Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Social climber parents confuse their kid being in the same dorm as rich kids or at parties with rich kids to be the same as genuinely in that sphere. Or even going on spring break with them.

You’re only in that sphere when you’re still living with them and vacationing with them AFTER college. And you’re REALLY in that sphere when you’re allowed to marry a high status boy or girl from that sphere. When these wealthy college friends are introducing you to potential spouses, ex their attractive siblings or classmates they went to prep school with, et al.

Most of the “connections” strivers THINK they made in college cease when everyone graduates. Maybe they’ll get invited to a wedding or two. That’s about it. Your kid is nothing to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Social climber parents confuse their kid being in the same dorm as rich kids or at parties with rich kids to be the same as genuinely in that sphere. Or even going on spring break with them.

You’re only in that sphere when you’re still living with them and vacationing with them AFTER college. And you’re REALLY in that sphere when you’re allowed to marry a high status boy or girl from that sphere. When these wealthy college friends are introducing you to potential spouses, ex their attractive siblings or classmates they went to prep school with, et al.

Most of the “connections” strivers THINK they made in college cease when everyone graduates. Maybe they’ll get invited to a wedding or two. That’s about it. Your kid is nothing to them.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy and loved it but I have always been surprised that people want their kids to go to Ivies to connect with rich people. At my Ivy (Brown) the boarding school/NYC private school uber rich mainly hung out with each other. I love my college friends but they and their connections did not help me get jobs. Nor did my parents help them get jobs. None of our parents were in a position to do that and now we all have such different careers that our professional networks do not overlap at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You think those kids going into consulting are only making $60k? Kind of makes me doubt the rest of your post, honey.

More misconceptions. Even at HYPS, Bain, McKinsey and Boston offers are scarce and extremely cutthroat. The bulk of the class will go onto places like PwC and other normal 9-5 gigs often branded as “consulting” — $60k offer is pretty average in that bucket.

Yup. A lot of them also tell people they're going into roles with some inflated title after graduation to make them feel better about themselves

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You think those kids going into consulting are only making $60k? Kind of makes me doubt the rest of your post, honey.

More misconceptions. Even at HYPS, Bain, McKinsey and Boston offers are scarce and extremely cutthroat. The bulk of the class will go onto places like PwC and other normal 9-5 gigs often branded as “consulting” — $60k offer is pretty average in that bucket.

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Anonymous wrote:I think the ROI studies are interesting data, but it needs to be taken in context. We will Likely spend anywhere from $200k-350k on a humanities type of degree for our daughter over the next 4 years. Full pay, don’t know where she will be going yet so the cost is a range. We are DC residents so no great state school. We are not wealthy but have planned for this. We want her to have a certain kind of opportunity to go to a school that is the best fit for her. If we had to borrow the money or she did, it would be very different kind of analysis. I did not think of return on investment for all the money we have spent on many things for our child, this is the biggest thing, and important in so many ways, but we are not measuring its value with only that in mind.

If you are rich enough, ROI doesn't really matter to you. Thanks for the great insight!

Exactly lol

I hear what PP is saying. You don't look at every dime spent on the kid as an investment in need of a return. Sure, to have saved this much, they must be UMC, but they saved and have it and don't view it that way. We are similar though less affluent. We have one in college and another applying next year. We'll get need based FA from top schools or merit for other schools, will have about 100k saved and will plan to pay some as they go. I do want my kid to have options to support herself, which factored into university choice (cache/networks), but I am not looking at numbers on ROI. Part of higher ed is the ed, not just training to a certain income level.

The main point of college is ROI. Full stop. And that's doubly true for your kids, who aren't wealthy enough to be from a full-pay family.

No it's not. And, it wasn't for me and my parents either. You live in a very small world if you think you have any idea about higher ed. I have both humanities and fine arts degrees from a middle class background. Your view of higher education is extremely limited -- it's education, not just training.

Okay. So what do you suggest a middle class student with a BA in English do besides law school?

