Anonymous wrote:Just read through this thread as I used to swim (but my kids do not) so many posts brought back memories of my summers from many, many years ago.

I am in a way relieved to hear of all the drama these days with summer swim, club level swim, etc. My kids play soccer competitively and I often wish that they had gotten into more "objective" sports where the decision for advancement is not based on a coach's subjective observation but an objective measure like a clock. It is almost a relief to hear that even in a time-based sport like swimming the parent drama exists!

My kids do soccer and swim. I find soccer less stressful. The way they evaluate players is definitely more ambiguous, but my oldest seems to come out on the good side of that at least for now. He is a hard worker, unselfish, and really hustles on defense so I think that those things work in his favor as opposed to a kid with an ego always asking to play up front. And in a team sport there is at least some appreciation that they all have different roles to play and that they have to play as a team to succeed. Not too many politics yet, maybe we have been lucky.

The way summer swim is done here really does pit friends against each other, and certain parents egg it on. I get very annoyed when I hear my friend’s kid talking smack to mine and hearing their parents try to motivate them to specifically beat my kid in races. I tell my kids it’s about doing your own best times and however that plays out in the ladder is what it is. The A meet/B meet structure creates a haves vs. have nots dynamic that goes against the message that summer swim is for fun. And sending out the ladder is nice for transparency but bad for parents who obsess over everyone else’s times. I loved summer swim as a kid but as a parents it’s kind of a love/hate.

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Anonymous wrote:I overheard a parent at practice talking last night about his 10 year old and how basically his kid was the next Olympian. That their club team needed to be good with them not being able to attend club practices since she love summer swim practices. Also apparently not meeting club attendance requirements during the year due to other sports. That they need to deal with it because they needed her because she can make JOs and if they don't like her lack of commitment NCAP would kill to have her.

It was honestly kind of shocking and insane. The tone was crazy. I think the parents he was talking to were just floored by the hubris.

The kid is 10. Lot of kids make JOs at that age and then drop by 14 or 15, it means nothing. I feel sorry for their club and summer coaches.

Not arguing with your point, because I agree about the fall off, but to the kid at age 10, it means so much. Let’s stop denigrating the hard work young swimmers do — and the meets they make/accolades they get — when they are young just because it may not/does not equate to the same level of success when they go through puberty. This is especially true for those of us with Asian or part-Asian children. Lots of earned success in 12U, but puberty often is not kind to swimmers
who have Asian genes.

Puberty is not kind to Asians??? 😂😂😂😂 please!!

DP. I assume they mean that a lot of Asian kids won’t end up being tall. Which is true. A tall kid who is talented and works hard will have an advantage.

the average height of male Olympic swimming finalists in 2016 was 6'2".

Chinese elite swimmers tend to be tall, with many around or above 6 feet (183 cm). For example, Sun Yang is 1.98m (6'6"), Qin Haiyang is 1.92m (6'4"), and Pan Zhanle is 189.5 cm (6'2.6"). Zhang Yufei is 1.76m (5'9").

Maybe non-tall white people don’t focus at all in swimming, whereas Asians do.

No need to cry victim of puberty.

I’m the poster you’re responding to and I agree with this. We all have to accept that our height may open some doors while closing others. I loved gymnastics in early ES and was working on some fairly advanced skills. But that dream died when I hit 5’4” in like 4th grade. I ended up very tall and swimming worked out well. But man I loved gymnastics!

5'4 in 4th grade? really?

Yep! 5’9” by end of 8th grade and 5’10” when I got my learners’ permit. Topped out at 6’. I was off the charts tall literally from birth and I still get asked today if I played volleyball. I guess I have that build now that the swimmer shoulders are gone.

Anonymous wrote:Day 1 of summer swim practice and I am already sick of the odd competitiveness that crops up with some normally laid back parents. One woman in particular does not hide that she sees my DD as her child's competition for A meets. These kids are 8. How am I going to deal with a summer of this?

I do not miss my days of summer swimming...it was great because my kids became strong swimmers and there def some fun spirit related activities. It was the parents because your child is literally also competing agains teammates. The good thing is the times don't lie so it is probably a little less complicated that other team sports.

