Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but anyway those are the 3 top public schools in nyc. It's not easy to get into them.

A typical grade cohort in NYC is around 60,000, so between Hunter's 200 and BS/Stuy's 750 each we're talking around the top 3% of kids. (maybe a touch more if you throw in HSMSE)

Which is not an *easy* lift, but if your kid is getting the ISEE 8's and 9's needed to interest Trinity or Brearley or HM as an unconnected kid (note that the percentiles on those are relative to other ISEE test takers and not the general population), they can probably also do well enough on the SHSAT or Hunter Test to get into one of those top public schools.

being top 3% is impressive. It's not easy. but i understand your point.

I question if it's that hard to get into these private schools as an unconnected kid. we have 1 in what is considered TT and 1 in 2T. We are not a connected family at all. We are like the thousands of generic "upper middle class" manhattan families - dual income making $500-1mm a year.

it may feel generic, but if you make >$500k/yr in nyc, you are within 3% of the city's top-earning households.

"upper middle class" in quotes.

are you in the top 10% of families in manhattan with 500k?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We turned down one of the top 3 SHSAT schools for a 2T private and know multiple other families that did the same. We only applied to one TT and didn't go through the required butt kissing to get in (we knew families who could have helped but decided it wasn't the right place for our child).

Our child and the other similar ones are top of their classes at the 2Ts and a lot less stressed than if at a TT or SHSAT. Top kids from their schools do just as well as kids from the other schools.

Everyone runs their own raise and makes their own decisions.

my sense is that SHSAT schools are pretty stressful.

what are some 2T schools - is this the Trevor/CGPS/Nightingale type of school? what others?

Stuy isn’t really stressful if your child is competitive and is the top of the class since elementary. If anything they live for the challenge. It is only stressful if you try to turn them into something they are not or expect them to turn it on when they arrive at HS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Outside of the "hooks" which is definitely the case for a portion of the girls - one thing that i believe helps is the smaller class size.

I believe HM has close to 200 kids per grade. the girls schools generally are in the 60-70 range.

It's alot easier for the CC at B/S/C to push for 1-2 girls at a Columbia or Dartmouth versus having to go to the AO and try to pitch 6 different kids trying to get into columbia ED.

If you take out the 10-15 hooked kids at each of these girls schools you are left with 50 kids. the CC are only going to bat for a couple of girls per t30 college. to me i think that has to make an impact.
do you agree?

I am not sure how that would explain why Brearley performs so well in absolute numbers. It actually seems to send more students than HM to Harvard, Princeton, Yale - and Columbia (each!), despite having 1/3 the number of seniors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We turned down one of the top 3 SHSAT schools for a 2T private and know multiple other families that did the same. We only applied to one TT and didn't go through the required butt kissing to get in (we knew families who could have helped but decided it wasn't the right place for our child).

Our child and the other similar ones are top of their classes at the 2Ts and a lot less stressed than if at a TT or SHSAT. Top kids from their schools do just as well as kids from the other schools.

Everyone runs their own raise and makes their own decisions.

my sense is that SHSAT schools are pretty stressful.

what are some 2T schools - is this the Trevor/CGPS/Nightingale type of school? what others?

Anonymous wrote:Outside of the "hooks" which is definitely the case for a portion of the girls - one thing that i believe helps is the smaller class size.

I believe HM has close to 200 kids per grade. the girls schools generally are in the 60-70 range.

It's alot easier for the CC at B/S/C to push for 1-2 girls at a Columbia or Dartmouth versus having to go to the AO and try to pitch 6 different kids trying to get into columbia ED.

If you take out the 10-15 hooked kids at each of these girls schools you are left with 50 kids. the CC are only going to bat for a couple of girls per t30 college. to me i think that has to make an impact.
do you agree?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The view of all these private schools filled with hooked kids is flawed. Some rich families, FGLI, POC, definitely there. But our experience leads us to believe that the number is much lower that the inflated percentage mentioned.

Looking at Spence for this year - 54 girls have public posts - my guess is that's around 85% of the class give or take.
The list is below. Taking out the HYP or bust mentality (which is silly) - it appears to me that 48/54 girls are going to a pretty decent school.