They're SOL. No way to save up for a downpayment on a house or pay back student loans (if they have any) with a graduate or undergraduate degree in the humanities (except a JD).

Yep. You are correct. No jobs for them.

Except for the million or so types of jobs that have no corresponding college major and benefit from good communications skills.

There are loads of Humanities majors making bank in tech and other fields. Oh and BTW you clearly don't understand ROI or you would demand all college grads pursue investment banking regardless of major..

Who are these people

(non-sequitur pictures deleted)

They are people you know nothing about. You don't know if they are complete and total idiots or not, because they have not posted their stupid, idiotic thoughts in an anonymous forum yet. When they do that, then you will know.

I have an educated guess.
They have ton of students debts and can't pay back.
They didn't think well, was irresponsible, and made bad decisions thinking that they were getting good education and experience.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the ROI studies are interesting data, but it needs to be taken in context. We will Likely spend anywhere from $200k-350k on a humanities type of degree for our daughter over the next 4 years. Full pay, don’t know where she will be going yet so the cost is a range. We are DC residents so no great state school. We are not wealthy but have planned for this. We want her to have a certain kind of opportunity to go to a school that is the best fit for her. If we had to borrow the money or she did, it would be very different kind of analysis. I did not think of return on investment for all the money we have spent on many things for our child, this is the biggest thing, and important in so many ways, but we are not measuring its value with only that in mind.

If you are rich enough, ROI doesn't really matter to you. Thanks for the great insight!

Exactly lol

I hear what PP is saying. You don't look at every dime spent on the kid as an investment in need of a return. Sure, to have saved this much, they must be UMC, but they saved and have it and don't view it that way. We are similar though less affluent. We have one in college and another applying next year. We'll get need based FA from top schools or merit for other schools, will have about 100k saved and will plan to pay some as they go. I do want my kid to have options to support herself, which factored into university choice (cache/networks), but I am not looking at numbers on ROI. Part of higher ed is the ed, not just training to a certain income level.

The main point of college is ROI. Full stop. And that's doubly true for your kids, who aren't wealthy enough to be from a full-pay family.

No it's not. And, it wasn't for me and my parents either. You live in a very small world if you think you have any idea about higher ed. I have both humanities and fine arts degrees from a middle class background. Your view of higher education is extremely limited -- it's education, not just training.

Okay. So what do you suggest a middle class student with a BA in English do besides law school?

They're SOL. No way to save up for a downpayment on a house or pay back student loans (if they have any) with a graduate or undergraduate degree in the humanities (except a JD).

Yep. You are correct. No jobs for them.

Except for the million or so types of jobs that have no corresponding college major and benefit from good communications skills.

There are loads of Humanities majors making bank in tech and other fields. Oh and BTW you clearly don't understand ROI or you would demand all college grads pursue investment banking regardless of major..

Who are these people

(non-sequitur pictures deleted)

They are people you know nothing about. You don't know if they are complete and total idiots or not, because they have not posted their stupid, idiotic thoughts in an anonymous forum yet. When they do that, then you will know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the ROI studies are interesting data, but it needs to be taken in context. We will Likely spend anywhere from $200k-350k on a humanities type of degree for our daughter over the next 4 years. Full pay, don’t know where she will be going yet so the cost is a range. We are DC residents so no great state school. We are not wealthy but have planned for this. We want her to have a certain kind of opportunity to go to a school that is the best fit for her. If we had to borrow the money or she did, it would be very different kind of analysis. I did not think of return on investment for all the money we have spent on many things for our child, this is the biggest thing, and important in so many ways, but we are not measuring its value with only that in mind.

If you are rich enough, ROI doesn't really matter to you. Thanks for the great insight!

