Anonymous
08/28/2022 07:12
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.
Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.
Also would we be weighting course evaluations the same across grade levels? Do we let kindergartener's course evaluations have the same weight as Ap math students? How do we do test data for ESOL or music teachers it other staff who don't test students
Anonymous
08/28/2022 06:46
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.
Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.
Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there
+1
Anonymous
08/28/2022 05:42
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.
Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.
Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there
When things are wrong, people need to speak up to change them. Staying silent and accepting bad treatment is why teachers are so undervalued and underpaid. This shortage, the whole topic of this thread, is happening because teachers are doing exactly what you said: leave if you are miserable. They are leaving in droves. There are recommendations throughout this thread about how to counteract that. Since teachers’ valid concerns are seen as toxic and complaining, how far do you think we are going to get in solving this teacher shortage?
Anonymous
08/28/2022 02:38
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The average salary in the us is in the 40s
Teacher salaries are know when people choose the career
Teachers love to complain
The average salary for college-educated people? How about master's degree?
Except an M.Ed isn’t equivalent to an M.S. Compare apples to apples. What do you think the average English major makes?
Career-changer here. My undergrad degree is in science. I have two master’s. Neither is an M.Ed. I really am comparing apples to apples when I note friends with the same degree are earning more for less work. I know because I used to do that, too before I switched to teaching.
Yes, STEM teachers can be underpaid compared to other people with similar educational backgrounds (though, as a career-changer, you’re not a great example of what is typical). But the same isn’t true for, say, English majors and teachers.
Anonymous
08/28/2022 00:42
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The average salary in the us is in the 40s
Teacher salaries are know when people choose the career
Teachers love to complain
The average salary for college-educated people? How about master's degree?
Except an M.Ed isn’t equivalent to an M.S. Compare apples to apples. What do you think the average English major makes?
Well? What are the numbers? Not $40k.
How much does an average college grad make right out of school?
Anonymous
08/28/2022 00:40
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.
Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.
Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there
STFU. You are the toxic person here.
Quality teaching is good for our whole society. Stop driving off teachers because you’re a raging a-hole who gets off on bullying them online.
- parent who supports pay raises and incentives for people to go into teaching
Anonymous
08/28/2022 00:18
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.
Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.
Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there
Did the pp complain about the job? I didn't read it that way. I read an explanation about why your evaluation suggestion wouldn't be acceptable.
Anonymous
08/28/2022 00:09
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
I'll just pick on this part.
Do you ask your kids if they think you are doing a good job parenting?
Do you get a say in your doctor's pay? You could always leave the school and go private, just like you could always pay a concierge doctor for more complete care.
I teach 3-4 year olds. Should they have a say in my pay? Do/did your 3-4 year old tell you if you were a good parent and have say in how you parent?
\
Anonymous
08/27/2022 23:53
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.
Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.
Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there
Keep it up, Sparky. Your kids will enjoy their series of rotating warm body babysitters — oops, I mean “subs.”
Anonymous
08/27/2022 23:51
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:The average salary in the us is in the 40s
Teacher salaries are know when people choose the career
Teachers love to complain
There is a teacher shortage. “40s” is no longer good enough to attract and retain teachers.
Parents love to complain.
Anonymous
08/27/2022 23:05
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.
Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.
Please quit instead of complaining just quit. Why would you stay in a job that makes you so miserable, you are toxic to your colleagues and folks that actually want to be there
Anonymous
08/27/2022 22:56
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
I will absolutely not accept 1/3 test scores, 1/3 evaluations, 1/3 student evaluations. Test scores: how do you account for general ed classes vs. honors classes? Special education? High FARMS rate schools? I once had to take a failing mark on *MY* test data because a student was expelled before the test and wasn’t there to take it. Why should I be held accountable for that? Evaluations: These are ridiculously subjective. All it takes is for a teacher to upset an administrator, and the score goes down. I once lost a ton of points on an eval because a student didn’t have his book on his desk. Why should I lose pay for that? The other 30 students were doing just fine. Student evaluations: I have had to give plenty of failing grades for plagiarized assignments. What type of evaluation do you think I’m going to get from those students? Some teachers are extremely permissive and therefore popular with students. Students may not learn a thing in that class, but the teacher would get high marks.
Accuse me all you want of a “bad whining look.” I’m not going to play the role of the martyr anymore. This job is challenging and this job is important. Frankly, a functioning society depends on it. I don’t care if it looks like teachers are whining. It’s time to stop being doormats.
Anonymous
08/27/2022 22:47
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.
I'm not a teacher but the most effective thing I have seen is 1/3 test scores, 1/3 principal/supervisor Evalution and 1/3 student evaluation.
I agree pay isn't the issue. It's just more of a bad whining look of those in the profession. The salaries are public knowledge, everyone knows what they are before signing up.
I will say the scope/expectations have changed with all the extra paperwork and helicopter parents. That's a legitimate gripe and something you couldn't have predicted.
Anonymous
08/27/2022 22:28
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The average salary in the us is in the 40s
Teacher salaries are know when people choose the career
Teachers love to complain
The average salary for college-educated people? How about master's degree?
Except an M.Ed isn’t equivalent to an M.S. Compare apples to apples. What do you think the average English major makes?
Career-changer here. My undergrad degree is in science. I have two master’s. Neither is an M.Ed. I really am comparing apples to apples when I note friends with the same degree are earning more for less work. I know because I used to do that, too before I switched to teaching.
Anonymous
08/27/2022 22:23
Subject: Re:Why is there a teacher shortage?
Anonymous wrote:Your industry needs to grow up and get with supply and demand
DC pays teachers over 100k within 5-10 years if you are good enough
Sure, but the field has really struggled with figuring out how someone is “good enough.” How do you identify the strong teachers? Is it test scores? How do you address the many variables that affect those? Is it parent reviews? Student feedback? Admin observations? It’s remarkably difficult to quantify “strong teachers.” A lot of teaching is an art. That’s why merely having a certain degree isn’t enough. Can you effectively relay your content knowledge to a child?
Also… DC is also facing shortages. Paying teachers more isn’t enough.