You are very generous with your views of a decent school. The discussion should also consider the alternative of attending a top public school instead. If Cornell and Columbia are easily achievable from public, why would anyone be impressed with Spence’s results.

PP here - you are very generous with you comment of "easily achievable" regarding Columbia and Cornell. I believe Columbia has a sub 5% acceptance rate.

what are some top public schools you are speaking about? The suburban schools like Manhasset, Summit, Rye? Or top city schools like BS, Stuy?

Stuy/BS are excellent free top public schools with very good outcomes - especially across board, including kids getting full rides to schools. It's just a different learning environment. Many of the kids there are impressive.

The suburban schools have okay results but it's extremely competitive. And for many living in the suburbs isn't what they want so it's not a realistic option.

At the end of the day, your child has to get into a school (if not going to the local suburban public school) and you have to decide if the financial cost is worth it to your family to send to a private school. If the Spence (or any other schools) exmissions don't impress you and the education isn't worth spending the $$, then go to the top public school. There are enough people willing to pay to to the TT schools in nyc.

I am referencing Stuy/BS/Hunter. If your family is spending $100k a year on education (tutors, college counselor, extracurricular, etc..) you are going to out resource many families compared to TT private.

I doubt most families are spending an incremental $30k on tutors, CC, EC - i know we are not.

but anyway those are the 3 top public schools in nyc. It's not easy to get into them.

one could argue that it's best to send your kids to one of these schools (assuming they get in) and then spend $25k a year on other items and have a good college outcome. perhaps that is your point.

for us, we didn't feel like those schools would be right for both of our kids. we prefer the smaller class sizes versus the larger grades/classes. one kid would have done fine but we didn't want to do the 1 public 1 private thing.

i am pretty sure that the majority of the kids in those 3 schools would do well academically at a private school.

Private school tuition is ~$70k + fundraising. I am still curious what giving a lot of money at the gala will get you.

We give $2k a year. That won't get us access to the special treatment that is for sure.

Curious - what factors lead you to the decision (assumption on my part) to forgo Private for one of the three top private schools? was it completely value for $$? or something else? was private a realistic option?

for elementary school we made the value for $ decision and decided public was a better choice. Financially it would have been possible but not a easy decision - so that factored into the decision.

we are happy with the path we took.

We are at a private K-8 and figuring out the HS options. Most of my friends and colleagues did public. The traditional pipeline was accelerated G&T -> Hunter/Stuy/BT/BS -> Ivy+.

If we go private for HS it will be about given the child a sweet experience rather than being naive in thinking it about college admissions.

Do many people go from private k-8 to public? We did the citywide G&T to private. The much more common route was G&T to Stuy/BS/hunter.

Anonymous wrote:We turned down one of the top 3 SHSAT schools for a 2T private and know multiple other families that did the same. We only applied to one TT and didn't go through the required butt kissing to get in (we knew families who could have helped but decided it wasn't the right place for our child).

Our child and the other similar ones are top of their classes at the 2Ts and a lot less stressed than if at a TT or SHSAT. Top kids from their schools do just as well as kids from the other schools.

Everyone runs their own raise and makes their own decisions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The view of all these private schools filled with hooked kids is flawed. Some rich families, FGLI, POC, definitely there. But our experience leads us to believe that the number is much lower that the inflated percentage mentioned.

Looking at Spence for this year - 54 girls have public posts - my guess is that's around 85% of the class give or take.
The list is below. Taking out the HYP or bust mentality (which is silly) - it appears to me that 48/54 girls are going to a pretty decent school.

You are very generous with your views of a decent school. The discussion should also consider the alternative of attending a top public school instead. If Cornell and Columbia are easily achievable from public, why would anyone be impressed with Spence’s results.

PP here - you are very generous with you comment of "easily achievable" regarding Columbia and Cornell. I believe Columbia has a sub 5% acceptance rate.

what are some top public schools you are speaking about? The suburban schools like Manhasset, Summit, Rye? Or top city schools like BS, Stuy?

Stuy/BS are excellent free top public schools with very good outcomes - especially across board, including kids getting full rides to schools. It's just a different learning environment. Many of the kids there are impressive.