Just read through this thread as I used to swim (but my kids do not) so many posts brought back memories of my summers from many, many years ago.

I am in a way relieved to hear of all the drama these days with summer swim, club level swim, etc. My kids play soccer competitively and I often wish that they had gotten into more "objective" sports where the decision for advancement is not based on a coach's subjective observation but an objective measure like a clock. It is almost a relief to hear that even in a time-based sport like swimming the parent drama exists!

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Anonymous wrote:When do the b meet heat sheets usually get sent out? First year swim team kid and trying to map out when I’ll get home tomorrow

lol, you sweet summer child. How big is your team and how big is the other team? We can give you a sense based on that but you’re not gonna get a meet sheet for a B meet ☠️

Our team sends out the B meet heat sheet Sunday night or Monday noon. We run B meets just like A meets. We have 220 swimmers.

Same as ⬆️. We receive heat sheets Sunday or Monday. We are in NVSL, but **for the 28th time, B meets in NVSL are not NVSL-sanctioned meets. They are meets between NVSL teams governed by whatever rules those teams make.** Our team is in the Burke-Springfield developmental league. It does meet/heat sheets and runs meets just like A meets + IM.

Woodson B meet league did not do heat sheets. I did clerk of course for years. You got what you got in terms of your heat, because by about 4 events in I didn't have time to try and seed you properly any more.

I’m so suprised by this! The last time I saw a meet without heat sheets was literally when I was an 8&u swimmer in 1987, and there was only one pool I swam at that was still doing it that way. It does explain why people talk about clerk being such a big volunteer job- now I understand. Thank you to the volunteers at those pools for not just throwing all the cards into the pool and driving away. I wouldn’t blame you if you did.

Our B meet group doesn’t do heat sheets. It’s so painful. I’ve been advocating for years with no luck. Meets for 100 swimmers run 3 plus hours and many empty lanes. Plus kids jockey to put themselves in heats and lanes they don’t belong in. It’s a mess.

Yeah, especially in the rain - wet soggy cards, lost cards, etc.

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Anonymous wrote:When do the b meet heat sheets usually get sent out? First year swim team kid and trying to map out when I’ll get home tomorrow

lol, you sweet summer child. How big is your team and how big is the other team? We can give you a sense based on that but you’re not gonna get a meet sheet for a B meet ☠️

Our team sends out the B meet heat sheet Sunday night or Monday noon. We run B meets just like A meets. We have 220 swimmers.

Same as ⬆️. We receive heat sheets Sunday or Monday. We are in NVSL, but **for the 28th time, B meets in NVSL are not NVSL-sanctioned meets. They are meets between NVSL teams governed by whatever rules those teams make.** Our team is in the Burke-Springfield developmental league. It does meet/heat sheets and runs meets just like A meets + IM.

Woodson B meet league did not do heat sheets. I did clerk of course for years. You got what you got in terms of your heat, because by about 4 events in I didn't have time to try and seed you properly any more.

I’m so suprised by this! The last time I saw a meet without heat sheets was literally when I was an 8&u swimmer in 1987, and there was only one pool I swam at that was still doing it that way. It does explain why people talk about clerk being such a big volunteer job- now I understand. Thank you to the volunteers at those pools for not just throwing all the cards into the pool and driving away. I wouldn’t blame you if you did.

Our B meet group doesn’t do heat sheets. It’s so painful. I’ve been advocating for years with no luck. Meets for 100 swimmers run 3 plus hours and many empty lanes. Plus kids jockey to put themselves in heats and lanes they don’t belong in. It’s a mess.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I overheard a parent at practice talking last night about his 10 year old and how basically his kid was the next Olympian. That their club team needed to be good with them not being able to attend club practices since she love summer swim practices. Also apparently not meeting club attendance requirements during the year due to other sports. That they need to deal with it because they needed her because she can make JOs and if they don't like her lack of commitment NCAP would kill to have her.

It was honestly kind of shocking and insane. The tone was crazy. I think the parents he was talking to were just floored by the hubris.

