20:08 again. I didn't include ESOL rates because there might be some overlap with the FARMS numbers and I'd be accused (natch) of cheating. The ESOL rates are available at the same link. Assuming the overlap between FARMS and ESOL isn't 100%, this would increase the difference between the Richard Montgomery or Wooton (or other public HS) student body and the Sidwell student body.

If you want facts, you can look up FARMS rates at MoCo high schools here: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04406.pdf. Here are stats for some of the "richest" MoCo high schools mentioned earlier:

BCC 11% FARMS, 9.3% special ed,
Walter Johnson 7.8% FARMS, 11.7% special ed
Churchill <5% FARMs, 11.2% special ed
Whitman <5% FARMs, 11.9% special ed
Richard Montgomery 20.6% FARMS, 7.7% special ed
Wootton 5.5% FARMs, 7.5 special ed
(You don't want to even ask about the downcounty schools, trust me)

Another important fact to keep in mind: the FARMS income cutoff is LOW. This source (http://febp.newamerica.net/background-analysis/federal-school-nutrition-programs) says the federal subsidized lunch program cutoff is 130% of the poverty line, or $21,000 for a family of four.

So between FARMS and special ed programs, maybe 13-20% of kids at the "richest" public high schools we've been discussing are either (a) very poor or (b) on special ed. And certainly many more kids in these 6 "richest" public high schools have family incomes just above $21,000 but below $50,000.

It's truly difficult to understand how you could expect identical percents of a Sidwell graduating class, and a graduating class at one of these "richest" MoCo high schools, to be applying to the same Ivy League Colleges. Given that 10-30% kids in even the "richest" MoCo high schools live in families with less than $21,000 income, or are in special ed, and many more will have incomes not much above $21,000.

Anonymous wrote:
What I can tell you is that 25% of the students at Sidwell receive financial aid. Beyond that, there are many families who don't qualify for aid, but who sacrifice to send their kids to school there. Those folks would certainly be just as glad to get merit money for college as the familes in MoCo public schools. In sum, your argument that the lower rate of selective college acceptances at the MoCo schools we're discussing can be accounted for by family financial circumstances is based on a lot of assumptions that aren't based in fact.

To get Financial aid at Sidwell you need household income south of $100K (think parents working at not-for-profits, admins; parents with a college education but lower-paying jobs). To get subsidized lunches you need HHI south of $25K (think your/my house cleaners and lawn guys; parents don't have college educations).

This is a huge difference, and you cannot put these two groups on the same footing. In fact, at our small private there are no lawn guys' kids, and I'm guessing no kids from families with HHI below $25K. At area privates, FA is for families earning $80K who need a little extra help. Very little FA at area privates is providing full rides to the really poor kids. Instead, many of those 25% of Sidwell kids are getting only $5-10K. I often feel that discussions about HHI and FARMS on DCUM, even the most well-intentioned conversations, occur in a bubble that doesn't understand how many people live.

Another interesting factoid I reason DCUM recently was that 7-8% of kids at Chevy Chase Ekementary, yes, that's in Chevy Chase, get subsidized lunches. You can verify this for yourself on MoCo website. I'm pretty sure Chevy Chase will av on of the lower rates impaired to, say, the Walter Johnson district.

The point still stands: these FARMS kids are not applying to ivies. Art if this is financial, part of it is parents' education. Maybe they'd get great FA packages from the more well-endowed ivies, but studies have shown they're not aware of this and don't apply.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK, you're not the PP with the matriculation numbers -- my mistake, though my point nonetheless applies to your claim that 12 kids from your DC's public high school got into Columbia. Neither post takes into account the size difference between public and independent schools, so the logic behind both posts is still flawed. And, you're still not responding to my point disputing your claim that all MoCo high schools are filled needy kids -- which is certainly not true of the schools cited by the other PP and to which I was referring in my post. By noting that, I'm not "picking a fight"; rather, I'm responding to a statement. That's called discussion. In that vein, if you find my arguments ridiculous, then go ahead and rebut them -- with facts.

OMG, get a life. Let me make you happy: yes, private school kids are uniformly smarter, more motivated, and even better looking than public school kids. The fact that many public school kids can't afford ivies has absolutely nothing to do with their lower matriculation rates to ivies. In fact most public school kids live in-bounds for Churchill and are just as rich as private school kids -- so feel free to ignore that key point about the affordability of ivies, as you've been doing all along.

Feel better about yourself now?

You forgot the ones who fly into MoCo by private jet from Beverly Hills.

Too many a$$holes on DCUM today. This applies to the people slamming Indiana, too. Is there a full moon? It could be the same poster though.

First of all, I'm not the poster who suggested that kids in public schools aren't motivated; that's patently adbsurd, of course.

Nor did I slam IU; in fact, I find it appalling that anyone other than the students involved and their parents would cite this as an example of parental disappointment in college placement.

That said, we weren't talking about students at all or even most MoCo high schools, but about students in the W schools and RM, cited by Sam2, as well as the school that the Columbia poster's kid attends. So, you tell me, what's the proportion of students at those schools who qualify for free or subsidized lunches?

