Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amen! I am a SAHM and I am tired of other working women looking condescendingly down on me like I am chump for staying home and tying my future to my husband. No, madam, you are in fact the chump because you have signed yourself up for two full time jobs! No thank you. I like a life balance and if I have to be a SAHM to get it, so be it. I’d be doing the work at home either way even though my spouse is incredibly sweet and supportive, he just cannot do what I can.

Sounds like you are a chump. Some of us found husbands who are truly equal at home. Mine earns close to a million, 3x my salary and more hours than me, and we are 50-50 at home (with plenty of help) and happy with it. Even when I offer to give him more free time, he says no he wants to spend the time with us.

“With plenty of help” is the key here. Most don’t have this luxury. We all know 50-50 is easy when one person takes out the trash and the other brings in the mail, Antoinette.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's behind a paywall.

I just know I'm one of four millennial siblings and the only one to have kids. I supposed there's still time for my siblings to change their minds, but not much as they are approaching 40, and they are all pretty resolved not to have kids.

It's the local paper. Buy a subscription.

But yes, I think people will be facing population collapse in many areas around the world. I don't know what it will look like but I'm scared for my poor kids.

I don’t need a subscription to the wapo to know that your poor kids will be in exactly like the PP you are criticizing; unable to afford the local paper.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's really about the expectations for parenting. You can't have kids and keep living your pre-kids life without being branded a bad parent. As soon as you have kids, your life becomes kid-centric with playgroups, music classes, sports practices, and on and on. If you aren't interested in this shift, then you don't have kids. In prior generations, people just ignored their kids and went on with their adult lives.

And those kids ended up being far more capable, independent adults. What Parenting has become isn’t good for parents or kids.

This is so true - what parenting has become is crazy for the parents and so bad for the kids. You do NOT have to play with your kids playdate. It IS okay to let them do things without a monitor, or have thoughts or conversations that you don't know about. Our next generations are already basket cases because of bad genes and bad parenting.

+100000. Modern parenting where parents give up their identity to raise kids is not doing the kids any favors.

Yes because the identity of Katelyn in accounting is so much more interesting and meaningful.

That’s just the kind of attitude that’s the problem. Yes, Katelyn’s life matters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's really about the expectations for parenting. You can't have kids and keep living your pre-kids life without being branded a bad parent. As soon as you have kids, your life becomes kid-centric with playgroups, music classes, sports practices, and on and on. If you aren't interested in this shift, then you don't have kids. In prior generations, people just ignored their kids and went on with their adult lives.

And those kids ended up being far more capable, independent adults. What Parenting has become isn’t good for parents or kids.

This is so true - what parenting has become is crazy for the parents and so bad for the kids. You do NOT have to play with your kids playdate. It IS okay to let them do things without a monitor, or have thoughts or conversations that you don't know about. Our next generations are already basket cases because of bad genes and bad parenting.

+100000. Modern parenting where parents give up their identity to raise kids is not doing the kids any favors.

You think that only pertains to "modern parenting"? have you done any historical reading at all? on womens issues?

I do. I have read how modern women spend more time with their kids than at any point in history.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's really about the expectations for parenting. You can't have kids and keep living your pre-kids life without being branded a bad parent. As soon as you have kids, your life becomes kid-centric with playgroups, music classes, sports practices, and on and on. If you aren't interested in this shift, then you don't have kids. In prior generations, people just ignored their kids and went on with their adult lives.

And those kids ended up being far more capable, independent adults. What Parenting has become isn’t good for parents or kids.

This is so true - what parenting has become is crazy for the parents and so bad for the kids. You do NOT have to play with your kids playdate. It IS okay to let them do things without a monitor, or have thoughts or conversations that you don't know about. Our next generations are already basket cases because of bad genes and bad parenting.

+100000. Modern parenting where parents give up their identity to raise kids is not doing the kids any favors.

You think that only pertains to "modern parenting"? have you done any historical reading at all? on womens issues?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amen! I am a SAHM and I am tired of other working women looking condescendingly down on me like I am chump for staying home and tying my future to my husband. No, madam, you are in fact the chump because you have signed yourself up for two full time jobs! No thank you. I like a life balance and if I have to be a SAHM to get it, so be it. I’d be doing the work at home either way even though my spouse is incredibly sweet and supportive, he just cannot do what I can.

Sounds like you are a chump. Some of us found husbands who are truly equal at home. Mine earns close to a million, 3x my salary and more hours than me, and we are 50-50 at home (with plenty of help) and happy with it. Even when I offer to give him more free time, he says no he wants to spend the time with us.

You're an outlier, your husband is an outlier. Or you're making it up.

Women cannot make decisions about their life based on the chances of marrying a guy who makes "close to a million" and is 50-50 at home. This is not a possibility for 99.99999% of women and trying to dole out advice based on that scenario is no different than telling women that "someday your prince will come." It is a fair tale.