The suburban schools have okay results but it's extremely competitive. And for many living in the suburbs isn't what they want so it's not a realistic option.

At the end of the day, your child has to get into a school (if not going to the local suburban public school) and you have to decide if the financial cost is worth it to your family to send to a private school. If the Spence (or any other schools) exmissions don't impress you and the education isn't worth spending the $$, then go to the top public school. There are enough people willing to pay to to the TT schools in nyc.

I am referencing Stuy/BS/Hunter. If your family is spending $100k a year on education (tutors, college counselor, extracurricular, etc..) you are going to out resource many families compared to TT private.

I doubt most families are spending an incremental $30k on tutors, CC, EC - i know we are not.

but anyway those are the 3 top public schools in nyc. It's not easy to get into them.

one could argue that it's best to send your kids to one of these schools (assuming they get in) and then spend $25k a year on other items and have a good college outcome. perhaps that is your point.

for us, we didn't feel like those schools would be right for both of our kids. we prefer the smaller class sizes versus the larger grades/classes. one kid would have done fine but we didn't want to do the 1 public 1 private thing.

i am pretty sure that the majority of the kids in those 3 schools would do well academically at a private school.

Private school tuition is ~$70k + fundraising. I am still curious what giving a lot of money at the gala will get you.

We give $2k a year. That won't get us access to the special treatment that is for sure.

Curious - what factors lead you to the decision (assumption on my part) to forgo Private for one of the three top private schools? was it completely value for $$? or something else? was private a realistic option?

for elementary school we made the value for $ decision and decided public was a better choice. Financially it would have been possible but not a easy decision - so that factored into the decision.

we are happy with the path we took.

We are at a private K-8 and figuring out the HS options. Most of my friends and colleagues did public. The traditional pipeline was accelerated G&T -> Hunter/Stuy/BT/BS -> Ivy+.

If we go private for HS it will be about given the child a sweet experience rather than being naive in thinking it about college admissions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but anyway those are the 3 top public schools in nyc. It's not easy to get into them.

A typical grade cohort in NYC is around 60,000, so between Hunter's 200 and BS/Stuy's 750 each we're talking around the top 3% of kids. (maybe a touch more if you throw in HSMSE)

Which is not an *easy* lift, but if your kid is getting the ISEE 8's and 9's needed to interest Trinity or Brearley or HM as an unconnected kid (note that the percentiles on those are relative to other ISEE test takers and not the general population), they can probably also do well enough on the SHSAT or Hunter Test to get into one of those top public schools.

being top 3% is impressive. It's not easy. but i understand your point.

I question if it's that hard to get into these private schools as an unconnected kid. we have 1 in what is considered TT and 1 in 2T. We are not a connected family at all. We are like the thousands of generic "upper middle class" manhattan families - dual income making $500-1mm a year.

it may feel generic, but if you make >$500k/yr in nyc, you are within 3% of the city's top-earning households.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The view of all these private schools filled with hooked kids is flawed. Some rich families, FGLI, POC, definitely there. But our experience leads us to believe that the number is much lower that the inflated percentage mentioned.

Looking at Spence for this year - 54 girls have public posts - my guess is that's around 85% of the class give or take.
The list is below. Taking out the HYP or bust mentality (which is silly) - it appears to me that 48/54 girls are going to a pretty decent school.

You are very generous with your views of a decent school. The discussion should also consider the alternative of attending a top public school instead. If Cornell and Columbia are easily achievable from public, why would anyone be impressed with Spence’s results.

PP here - you are very generous with you comment of "easily achievable" regarding Columbia and Cornell. I believe Columbia has a sub 5% acceptance rate.

what are some top public schools you are speaking about? The suburban schools like Manhasset, Summit, Rye? Or top city schools like BS, Stuy?

Stuy/BS are excellent free top public schools with very good outcomes - especially across board, including kids getting full rides to schools. It's just a different learning environment. Many of the kids there are impressive.

The suburban schools have okay results but it's extremely competitive. And for many living in the suburbs isn't what they want so it's not a realistic option.

