Anonymous
Post 07/23/2022 08:56     Subject: Re:When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because I want nothing to damage my kid’s relationship with my ex.

I don't understand why your need to help your ex trumps your own relationship with your kids and your own relationship with yourself. Why do you keep needing to help your ex? If the kids see him/her on their own and you made the divorce not about them what difference does it make? I really don't understand how hiding something someone did helps anyone. This is where we differ. If we really want our children to accept us as who we are and accept themselves as who they are, we have to actually be who we are.


She's not helping her ex. She's helping her kid, who is better off if they have a good relationship with her ex. And she cares about her kid's wellbeing more than she cares about hurting her ex so is comfortable doing something that will be good for her child, even if a side effect is that it will help her ex.

Your lack of understanding that is truly at the crux of the argument between the two sides here.


But she's not helping her child. She's presenting a false world.


I literally do not understand this take. The marriage is between mom and dad. Marriages end all the time for a lot of reasons. The parent relationship is between the kid and parent. The parents have autonomy to decide if they want to continue to be in their marriage. They can leave at any time for any reason. And the reasons are almost always complex.

A child, even a 15 year old, does not have a full grasp on complicated long term romantic relationships and marriage. They just do not. So any situation where you are providing intimate details and selling a side is like...putting a physics proof on the chalkboard of an english class. Maybe they have some ideas/understanding depending on their age, but they really do not have enough of a grasp on your marriage to get something meaningful out of telling them something in isolation.

And again, as people have said over and over, by getting into the weeds with the kid, you're passing on responsibility to act to them. You're asking them to have an opinion or reaction to that that is tied to how they feel about you.

I know the cheated upons don't want to admit this because they have shown here for the last 20 pages that they live a life of sweeping generalizations and stereotypes rather than in a nuanced world of flawed human individuals who are all different, when someone decides to leave a marriage, they do not also decide to not be a parent. Certainly their relationship with the child is EFFECTED, but it isn't DETERMINED by the ending of a marriage. And a CHILD is better off when both parents are loving and committed to their wellbeing and facilitate their having a loving relationship with the other parent.

So by ensuring your kid knows what's important for THEM (ie, the marriage is ending because of something very serious that occurred between mom and dad but something that has nothing to do with you, child, and you will be fine because this is where I am going to live and this is where Dad is going to live and this is when you'll go back and forth and we just want you to know we both love you very much) versus what is important for YOU (your dad slept with his secretary MELINDA so im KICKING HIM OUT) you are not creating a false world. It is only false if you make it so. Plenty of divorced couples live in a way to make that first version 100% true. It is only false if you decide its more important for the kid to hate the other parent then to grow up feeling stable and loved.


I agree with you. And yes, I’m absolutely for giving my kids the truth but that doesn’t mean always sharing the gory details, especially when they are too young to understand. That said, I’m absolutely going to be more candid with my kids when they get older. I don’t want them to think that what they saw and heard their father go to me is normal, healthy behavior. I focus on the fact that he loves them and cares for them for now. I acknowledge that we aren’t together as a family because dad didn’t like mom. But I do not go into specifics at this stage. It’s not important and would only serve to further destabilize my kids more than their lives have already been destabilized.

I’ve consulted child psychologists on this front and this is how they’ve recommended I proceed to protect my kids but also preserve honesty in my relationship with them. I don’t want to gaslight them; they saw and heard what they saw and heard. They just are too young to really understand it.
Anonymous
Post 07/23/2022 06:42     Subject: When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Gaslight the whole family. Base family history on lies and secrets, what could go wrong?


You can keep calling it this but that doesn’t make it true. Of course sometimes it’s true but again the problem is generally terrible parenting not the decision to give your children age appropriate information


It’s exactly what it is. Spending your time, money, and mental space on another person that is not your spouse or child is not good parenting, nor is it putting your children first. That’s why people keep affairs secret. Affairs are wrong, so cheaters scurry around in the shadows and hide their actions and activities. They know it’s wrong so they hide it. Then, when they are found out, they want to further hide what they’ve done, so they pretend it’s something nobody should talk about. Meanwhile, the kids are not first and now the lives of the kids are torn apart and it’s considered improper to tell kids the truth about their family and their lives.

Cheaters on this thread clearly show they don’t understand their children deserve truth and honesty, and that’s why the cycle of abuse continues. Cheating is abuse, it’s lies, it’s selfishness.