What I can tell you is that 25% of the students at Sidwell receive financial aid. Beyond that, there are many families who don't qualify for aid, but who sacrifice to send their kids to school there. Those folks would certainly be just as glad to get merit money for college as the familes in MoCo public schools. In sum, your argument that the lower rate of selective college acceptances at the MoCo schools we're discussing can be accounted for by family financial circumstances is based on a lot of assumptions that aren't based in fact.

Anonymous wrote:The young man who is going to try to walk on to play Division I football at IU won a prestigious six-figure merit scholarship from the Washington Post. He, and the other young man, had good choices. It is almost too basic to say, but if one doesn't know the individual circumstances, it really does not make a lot of sense to critique any given student's college choice.

The Washington Post offers college scholarships worth over $100,000? Where can I sign up for that?!? Please tell me!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"This:

SAT Critical Reading: 510 / 620
SAT Math: 540 / 660
SAT Writing: 510 / 610

And, its 50% graduation rate."

Oh my, the sky is falling. STA grads eschew liberal elitist East Coast schools to go to the heartland and (gasp) mingle with people who don't judge you by the name of your undergraduate school. Oh, the shame. Get a life!

You know...I think there may actually be a STA Trustee member who is an IU graduate. I think he actually was twice elected Gov and twice elected Senator of....get ready....you guessed it.....INDIANA! O M G !!!!!

Well his father was an IN Senator at the time and his sons aren’t planning on attending IU. One already committed to Harvard. And IU students are very judgmental, but it’s based on which IN town you grew up in. And as far as not judging people based on the name of their undergraduate school – most IU students think they are attending a very elite school. They think it’s on par with the ivies, etc.

This is an amazing observation. How do YOU know this? It can only be conlcuded that you too are a Hoosier that didn't get into an Ivy. Apparently the posts on this thread are determined to knowck IU or if not, then to summarily state that if you attended STA (or similar) and did not get into an Ivy...you are a failure.

The young man who is going to try to walk on to play Division I football at IU won a prestigious six-figure merit scholarship from the Washington Post. He, and the other young man, had good choices. It is almost too basic to say, but if one doesn't know the individual circumstances, it really does not make a lot of sense to critique any given student's college choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who denies that Indiana is a disappointment for a STA grad is blowing smoke. That doesn't mean Indiana is a horrible school - just not what you hope for after STA.

Yes, I agree.

Yes, you are vile. I have no connection whatsoever to Indiana, FWIW.

You should not comment on something you know nothing about. I think you're the vile one.

Ouch -- because I respect your opinion so much!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who denies that Indiana is a disappointment for a STA grad is blowing smoke. That doesn't mean Indiana is a horrible school - just not what you hope for after STA.

Yes, I agree.

Yes, you are vile. I have no connection whatsoever to Indiana, FWIW.

You should not comment on something you know nothing about. I think you're the vile one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who denies that Indiana is a disappointment for a STA grad is blowing smoke. That doesn't mean Indiana is a horrible school - just not what you hope for after STA.

Yes, I agree.

Yes, you are vile. I have no connection whatsoever to Indiana, FWIW.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"This:

SAT Critical Reading: 510 / 620
SAT Math: 540 / 660
SAT Writing: 510 / 610

And, its 50% graduation rate."

Oh my, the sky is falling. STA grads eschew liberal elitist East Coast schools to go to the heartland and (gasp) mingle with people who don't judge you by the name of your undergraduate school. Oh, the shame. Get a life!

You know...I think there may actually be a STA Trustee member who is an IU graduate. I think he actually was twice elected Gov and twice elected Senator of....get ready....you guessed it.....INDIANA! O M G !!!!!

Well his father was an IN Senator at the time and his sons aren’t planning on attending IU. One already committed to Harvard. And IU students are very judgmental, but it’s based on which IN town you grew up in. And as far as not judging people based on the name of their undergraduate school – most IU students think they are attending a very elite school. They think it’s on par with the ivies, etc.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who denies that Indiana is a disappointment for a STA grad is blowing smoke. That doesn't mean Indiana is a horrible school - just not what you hope for after STA.

Yes, I agree.

Anonymous wrote:18:32 again. Also, I'm really glad we no longer do private school, or I might have become a private school parent who acts like you!

I think we're getting to the heart of the matter now.

Anonymous wrote:"This:

SAT Critical Reading: 510 / 620
SAT Math: 540 / 660
SAT Writing: 510 / 610

And, its 50% graduation rate."

Oh my, the sky is falling. STA grads eschew liberal elitist East Coast schools to go to the heartland and (gasp) mingle with people who don't judge you by the name of your undergraduate school. Oh, the shame. Get a life!

You know...I think there may actually be a STA Trustee member who is an IU graduate. I think he actually was twice elected Gov and twice elected Senator of....get ready....you guessed it.....INDIANA! O M G !!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Get a life, ha-ha, mingling with rednecks...Oy!

Some of you are vile.

I don't know much about Indiana, but the students there can't be any worse than you are.