In the real world, most men make average salaries and either don't pull their weight at home or try and can't because of long hours. Most families can't afford to outsource all the unpleasant tasks so that they just have to split the most appealing aspects of parenting. Your experience is completely irrelevant to this conversation and actually detrimental to helping women come up with practical solutions to the second-shift problem.

My husband’s salary in relation to his working hours does indeed make him an outlier. However, in my experience, most men with working wives respect their wives and want them to be happy, which means they do close to 50-50 (after adjusting for commute and working hours) because they know their wives will be unhappy if the division of labor is lopsided. That does not mean they share every task. The spouse with the shorter commute or WFH flexibility may do weekday pick-ups and drop-offs and meal prep/batch cooking on the weekends, while the other spouse runs the kids to activities on weekends (to facilitate aforementioned meal prep) and handles all dishes and nightly tidy-up.

Heck, my Boomer father got us ready for school every single day because my mother (who was worked FT) liked to sleep in a bit. And he did the dishes every night so she could relax after cooking dinner. He respected her education and work ethic.

Again, outliers! My Boomer dad did NOTHING parenting related. He thought his only job as a parent was to yell or punish if a kid acted up. My mom did everything. She was a SAHM and then went back to school and went back to work but as a nurse, and my dad never viewed that as a "real" job. She also did stuff like take in ironing and or teach classes in the evening just to bring in extra money. Again, no respect for this, and certainly no help from my dad with kids or the household. He didn't even mow the lawn, he made me or my brothers do it. I think sometimes he changed the oil on the car.

My DH's parents both worked and his mom (teacher) actually had the much more stable and lucrative job. But same dynamic -- his dad viewed himself as a disciplinarian and advice-giver, but he didn't clean or help kids get ready or do anything school-related. I did cook once a week, and my DH actually loves cooking and that's the one area where we are truly 50-50 or even 60-40 with him doing more.

My DH Is very well intentioned and does WAY more than either of our fathers did in terms of childcare. But it's still not 50-50. It's probably about 70-30. And to be honest, most people I know look at us and think "well that's pretty good." I absolutely know millennial women who are married to guys who do nothing or close to it, just like our dads did. The fact that my DH actually attempt for equity is a huge step in the right direction.

But he still pulls all kinds of shenanigans to get out of doing things (he'll hide in the bathroom in the morning to avoid helping with breakfast or getting ready for school, he will busy himself with pointless projects no one wants in order to avoid having to clean, he will do the last step of a task I did 90% of in order to claim 50% credit, etc.). I don't think he does this stuff maliciously or even, usually, consciously. I think that he, like a lot of millennial men, grew up in a house where his dad did almost nothing, and he feels pretty good about doing more than nothing, but childcare and housework are often hard and unpleasant and some part of him will always be trying to shirk a little bit.

And this is most men I know. I was out recently with two friends, one who is also married with kids and one who is single and childless. And the other married friend and I were talking about how the shift to WFH has sucked because our husbands make a bigger mess at home now that they are there more, but still don't clean pretty much at all, so it just manufactures more work for us in order to have a halfway decent house. We were laughing because we discovered we have the same issue, which is that both of our DHs eat at their desks and get crumbs and food all over the floor near their workspace, something that was never an issue pre-WFH, but absolutely refuse to recognize it's happening and think we're weird/crazy for thinking those crumbs should be picked up daily. Our husbands think the crumbs should just be left there until they become so disgusting they have no choice but to clean them up. We have both had ant problems in the last year.

Our single friend was shocked. She thinks of our husbands as so evolved, like we got the good guys. And the thing is -- we did. Our DHs are actually pretty with it. They do solo childcare regularly, they do stuff like wash dishes and do laundry, they are respectful of our careers, etc. But I mean, look at that. The bar is so low. People are still impressed with a father who takes care of his children on his own without help. Jfc. Imagine anyone being impressed with a woman for providing childcare to her own children without assistance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's really about the expectations for parenting. You can't have kids and keep living your pre-kids life without being branded a bad parent. As soon as you have kids, your life becomes kid-centric with playgroups, music classes, sports practices, and on and on. If you aren't interested in this shift, then you don't have kids. In prior generations, people just ignored their kids and went on with their adult lives.

And those kids ended up being far more capable, independent adults. What Parenting has become isn’t good for parents or kids.

This is so true - what parenting has become is crazy for the parents and so bad for the kids. You do NOT have to play with your kids playdate. It IS okay to let them do things without a monitor, or have thoughts or conversations that you don't know about. Our next generations are already basket cases because of bad genes and bad parenting.

+100000. Modern parenting where parents give up their identity to raise kids is not doing the kids any favors.

Yes because the identity of Katelyn in accounting is so much more interesting and meaningful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop looking for perfect anything - perfect partner, perfect time to have kids, perfect spacing between them etc etc
The rules should be:
-find a husband with a degree in science or math or anything to do with numbers, not just a blah blah (humanities) degree. Find them in college if possible
- have kids at 25+
- if this is impossible, have kids by 35 by any decent man around. Just someone who isn’t a deadbeat.