Basing a family history on lies, outright lies or lies of omission, to cover up what a parent has done to destroy a family, is wrong.
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 23:24     Subject: When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:Gaslight the whole family. Base family history on lies and secrets, what could go wrong?


You can keep calling it this but that doesn’t make it true. Of course sometimes it’s true but again the problem is generally terrible parenting not the decision to give your children age appropriate information
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 22:13     Subject: When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Gaslight the whole family. Base family history on lies and secrets, what could go wrong?
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 16:53     Subject: When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:I’ve never once seen a cheating parent advocate for telling, which tells me that hiding the truth is not really about the best interest of the kids.


+100
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 16:03     Subject: Re:When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because I want nothing to damage my kid’s relationship with my ex.

I don't understand why your need to help your ex trumps your own relationship with your kids and your own relationship with yourself. Why do you keep needing to help your ex? If the kids see him/her on their own and you made the divorce not about them what difference does it make? I really don't understand how hiding something someone did helps anyone. This is where we differ. If we really want our children to accept us as who we are and accept themselves as who they are, we have to actually be who we are.


She's not helping her ex. She's helping her kid, who is better off if they have a good relationship with her ex. And she cares about her kid's wellbeing more than she cares about hurting her ex so is comfortable doing something that will be good for her child, even if a side effect is that it will help her ex.

Your lack of understanding that is truly at the crux of the argument between the two sides here.


But she's not helping her child. She's presenting a false world.


I literally do not understand this take. The marriage is between mom and dad. Marriages end all the time for a lot of reasons. The parent relationship is between the kid and parent. The parents have autonomy to decide if they want to continue to be in their marriage. They can leave at any time for any reason. And the reasons are almost always complex.

A child, even a 15 year old, does not have a full grasp on complicated long term romantic relationships and marriage. They just do not. So any situation where you are providing intimate details and selling a side is like...putting a physics proof on the chalkboard of an english class. Maybe they have some ideas/understanding depending on their age, but they really do not have enough of a grasp on your marriage to get something meaningful out of telling them something in isolation.

And again, as people have said over and over, by getting into the weeds with the kid, you're passing on responsibility to act to them. You're asking them to have an opinion or reaction to that that is tied to how they feel about you.

I know the cheated upons don't want to admit this because they have shown here for the last 20 pages that they live a life of sweeping generalizations and stereotypes rather than in a nuanced world of flawed human individuals who are all different, when someone decides to leave a marriage, they do not also decide to not be a parent. Certainly their relationship with the child is EFFECTED, but it isn't DETERMINED by the ending of a marriage. And a CHILD is better off when both parents are loving and committed to their wellbeing and facilitate their having a loving relationship with the other parent.

So by ensuring your kid knows what's important for THEM (ie, the marriage is ending because of something very serious that occurred between mom and dad but something that has nothing to do with you, child, and you will be fine because this is where I am going to live and this is where Dad is going to live and this is when you'll go back and forth and we just want you to know we both love you very much) versus what is important for YOU (your dad slept with his secretary MELINDA so im KICKING HIM OUT) you are not creating a false world. It is only false if you make it so. Plenty of divorced couples live in a way to make that first version 100% true. It is only false if you decide its more important for the kid to hate the other parent then to grow up feeling stable and loved.


+1 very well said
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 16:00     Subject: Re:When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because I want nothing to damage my kid’s relationship with my ex.

I don't understand why your need to help your ex trumps your own relationship with your kids and your own relationship with yourself. Why do you keep needing to help your ex? If the kids see him/her on their own and you made the divorce not about them what difference does it make? I really don't understand how hiding something someone did helps anyone. This is where we differ. If we really want our children to accept us as who we are and accept themselves as who they are, we have to actually be who we are.


She's not helping her ex. She's helping her kid, who is better off if they have a good relationship with her ex. And she cares about her kid's wellbeing more than she cares about hurting her ex so is comfortable doing something that will be good for her child, even if a side effect is that it will help her ex.

Your lack of understanding that is truly at the crux of the argument between the two sides here.



This!


Why can’t the ex be in charge of his good relationship with his own child? Cheating doesn’t hurt just the adults in the family; it hurts the entire family. Pets even suffer; family pets are often abandoned at shelters because living arrangements after divorce change and pets cannot be taken to the new apartment or rental home. Families lose their homes, too. Cheating and the resulting divorce is often catastrophic and completely changes everything.