Exactly lol

I hear what PP is saying. You don't look at every dime spent on the kid as an investment in need of a return. Sure, to have saved this much, they must be UMC, but they saved and have it and don't view it that way. We are similar though less affluent. We have one in college and another applying next year. We'll get need based FA from top schools or merit for other schools, will have about 100k saved and will plan to pay some as they go. I do want my kid to have options to support herself, which factored into university choice (cache/networks), but I am not looking at numbers on ROI. Part of higher ed is the ed, not just training to a certain income level.

The main point of college is ROI. Full stop. And that's doubly true for your kids, who aren't wealthy enough to be from a full-pay family.

No it's not. And, it wasn't for me and my parents either. You live in a very small world if you think you have any idea about higher ed. I have both humanities and fine arts degrees from a middle class background. Your view of higher education is extremely limited -- it's education, not just training.

Okay. So what do you suggest a middle class student with a BA in English do besides law school?

They're SOL. No way to save up for a downpayment on a house or pay back student loans (if they have any) with a graduate or undergraduate degree in the humanities (except a JD).

Yep. You are correct. No jobs for them.

Except for the million or so types of jobs that have no corresponding college major and benefit from good communications skills.

There are loads of Humanities majors making bank in tech and other fields. Oh and BTW you clearly don't understand ROI or you would demand all college grads pursue investment banking regardless of major..

Who are these people

(non-sequitur pictures deleted)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the ROI studies are interesting data, but it needs to be taken in context. We will Likely spend anywhere from $200k-350k on a humanities type of degree for our daughter over the next 4 years. Full pay, don’t know where she will be going yet so the cost is a range. We are DC residents so no great state school. We are not wealthy but have planned for this. We want her to have a certain kind of opportunity to go to a school that is the best fit for her. If we had to borrow the money or she did, it would be very different kind of analysis. I did not think of return on investment for all the money we have spent on many things for our child, this is the biggest thing, and important in so many ways, but we are not measuring its value with only that in mind.

If you are rich enough, ROI doesn't really matter to you. Thanks for the great insight!

Exactly lol

I hear what PP is saying. You don't look at every dime spent on the kid as an investment in need of a return. Sure, to have saved this much, they must be UMC, but they saved and have it and don't view it that way. We are similar though less affluent. We have one in college and another applying next year. We'll get need based FA from top schools or merit for other schools, will have about 100k saved and will plan to pay some as they go. I do want my kid to have options to support herself, which factored into university choice (cache/networks), but I am not looking at numbers on ROI. Part of higher ed is the ed, not just training to a certain income level.

The main point of college is ROI. Full stop. And that's doubly true for your kids, who aren't wealthy enough to be from a full-pay family.

No it's not. And, it wasn't for me and my parents either. You live in a very small world if you think you have any idea about higher ed. I have both humanities and fine arts degrees from a middle class background. Your view of higher education is extremely limited -- it's education, not just training.

Okay. So what do you suggest a middle class student with a BA in English do besides law school?

They're SOL. No way to save up for a downpayment on a house or pay back student loans (if they have any) with a graduate or undergraduate degree in the humanities (except a JD).

You can become CEO of Disney, like Michael Eisner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Eisner

Dropping out of college is better - Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg

The dumbest possible examples for how to make a life plan.

nb Gates and Eisner came from rich families so they are good examples of "rich people don't need to care about ROI of their college or degree".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the ROI studies are interesting data, but it needs to be taken in context. We will Likely spend anywhere from $200k-350k on a humanities type of degree for our daughter over the next 4 years. Full pay, don’t know where she will be going yet so the cost is a range. We are DC residents so no great state school. We are not wealthy but have planned for this. We want her to have a certain kind of opportunity to go to a school that is the best fit for her. If we had to borrow the money or she did, it would be very different kind of analysis. I did not think of return on investment for all the money we have spent on many things for our child, this is the biggest thing, and important in so many ways, but we are not measuring its value with only that in mind.

If you are rich enough, ROI doesn't really matter to you. Thanks for the great insight!