The kid is 10. Lot of kids make JOs at that age and then drop by 14 or 15, it means nothing. I feel sorry for their club and summer coaches.

Not arguing with your point, because I agree about the fall off, but to the kid at age 10, it means so much. Let’s stop denigrating the hard work young swimmers do — and the meets they make/accolades they get — when they are young just because it may not/does not equate to the same level of success when they go through puberty. This is especially true for those of us with Asian or part-Asian children. Lots of earned success in 12U, but puberty often is not kind to swimmers
who have Asian genes.

Puberty is not kind to Asians??? 😂😂😂😂 please!!

DP. I assume they mean that a lot of Asian kids won’t end up being tall. Which is true. A tall kid who is talented and works hard will have an advantage.

the average height of male Olympic swimming finalists in 2016 was 6'2".

Chinese elite swimmers tend to be tall, with many around or above 6 feet (183 cm). For example, Sun Yang is 1.98m (6'6"), Qin Haiyang is 1.92m (6'4"), and Pan Zhanle is 189.5 cm (6'2.6"). Zhang Yufei is 1.76m (5'9").

Maybe non-tall white people don’t focus at all in swimming, whereas Asians do.

No need to cry victim of puberty.

I’m the poster you’re responding to and I agree with this. We all have to accept that our height may open some doors while closing others. I loved gymnastics in early ES and was working on some fairly advanced skills. But that dream died when I hit 5’4” in like 4th grade. I ended up very tall and swimming worked out well. But man I loved gymnastics!

5'4 in 4th grade? really?

Happens for sure. My guy is 5'2 and about to be in 3rd.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I overheard a parent at practice talking last night about his 10 year old and how basically his kid was the next Olympian. That their club team needed to be good with them not being able to attend club practices since she love summer swim practices. Also apparently not meeting club attendance requirements during the year due to other sports. That they need to deal with it because they needed her because she can make JOs and if they don't like her lack of commitment NCAP would kill to have her.

It was honestly kind of shocking and insane. The tone was crazy. I think the parents he was talking to were just floored by the hubris.

The kid is 10. Lot of kids make JOs at that age and then drop by 14 or 15, it means nothing. I feel sorry for their club and summer coaches.

Not arguing with your point, because I agree about the fall off, but to the kid at age 10, it means so much. Let’s stop denigrating the hard work young swimmers do — and the meets they make/accolades they get — when they are young just because it may not/does not equate to the same level of success when they go through puberty. This is especially true for those of us with Asian or part-Asian children. Lots of earned success in 12U, but puberty often is not kind to swimmers
who have Asian genes.

Puberty is not kind to Asians??? 😂😂😂😂 please!!

DP. I assume they mean that a lot of Asian kids won’t end up being tall. Which is true. A tall kid who is talented and works hard will have an advantage.

the average height of male Olympic swimming finalists in 2016 was 6'2".

Chinese elite swimmers tend to be tall, with many around or above 6 feet (183 cm). For example, Sun Yang is 1.98m (6'6"), Qin Haiyang is 1.92m (6'4"), and Pan Zhanle is 189.5 cm (6'2.6"). Zhang Yufei is 1.76m (5'9").

Maybe non-tall white people don’t focus at all in swimming, whereas Asians do.

No need to cry victim of puberty.

I’m the poster you’re responding to and I agree with this. We all have to accept that our height may open some doors while closing others. I loved gymnastics in early ES and was working on some fairly advanced skills. But that dream died when I hit 5’4” in like 4th grade. I ended up very tall and swimming worked out well. But man I loved gymnastics!

5'4 in 4th grade? really?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:When do the b meet heat sheets usually get sent out? First year swim team kid and trying to map out when I’ll get home tomorrow

lol, you sweet summer child. How big is your team and how big is the other team? We can give you a sense based on that but you’re not gonna get a meet sheet for a B meet ☠️

Our team sends out the B meet heat sheet Sunday night or Monday noon. We run B meets just like A meets. We have 220 swimmers.

