite colleges. Which is not surprising. And they will do extremely well. And they will still have done extremely well had they gone to Ohio state.

THIS^^^

You have to compare the "Harvard qualified students" from Ohio State, not the 1200/3.4 UW/1 AP kid at Ohio state. Also, not everyone has a goal of making the most money they possibly can, many choose a job for what they enjoy---so they might take a less prestigious/less paying career path with economics in order to make themselves happy. Also the Ohio state grad is more likely to be living in the midwest/ohio, not NYC or Boston or DC, so salary will be commensurate with location.

My kid is in finance yet has no desire to work Hedge funds or Private Equity. Doesn't mean they are not successful or happy.

Anonymous wrote:You can get into a top 50 school, and before you have your first class it may no longer be in the top 50. Do you still go to a top 50 school? Same with every other "top" BS.

Pick a school for fit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I get that $90K is a rounding error for some on here and two weeks' salaries for others.

But I bet that for most of us, $360K is not an insignificant amount.
And yet we're fighting each other for the privilege of paying it.

We are truly idiots for playing into this. Excuse my insult as I include myself in that group.

PP here. Yes we are. And what, exactly, are we getting for these dollars I ask myself as we work through another move in?

A nice campus with dorms that are old and need renovations. Food that is mediocre at best according to DC. Staff, staff, staff and more administrators.

As a consumer then - What are the very best options where you get the most bang for your money?
Please someone provide a link to that list

This is the right question to ask.

Which schools are providing the most resources, the best extras, that make the time at the University worth it? However, you measure… Whether that’s in lifetime earnings potential , or in other ways like renovated dorms with amazing student centric or focused substantive resources/ platforms, and fantastic food.

I’m not interested in paying more for amenities like renovated dorms, student gyms and fancy food. I will pay more for a small number of schools with superior education (MIT, Caltech) or significant prestige (Harvard, Princeton, Yale). Other than those it is one of our fabulous in state VA colleges. Full pay to most colleges is just a waste.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are so, soooo dumb.

Draining their entire life savings to pay for college.

Morons.

Send your damn kid to the community college for 2 years then transfer to a state school with living from home arrangements for the last 2 years.

You idiots wipe out your entire savings so your stupid kids can have the 'college experience' and get the same damn basic education your state and community colleges offer. A BS degree matters so sooooooooo little over the longrun. Just get the cheapest one possible. I can't believe there are still millions of really stupid people out there willing to pay over $100k for a useless BS degree.

Community college is for academic failures to gain a 2nd chance. Kids will good grades are already getting into the state colleges first time round.

NP— absolutely wrong. I graduated in top 5% of my class and scored in top 5% of SAT, but would have needed to take out loans to attend college so instead I attended community college as I could easily work part time to pay for school while living at home.

After getting AA degree I started 3rd year of college at UC Berkeley. This was common in California in the 80s and seems common still.

It is an option for academic failures in today's world PP. I know you did this in the 80s and I applaud you, but its not the same. CC kids are flunking out of CC all over California. A very tiny minority are getting into the UC

Do you have the data to back that up?

Info published by University of California supports a continuing history of CC students successfully transfering to UC schools. I'm not suggesting that the majority of CC students go on to UC, but if you are a high school senior that is otherwise a good candidate for UC, but you'd like to save $, I don't see anything suggesting that you shouldn't do it. Not in the 80s and not now.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in the Midwest in an area where going to college was the expectation, but very little prestige given to this school over that. People mostly went public.

But .. there was also an expectation that kids got cars over their own in their teen years (new, nice cars). People cared indeed about brand names. People got married pretty young, bought an home at 30, and had their 3 or 4 kids by the time they were in their mid 30.

My parents were east coast transplants and we had to use the family car when it was free and applied to colleges further afield. We all went to Ivy League schools (in the day when it wasn’t that hard for full pay kids).

And now I live in Brooklyn and see this mania up close.

But as I watch my Midwest friends repeating this cycle I think, that’s a better way. It’s weird how this college thing overtakes a childhood. My old friends had more kids, roomy houses, less financial stress, got a lake house in MI or WI, are on track for retirement, and their kids had carefree childhoods. They all have fulfilling jobs. Their kids will too.

Why do we do this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are so, soooo dumb.

Draining their entire life savings to pay for college.

Morons.

Send your damn kid to the community college for 2 years then transfer to a state school with living from home arrangements for the last 2 years.

You idiots wipe out your entire savings so your stupid kids can have the 'college experience' and get the same damn basic education your state and community colleges offer. A BS degree matters so sooooooooo little over the longrun. Just get the cheapest one possible. I can't believe there are still millions of really stupid people out there willing to pay over $100k for a useless BS degree.

Community college is for academic failures to gain a 2nd chance. Kids will good grades are already getting into the state colleges first time round.

NP— absolutely wrong. I graduated in top 5% of my class and scored in top 5% of SAT, but would have needed to take out loans to attend college so instead I attended community college as I could easily work part time to pay for school while living at home.

After getting AA degree I started 3rd year of college at UC Berkeley. This was common in California in the 80s and seems common still.