The ex is in charge of his good relationship with his own child. But acting like the other parent doesn't have power there is willfully ignorant.

My parents divorced when I was very small. Cheating happened but IMO was incidental to the actual dissolution of the relationship. It was my mother (and stepfather actually) who cheated on their spouses, both got divorced, then they got married. My mom got primary custody and spent the next 15 years telling me my dad was an immature lazy guy who wasn't ready to have kids and be wounded whenever it was apparent that I loved him. She has openly said I should be grateful for her taking care of me and doing the 'hard' parenting while he got to be a weekend dad. And like, kind of that is true but mostly because she wouldn't let him see me.

Anyway, my mom is psycho, I didn't find out about the cheating until I was a teen or in my 20s (I found out by finding paperwork on their divorces with VERY similar and suspicious timing, and then my brother from the second marriage found them and told me about it, he was more upset than I was!). But I guess my thesis here is that my dad decided he was responsible for his relationship with me and my mom decided she was responsible for manipulating my relationship with everyone. And now I have a close relationship with my dad and a terrible one with my mom. Because of the things she did to ME, that I clearly saw, because her personality flaws were apparent. My dad didn't say a word and I have issues with some decisions he made and I think he should have fought harder to protect me, but he let me get there on my own.

He made decisions about HIMSELF in relation to my mom and let me make my own decisions about her. And that is giving your kids autonomy, and allowing them to individuate from you.

<insert exceptions I have acknowledged here many times for situations where parent has abandoned family or kid will find out due to circumstances or when a child asks the question directly>
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 15:45     Subject: When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:I’ve never once seen a cheating parent advocate for telling, which tells me that hiding the truth is not really about the best interest of the kids.


My parents cheated. I did not find out until my late 40s. I would have been fine never knowing. I think it was in our best interest
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 15:35     Subject: Re:When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because I want nothing to damage my kid’s relationship with my ex.

I don't understand why your need to help your ex trumps your own relationship with your kids and your own relationship with yourself. Why do you keep needing to help your ex? If the kids see him/her on their own and you made the divorce not about them what difference does it make? I really don't understand how hiding something someone did helps anyone. This is where we differ. If we really want our children to accept us as who we are and accept themselves as who they are, we have to actually be who we are.


She's not helping her ex. She's helping her kid, who is better off if they have a good relationship with her ex. And she cares about her kid's wellbeing more than she cares about hurting her ex so is comfortable doing something that will be good for her child, even if a side effect is that it will help her ex.

Your lack of understanding that is truly at the crux of the argument between the two sides here.


But she's not helping her child. She's presenting a false world.


I literally do not understand this take. The marriage is between mom and dad. Marriages end all the time for a lot of reasons. The parent relationship is between the kid and parent. The parents have autonomy to decide if they want to continue to be in their marriage. They can leave at any time for any reason. And the reasons are almost always complex.

A child, even a 15 year old, does not have a full grasp on complicated long term romantic relationships and marriage. They just do not. So any situation where you are providing intimate details and selling a side is like...putting a physics proof on the chalkboard of an english class. Maybe they have some ideas/understanding depending on their age, but they really do not have enough of a grasp on your marriage to get something meaningful out of telling them something in isolation.

And again, as people have said over and over, by getting into the weeds with the kid, you're passing on responsibility to act to them. You're asking them to have an opinion or reaction to that that is tied to how they feel about you.

I know the cheated upons don't want to admit this because they have shown here for the last 20 pages that they live a life of sweeping generalizations and stereotypes rather than in a nuanced world of flawed human individuals who are all different, when someone decides to leave a marriage, they do not also decide to not be a parent. Certainly their relationship with the child is EFFECTED, but it isn't DETERMINED by the ending of a marriage. And a CHILD is better off when both parents are loving and committed to their wellbeing and facilitate their having a loving relationship with the other parent.