We are like balloons, too far removed from common sense

And please - for the love of all that’s holy - DO NOT have kids if either parent has a mental disorder.

So that disqualified nearly everyone

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amen! I am a SAHM and I am tired of other working women looking condescendingly down on me like I am chump for staying home and tying my future to my husband. No, madam, you are in fact the chump because you have signed yourself up for two full time jobs! No thank you. I like a life balance and if I have to be a SAHM to get it, so be it. I’d be doing the work at home either way even though my spouse is incredibly sweet and supportive, he just cannot do what I can.

Sounds like you are a chump. Some of us found husbands who are truly equal at home. Mine earns close to a million, 3x my salary and more hours than me, and we are 50-50 at home (with plenty of help) and happy with it. Even when I offer to give him more free time, he says no he wants to spend the time with us.

You're an outlier, your husband is an outlier. Or you're making it up.

Women cannot make decisions about their life based on the chances of marrying a guy who makes "close to a million" and is 50-50 at home. This is not a possibility for 99.99999% of women and trying to dole out advice based on that scenario is no different than telling women that "someday your prince will come." It is a fair tale.

In the real world, most men make average salaries and either don't pull their weight at home or try and can't because of long hours. Most families can't afford to outsource all the unpleasant tasks so that they just have to split the most appealing aspects of parenting. Your experience is completely irrelevant to this conversation and actually detrimental to helping women come up with practical solutions to the second-shift problem.

My husband’s salary in relation to his working hours does indeed make him an outlier. However, in my experience, most men with working wives respect their wives and want them to be happy, which means they do close to 50-50 (after adjusting for commute and working hours) because they know their wives will be unhappy if the division of labor is lopsided. That does not mean they share every task. The spouse with the shorter commute or WFH flexibility may do weekday pick-ups and drop-offs and meal prep/batch cooking on the weekends, while the other spouse runs the kids to activities on weekends (to facilitate aforementioned meal prep) and handles all dishes and nightly tidy-up.

Heck, my Boomer father got us ready for school every single day because my mother (who was worked FT) liked to sleep in a bit. And he did the dishes every night so she could relax after cooking dinner. He respected her education and work ethic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop looking for perfect anything - perfect partner, perfect time to have kids, perfect spacing between them etc etc
The rules should be:
-find a husband with a degree in science or math or anything to do with numbers, not just a blah blah (humanities) degree. Find them in college if possible
- have kids at 25+
- if this is impossible, have kids by 35 by any decent man around. Just someone who isn’t a deadbeat.

We are like balloons, too far removed from common sense

And please - for the love of all that’s holy - DO NOT have kids if either parent has a mental disorder.

Sometimes it’s hard to tell.
However if you know that your partner is diagnosed… I agree it’s best to bow out

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Struck a nerve? Is it because you are white, progressive, and mentally ill?

You were wrong again, BTW:

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/2021/04/15/pew_young_liberal_white_women_suffer_mental_health_issues_772771.html#!

Again is it because liberal learning people tend to have less stigma around therapy or more disposable income to use for therapy? Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Struck a nerve? Is it because you are white, progressive, and mentally ill?

You were wrong again, BTW:

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/2021/04/15/pew_young_liberal_white_women_suffer_mental_health_issues_772771.html#!

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop looking for perfect anything - perfect partner, perfect time to have kids, perfect spacing between them etc etc
The rules should be:
-find a husband with a degree in science or math or anything to do with numbers, not just a blah blah (humanities) degree. Find them in college if possible
- have kids at 25+
- if this is impossible, have kids by 35 by any decent man around. Just someone who isn’t a deadbeat.

We are like balloons, too far removed from common sense

And please - for the love of all that’s holy - DO NOT have kids if either parent has a mental disorder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most liberal women under 40 have a mental illness / mental disease, according to Pew.

This fact may help explain their reluctance to have children.

Link, please.

Google it.

You can’t provide a link because you made that up.

Except, I did not make it up. See the responses on the same page.

Or google it.

Here’s a clue: the study was conducted by the Pew foundation. Ever hear of them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's really about the expectations for parenting. You can't have kids and keep living your pre-kids life without being branded a bad parent. As soon as you have kids, your life becomes kid-centric with playgroups, music classes, sports practices, and on and on. If you aren't interested in this shift, then you don't have kids. In prior generations, people just ignored their kids and went on with their adult lives.

And those kids ended up being far more capable, independent adults. What Parenting has become isn’t good for parents or kids.

This is so true - what parenting has become is crazy for the parents and so bad for the kids. You do NOT have to play with your kids playdate. It IS okay to let them do things without a monitor, or have thoughts or conversations that you don't know about. Our next generations are already basket cases because of bad genes and bad parenting.

+100000. Modern parenting where parents give up their identity to raise kids is not doing the kids any favors.