It is an option for academic failures in today's world PP. I know you did this in the 80s and I applaud you, but its not the same. CC kids are flunking out of CC all over California. A very tiny minority are getting into the UC

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay does help with admissions. First, full pay kids can more often apply ED because they're not comparing FA packages. Second, most schools are NOT need blind, so $$ factors in at some point. It might be just for the last 10% of the class, but that can make a difference. If you need aid, best to apply ED to a need-blind school.

Yes---schools know who has filled out FAFSA and who hasn't when you apply. They may say they dont, but I can assure you they do. ED is a huge part as well--it signals Fully pay if no fafsa was filed

Even people that don't qualify for aid fill out the FAFSA, everyone is told they should for potential merit aid.

Not true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay does help with admissions. First, full pay kids can more often apply ED because they're not comparing FA packages. Second, most schools are NOT need blind, so $$ factors in at some point. It might be just for the last 10% of the class, but that can make a difference. If you need aid, best to apply ED to a need-blind school.

Yes---schools know who has filled out FAFSA and who hasn't when you apply. They may say they dont, but I can assure you they do. ED is a huge part as well--it signals Fully pay if no fafsa was filed

Even people that don't qualify for aid fill out the FAFSA, everyone is told they should for potential merit aid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay does help with admissions. First, full pay kids can more often apply ED because they're not comparing FA packages. Second, most schools are NOT need blind, so $$ factors in at some point. It might be just for the last 10% of the class, but that can make a difference. If you need aid, best to apply ED to a need-blind school.

Yes---schools know who has filled out FAFSA and who hasn't when you apply. They may say they dont, but I can assure you they do. ED is a huge part as well--it signals Fully pay if no fafsa was filed

Even people that don't qualify for aid fill out the FAFSA, everyone is told they should for potential merit aid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are so, soooo dumb.

Draining their entire life savings to pay for college.

Morons.

Send your damn kid to the community college for 2 years then transfer to a state school with living from home arrangements for the last 2 years.

You idiots wipe out your entire savings so your stupid kids can have the 'college experience' and get the same damn basic education your state and community colleges offer. A BS degree matters so sooooooooo little over the longrun. Just get the cheapest one possible. I can't believe there are still millions of really stupid people out there willing to pay over $100k for a useless BS degree.

Community college is for academic failures to gain a 2nd chance. Kids will good grades are already getting into the state colleges first time round.

NP— absolutely wrong. I graduated in top 5% of my class and scored in top 5% of SAT, but would have needed to take out loans to attend college so instead I attended community college as I could easily work part time to pay for school while living at home.

After getting AA degree I started 3rd year of college at UC Berkeley. This was common in California in the 80s and seems common still.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full pay does help with admissions. First, full pay kids can more often apply ED because they're not comparing FA packages. Second, most schools are NOT need blind, so $$ factors in at some point. It might be just for the last 10% of the class, but that can make a difference. If you need aid, best to apply ED to a need-blind school.

Yes---schools know who has filled out FAFSA and who hasn't when you apply. They may say they dont, but I can assure you they do. ED is a huge part as well--it signals Fully pay if no fafsa was filed

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are so, soooo dumb.

Draining their entire life savings to pay for college.

Morons.

Send your damn kid to the community college for 2 years then transfer to a state school with living from home arrangements for the last 2 years.

You idiots wipe out your entire savings so your stupid kids can have the 'college experience' and get the same damn basic education your state and community colleges offer. A BS degree matters so sooooooooo little over the longrun. Just get the cheapest one possible. I can't believe there are still millions of really stupid people out there willing to pay over $100k for a useless BS degree.

Community college is for academic failures to gain a 2nd chance. Kids will good grades are already getting into the state colleges first time round.

NP— absolutely wrong. I graduated in top 5% of my class and scored in top 5% of SAT, but would have needed to take out loans to attend college so instead I attended community college as I could easily work part time to pay for school while living at home.

After getting AA degree I started 3rd year of college at UC Berkeley. This was common in California in the 80s and seems common still.

Fewer than 40% of community college students earn a degree or a certificate within 6 years of enrolling

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/community-college-completion-rates-structural-and-motivational-barriers/

They are a great thing and should be supported, but they are not a panacea

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are so, soooo dumb.

Draining their entire life savings to pay for college.

Morons.

Send your damn kid to the community college for 2 years then transfer to a state school with living from home arrangements for the last 2 years.

You idiots wipe out your entire savings so your stupid kids can have the 'college experience' and get the same damn basic education your state and community colleges offer. A BS degree matters so sooooooooo little over the longrun. Just get the cheapest one possible. I can't believe there are still millions of really stupid people out there willing to pay over $100k for a useless BS degree.

Community college is for academic failures to gain a 2nd chance. Kids will good grades are already getting into the state colleges first time round.

NP— absolutely wrong. I graduated in top 5% of my class and scored in top 5% of SAT, but would have needed to take out loans to attend college so instead I attended community college as I could easily work part time to pay for school while living at home.

After getting AA degree I started 3rd year of college at UC Berkeley. This was common in California in the 80s and seems common still.