So by ensuring your kid knows what's important for THEM (ie, the marriage is ending because of something very serious that occurred between mom and dad but something that has nothing to do with you, child, and you will be fine because this is where I am going to live and this is where Dad is going to live and this is when you'll go back and forth and we just want you to know we both love you very much) versus what is important for YOU (your dad slept with his secretary MELINDA so im KICKING HIM OUT) you are not creating a false world. It is only false if you make it so. Plenty of divorced couples live in a way to make that first version 100% true. It is only false if you decide its more important for the kid to hate the other parent then to grow up feeling stable and loved.
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 15:02     Subject: Re:When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because I want nothing to damage my kid’s relationship with my ex.

I don't understand why your need to help your ex trumps your own relationship with your kids and your own relationship with yourself. Why do you keep needing to help your ex? If the kids see him/her on their own and you made the divorce not about them what difference does it make? I really don't understand how hiding something someone did helps anyone. This is where we differ. If we really want our children to accept us as who we are and accept themselves as who they are, we have to actually be who we are.


She's not helping her ex. She's helping her kid, who is better off if they have a good relationship with her ex. And she cares about her kid's wellbeing more than she cares about hurting her ex so is comfortable doing something that will be good for her child, even if a side effect is that it will help her ex.

Your lack of understanding that is truly at the crux of the argument between the two sides here.



This!


Why can’t the ex be in charge of his good relationship with his own child? Cheating doesn’t hurt just the adults in the family; it hurts the entire family. Pets even suffer; family pets are often abandoned at shelters because living arrangements after divorce change and pets cannot be taken to the new apartment or rental home. Families lose their homes, too. Cheating and the resulting divorce is often catastrophic and completely changes everything.
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 14:50     Subject: Re:When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because I want nothing to damage my kid’s relationship with my ex.

I don't understand why your need to help your ex trumps your own relationship with your kids and your own relationship with yourself. Why do you keep needing to help your ex? If the kids see him/her on their own and you made the divorce not about them what difference does it make? I really don't understand how hiding something someone did helps anyone. This is where we differ. If we really want our children to accept us as who we are and accept themselves as who they are, we have to actually be who we are.


She's not helping her ex. She's helping her kid, who is better off if they have a good relationship with her ex. And she cares about her kid's wellbeing more than she cares about hurting her ex so is comfortable doing something that will be good for her child, even if a side effect is that it will help her ex.

Your lack of understanding that is truly at the crux of the argument between the two sides here.



This!
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 14:48     Subject: Re:When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:I was not born in America, so I can't relate to this American thing where cheating is seen as the highest level of evil, but then also Americans are willing to vote for a president who cheated on his wife with a porn star, while his wife was pregnant.


It's not. It is one of the reasons most churches will allow a divorce though. This question was about cheating, not about other things. Do you agree that physical abuse should be kept secret? That cheating be kept secret? Why all the secrets and for how long? Is that even realistic in the day and age where you can't hide anything for long. That's what this question is about.
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 14:32     Subject: Re:When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
I was not born in America, so I can't relate to this American thing where cheating is seen as the highest level of evil, but then also Americans are willing to vote for a president who cheated on his wife with a porn star, while his wife was pregnant.
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 14:26     Subject: When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
I’ve never once seen a cheating parent advocate for telling, which tells me that hiding the truth is not really about the best interest of the kids.
Anonymous
Post 07/22/2022 14:22     Subject: When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce
Anonymous wrote:I am the kid in this situation and figured it out when I was 22. It's very hard to keep a secret lifelong if you'd tat with the AP. I would rather have been told, and not lied to when I asked directly. I feel like they lied to me to manipulate me into accepting his new wife, and to avoid dealing with my reaction. Very self-serving behavior that was not with my best interest at heart.



I agree with this. It was kept from me and I found out when I was 30!!! Then I learned the "story" in bits and pieces over another 10 years. While I am not sure how young would be too young, I think kids should be told in an appropriate way. No need to give details and extra negative commentary. Then think about therapy for the child/children so they can work through the complex feelings that are sure to come up. There is no such thing as being blissfully ignorant as a child in this situation. Not knowing when others know and family dynamics get more complicated only adds layer upon layer to the wound. The sense of betrayal will be more intense and healing will take much longer. Not knowing what happened can effect emotional growth and the capability of being a happy well-functioning adult.

I agree with the above poster that parents in this situation tend to be self-serving either out of selfishness or because they are simply trying to deal with the situation the best way they can. The adulterous parent doesn't necessarily want to own up to their behavior and deal with how it effects his/her children. And the parent that was cheated on often is in survival mode and unable to help their children.