Exactly lol

I hear what PP is saying. You don't look at every dime spent on the kid as an investment in need of a return. Sure, to have saved this much, they must be UMC, but they saved and have it and don't view it that way. We are similar though less affluent. We have one in college and another applying next year. We'll get need based FA from top schools or merit for other schools, will have about 100k saved and will plan to pay some as they go. I do want my kid to have options to support herself, which factored into university choice (cache/networks), but I am not looking at numbers on ROI. Part of higher ed is the ed, not just training to a certain income level.

The main point of college is ROI. Full stop. And that's doubly true for your kids, who aren't wealthy enough to be from a full-pay family.

No it's not. And, it wasn't for me and my parents either. You live in a very small world if you think you have any idea about higher ed. I have both humanities and fine arts degrees from a middle class background. Your view of higher education is extremely limited -- it's education, not just training.

Okay. So what do you suggest a middle class student with a BA in English do besides law school?

They're SOL. No way to save up for a downpayment on a house or pay back student loans (if they have any) with a graduate or undergraduate degree in the humanities (except a JD).

You can become CEO of Disney, like Michael Eisner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Eisner

Dropping out of college is better - Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the ROI studies are interesting data, but it needs to be taken in context. We will Likely spend anywhere from $200k-350k on a humanities type of degree for our daughter over the next 4 years. Full pay, don’t know where she will be going yet so the cost is a range. We are DC residents so no great state school. We are not wealthy but have planned for this. We want her to have a certain kind of opportunity to go to a school that is the best fit for her. If we had to borrow the money or she did, it would be very different kind of analysis. I did not think of return on investment for all the money we have spent on many things for our child, this is the biggest thing, and important in so many ways, but we are not measuring its value with only that in mind.

If you are rich enough, ROI doesn't really matter to you. Thanks for the great insight!

Exactly lol

I hear what PP is saying. You don't look at every dime spent on the kid as an investment in need of a return. Sure, to have saved this much, they must be UMC, but they saved and have it and don't view it that way. We are similar though less affluent. We have one in college and another applying next year. We'll get need based FA from top schools or merit for other schools, will have about 100k saved and will plan to pay some as they go. I do want my kid to have options to support herself, which factored into university choice (cache/networks), but I am not looking at numbers on ROI. Part of higher ed is the ed, not just training to a certain income level.

The main point of college is ROI. Full stop. And that's doubly true for your kids, who aren't wealthy enough to be from a full-pay family.

No it's not. And, it wasn't for me and my parents either. You live in a very small world if you think you have any idea about higher ed. I have both humanities and fine arts degrees from a middle class background. Your view of higher education is extremely limited -- it's education, not just training.

Okay. So what do you suggest a middle class student with a BA in English do besides law school?

They're SOL. No way to save up for a downpayment on a house or pay back student loans (if they have any) with a graduate or undergraduate degree in the humanities (except a JD).

Yep. You are correct. No jobs for them.

Except for the million or so types of jobs that have no corresponding college major and benefit from good communications skills.

There are loads of Humanities majors making bank in tech and other fields. Oh and BTW you clearly don't understand ROI or you would demand all college grads pursue investment banking regardless of major..

Who are these people

Kids who went to University of Phoenix.

University of Phoenix California CS - $67,814
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?484631-University-of-Phoenix-California&fos_code=1101&fos_credential=3

Harvard Enlish - $43,842
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-University&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3

More like kids who majored in English, History, Communications, Anthropology, etc.

At University of Phoenix, the median federal loan debt among borrowers who completed their undergraduate degree is $32,421

At Harvard University, the median federal loan debt among borrowers who completed their undergraduate degree is $12,665.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the ROI studies are interesting data, but it needs to be taken in context. We will Likely spend anywhere from $200k-350k on a humanities type of degree for our daughter over the next 4 years. Full pay, don’t know where she will be going yet so the cost is a range. We are DC residents so no great state school. We are not wealthy but have planned for this. We want her to have a certain kind of opportunity to go to a school that is the best fit for her. If we had to borrow the money or she did, it would be very different kind of analysis. I did not think of return on investment for all the money we have spent on many things for our child, this is the biggest thing, and important in so many ways, but we are not measuring its value with only that in mind.