At the end of the day, your child has to get into a school (if not going to the local suburban public school) and you have to decide if the financial cost is worth it to your family to send to a private school. If the Spence (or any other schools) exmissions don't impress you and the education isn't worth spending the $$, then go to the top public school. There are enough people willing to pay to to the TT schools in nyc.

I am referencing Stuy/BS/Hunter. If your family is spending $100k a year on education (tutors, college counselor, extracurricular, etc..) you are going to out resource many families compared to TT private.

I doubt most families are spending an incremental $30k on tutors, CC, EC - i know we are not.

but anyway those are the 3 top public schools in nyc. It's not easy to get into them.

one could argue that it's best to send your kids to one of these schools (assuming they get in) and then spend $25k a year on other items and have a good college outcome. perhaps that is your point.

for us, we didn't feel like those schools would be right for both of our kids. we prefer the smaller class sizes versus the larger grades/classes. one kid would have done fine but we didn't want to do the 1 public 1 private thing.

i am pretty sure that the majority of the kids in those 3 schools would do well academically at a private school.

Private school tuition is ~$70k + fundraising. I am still curious what giving a lot of money at the gala will get you.

We give $2k a year. That won't get us access to the special treatment that is for sure.

Curious - what factors lead you to the decision (assumption on my part) to forgo Private for one of the three top private schools? was it completely value for $$? or something else? was private a realistic option?

for elementary school we made the value for $ decision and decided public was a better choice. Financially it would have been possible but not a easy decision - so that factored into the decision.

we are happy with the path we took.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
do you believe the outcomes at HM are not good?

they have more dispersion and less heavy on the HYPS cohort but in general it's a very good list.

could it be that the academics are so tough that the kids have less time for EC and that hurts them in the admission process? that could be one reason.

The outcomes at HM are generally excellent!

I am not making a value judgement here, but if we use some sort of a metric based on college ranking and exclusivity, Brearley outperforms (again, how useful this metric is is a different matter, for me personally not very, but it doesn't mean it's meaningless). E.g. I think it's fair to say that ED2 to Chicago is a common -- and considerably more attainable -- 2nd option for people applying REA to HYP (and Chicago is an excellent school and particularly not inferior to HYP in economics which is what the majority of HM matriculations are in).

RE: ECs -- I don't think that's it. Brearley is also pretty tough academically and HM has a bigger culture of sport teams and more clubs, top-notch theater production company, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but anyway those are the 3 top public schools in nyc. It's not easy to get into them.

A typical grade cohort in NYC is around 60,000, so between Hunter's 200 and BS/Stuy's 750 each we're talking around the top 3% of kids. (maybe a touch more if you throw in HSMSE)

Which is not an *easy* lift, but if your kid is getting the ISEE 8's and 9's needed to interest Trinity or Brearley or HM as an unconnected kid (note that the percentiles on those are relative to other ISEE test takers and not the general population), they can probably also do well enough on the SHSAT or Hunter Test to get into one of those top public schools.

being top 3% is impressive. It's not easy. but i understand your point.

I question if it's that hard to get into these private schools as an unconnected kid. we have 1 in what is considered TT and 1 in 2T. We are not a connected family at all. We are like the thousands of generic "upper middle class" manhattan families - dual income making $500-1mm a year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but anyway those are the 3 top public schools in nyc. It's not easy to get into them.

A typical grade cohort in NYC is around 60,000, so between Hunter's 200 and BS/Stuy's 750 each we're talking around the top 3% of kids. (maybe a touch more if you throw in HSMSE)

Which is not an *easy* lift, but if your kid is getting the ISEE 8's and 9's needed to interest Trinity or Brearley or HM as an unconnected kid (note that the percentiles on those are relative to other ISEE test takers and not the general population), they can probably also do well enough on the SHSAT or Hunter Test to get into one of those top public schools.

Anonymous wrote:Which is not an *easy* lift, but if your kid is getting the ISEE 8's and 9's needed to interest Trinity or Brearley or HM as an unconnected kid (note that the percentiles on those are relative to other ISEE test takers and not the general population), they can probably also do well enough on the SHSAT or Hunter Test to get into one of those top public schools.