Same as ⬆️. We receive heat sheets Sunday or Monday. We are in NVSL, but **for the 28th time, B meets in NVSL are not NVSL-sanctioned meets. They are meets between NVSL teams governed by whatever rules those teams make.** Our team is in the Burke-Springfield developmental league. It does meet/heat sheets and runs meets just like A meets + IM.

Woodson B meet league did not do heat sheets. I did clerk of course for years. You got what you got in terms of your heat, because by about 4 events in I didn't have time to try and seed you properly any more.

I’m so suprised by this! The last time I saw a meet without heat sheets was literally when I was an 8&u swimmer in 1987, and there was only one pool I swam at that was still doing it that way. It does explain why people talk about clerk being such a big volunteer job- now I understand. Thank you to the volunteers at those pools for not just throwing all the cards into the pool and driving away. I wouldn’t blame you if you did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When do the b meet heat sheets usually get sent out? First year swim team kid and trying to map out when I’ll get home tomorrow

lol, you sweet summer child. How big is your team and how big is the other team? We can give you a sense based on that but you’re not gonna get a meet sheet for a B meet ☠️

Our team sends out the B meet heat sheet Sunday night or Monday noon. We run B meets just like A meets. We have 220 swimmers.

Same as ⬆️. We receive heat sheets Sunday or Monday. We are in NVSL, but **for the 28th time, B meets in NVSL are not NVSL-sanctioned meets. They are meets between NVSL teams governed by whatever rules those teams make.** Our team is in the Burke-Springfield developmental league. It does meet/heat sheets and runs meets just like A meets + IM.

Woodson B meet league did not do heat sheets. I did clerk of course for years. You got what you got in terms of your heat, because by about 4 events in I didn't have time to try and seed you properly any more.

In 9 years of having a kid in MCSL, every single B meet our team has swum has had heat sheets.

Anonymous wrote:Following up - an email went out last night saying heat sheets are coming this afternoon. Hooray! We are in NVSL if it makes a difference, in the Fairfax area.

We have been doing heat sheets for years. And sometimes it just takes some talking to get our partners to understand how it works and the benefits. I will say that for two years in a row, we tried to get one of our partner to merge the meet and do heat sheets and they just flat out refused. We no longer partner with them for meets.

Once you can speed up a meet and have it organized it is impossible to go back to having clerk of course throwing swimmers in lanes and wet cards.

Following up - an email went out last night saying heat sheets are coming this afternoon. Hooray! We are in NVSL if it makes a difference, in the Fairfax area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When do the b meet heat sheets usually get sent out? First year swim team kid and trying to map out when I’ll get home tomorrow

lol, you sweet summer child. How big is your team and how big is the other team? We can give you a sense based on that but you’re not gonna get a meet sheet for a B meet ☠️

Our team sends out the B meet heat sheet Sunday night or Monday noon. We run B meets just like A meets. We have 220 swimmers.

Same as ⬆️. We receive heat sheets Sunday or Monday. We are in NVSL, but **for the 28th time, B meets in NVSL are not NVSL-sanctioned meets. They are meets between NVSL teams governed by whatever rules those teams make.** Our team is in the Burke-Springfield developmental league. It does meet/heat sheets and runs meets just like A meets + IM.

I definitely understand the * part (it is the same with MCSL, too). And I also completely understand that MCSL is less populous than NVSL, although neither one is a small organization. I just can't get my head around how anyone would prefer to run a B meet _without_ automation and heat sheets, no matter how they chose to seed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When do the b meet heat sheets usually get sent out? First year swim team kid and trying to map out when I’ll get home tomorrow

lol, you sweet summer child. How big is your team and how big is the other team? We can give you a sense based on that but you’re not gonna get a meet sheet for a B meet ☠️

Our team sends out the B meet heat sheet Sunday night or Monday noon. We run B meets just like A meets. We have 220 swimmers.

Same as ⬆️. We receive heat sheets Sunday or Monday. We are in NVSL, but **for the 28th time, B meets in NVSL are not NVSL-sanctioned meets. They are meets between NVSL teams governed by whatever rules those teams make.** Our team is in the Burke-Springfield developmental league. It does meet/heat sheets and runs meets just like A meets + IM.