If you are rich enough, ROI doesn't really matter to you. Thanks for the great insight!

Exactly lol

I hear what PP is saying. You don't look at every dime spent on the kid as an investment in need of a return. Sure, to have saved this much, they must be UMC, but they saved and have it and don't view it that way. We are similar though less affluent. We have one in college and another applying next year. We'll get need based FA from top schools or merit for other schools, will have about 100k saved and will plan to pay some as they go. I do want my kid to have options to support herself, which factored into university choice (cache/networks), but I am not looking at numbers on ROI. Part of higher ed is the ed, not just training to a certain income level.

The main point of college is ROI. Full stop. And that's doubly true for your kids, who aren't wealthy enough to be from a full-pay family.

No it's not. And, it wasn't for me and my parents either. You live in a very small world if you think you have any idea about higher ed. I have both humanities and fine arts degrees from a middle class background. Your view of higher education is extremely limited -- it's education, not just training.

Okay. So what do you suggest a middle class student with a BA in English do besides law school?

They're SOL. No way to save up for a downpayment on a house or pay back student loans (if they have any) with a graduate or undergraduate degree in the humanities (except a JD).

Yep. You are correct. No jobs for them.

Except for the million or so types of jobs that have no corresponding college major and benefit from good communications skills.

There are loads of Humanities majors making bank in tech and other fields. Oh and BTW you clearly don't understand ROI or you would demand all college grads pursue investment banking regardless of major..

Who are these people

Kids who went to University of Phoenix.

University of Phoenix California CS - $67,814
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?484631-University-of-Phoenix-California&fos_code=1101&fos_credential=3

Harvard Enlish - $43,842
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-University&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3

More like kids who majored in English, History, Communications, Anthropology, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the ROI studies are interesting data, but it needs to be taken in context. We will Likely spend anywhere from $200k-350k on a humanities type of degree for our daughter over the next 4 years. Full pay, don’t know where she will be going yet so the cost is a range. We are DC residents so no great state school. We are not wealthy but have planned for this. We want her to have a certain kind of opportunity to go to a school that is the best fit for her. If we had to borrow the money or she did, it would be very different kind of analysis. I did not think of return on investment for all the money we have spent on many things for our child, this is the biggest thing, and important in so many ways, but we are not measuring its value with only that in mind.

If you are rich enough, ROI doesn't really matter to you. Thanks for the great insight!

Exactly lol

I hear what PP is saying. You don't look at every dime spent on the kid as an investment in need of a return. Sure, to have saved this much, they must be UMC, but they saved and have it and don't view it that way. We are similar though less affluent. We have one in college and another applying next year. We'll get need based FA from top schools or merit for other schools, will have about 100k saved and will plan to pay some as they go. I do want my kid to have options to support herself, which factored into university choice (cache/networks), but I am not looking at numbers on ROI. Part of higher ed is the ed, not just training to a certain income level.

The main point of college is ROI. Full stop. And that's doubly true for your kids, who aren't wealthy enough to be from a full-pay family.

No it's not. And, it wasn't for me and my parents either. You live in a very small world if you think you have any idea about higher ed. I have both humanities and fine arts degrees from a middle class background. Your view of higher education is extremely limited -- it's education, not just training.

Okay. So what do you suggest a middle class student with a BA in English do besides law school?

They're SOL. No way to save up for a downpayment on a house or pay back student loans (if they have any) with a graduate or undergraduate degree in the humanities (except a JD).

Yep. You are correct. No jobs for them.

Except for the million or so types of jobs that have no corresponding college major and benefit from good communications skills.

There are loads of Humanities majors making bank in tech and other fields. Oh and BTW you clearly don't understand ROI or you would demand all college grads pursue investment banking regardless of major..

Who are these people

Kids who went to University of Phoenix.