Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 19:51     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of the “overworked” is more just frustration at handling behavioral issues (either directly or indirectly through not getting enough subs to agree to teach at the school due to behaviors), so why don’t teachers try to do something about the behavior? Most parents want much higher behavioral expectations in the schools too. We talk so much on DCUM about wanting to change different laws, so why is nobody talking about changing whatever laws allow behaviorally disruptive kids to stay in classrooms and drive out all the good teachers? Have the teachers (either through unions or not) actually tried to change this? Or everyone just assumes it’s too hard?



Maybe in wealthy areas but at my Title One school, most parents just don't want to be bothered. Many won't answer the phone if you call them during the day. No kidding. They ignore other communications too.


Okay, so maybe “most voters” is a better thing to say. Most voters want higher expectations for behavior in our schools. The schools are government institutions funded by taxpayers, so what we want for our country is how it should be.


I'm not so sure about this. I'm fairly liberal on a lot of issues but as a former teacher I'm conflicted sometimes because on one hand a lot of Republicans don't care about having strong public schools with decent funding, teacher pay, etc, but on the other hand a lot of the Democrats in my district get obsessed with things like the "School to Prison Pipeline" which really just translates into policies that make it impossible to get disruptive and even dangerous students out of the mainstream classrooms.


One day everyone will realize that more pay isn’t the answer to the problems in our schools. American public schools (particularly in areas like DC) are already literally the most expensive in the world. No other countries spend anything even close to what we do.

What they have though is standards - behavioral standards and academic standards.

I guess we’ll need to hit rock bottom first before everyone understands that even more money isn’t the solution here. Unfortunately it will be an entire generation who suffers in the meantime though.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 19:43     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Imagine having to manage your co-workers AND their parents. Nurses know our struggle.

I'll put the mic down now.

#TeachersAreUndervalued


People in the medical field have to manage patients and their families. I’m a civil rights lawyer, and I need to manage the people on whose behalf I’m advocating (who are not my clients, because I work for the government) plus my client and employer plus the families plus affected communities plus advocacy groups. The list goes on and on.

I am incredibly grateful to my child’s teacher. I suspect she doesn’t complain like the teachers on DCUM do. I don’t understand why the teachers here think the things they complain about are unique to teaching. You’d get less flack if you complained less.



You'd be complaining too if students with behavior issues were ruining your child's classroom. Should teachers just suck it up and pretend this isn't a huge issue? My son is in 1st grade and it's not the second year that his class is being ruined by ONE student. This student regularly causes the rest of the class to have to evacuate, sometimes several times per day. I'm basically teaching my son how to read since this student is interrupting the teacher so much that she can barely get any teaching in.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 19:29     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:Imagine having to manage your co-workers AND their parents. Nurses know our struggle.

I'll put the mic down now.

#TeachersAreUndervalued


People in the medical field have to manage patients and their families. I’m a civil rights lawyer, and I need to manage the people on whose behalf I’m advocating (who are not my clients, because I work for the government) plus my client and employer plus the families plus affected communities plus advocacy groups. The list goes on and on.

I am incredibly grateful to my child’s teacher. I suspect she doesn’t complain like the teachers on DCUM do. I don’t understand why the teachers here think the things they complain about are unique to teaching. You’d get less flack if you complained less.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 18:25     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of the “overworked” is more just frustration at handling behavioral issues (either directly or indirectly through not getting enough subs to agree to teach at the school due to behaviors), so why don’t teachers try to do something about the behavior? Most parents want much higher behavioral expectations in the schools too. We talk so much on DCUM about wanting to change different laws, so why is nobody talking about changing whatever laws allow behaviorally disruptive kids to stay in classrooms and drive out all the good teachers? Have the teachers (either through unions or not) actually tried to change this? Or everyone just assumes it’s too hard?



Maybe in wealthy areas but at my Title One school, most parents just don't want to be bothered. Many won't answer the phone if you call them during the day. No kidding. They ignore other communications too.


Okay, so maybe “most voters” is a better thing to say. Most voters want higher expectations for behavior in our schools. The schools are government institutions funded by taxpayers, so what we want for our country is how it should be.


I'm not so sure about this. I'm fairly liberal on a lot of issues but as a former teacher I'm conflicted sometimes because on one hand a lot of Republicans don't care about having strong public schools with decent funding, teacher pay, etc, but on the other hand a lot of the Democrats in my district get obsessed with things like the "School to Prison Pipeline" which really just translates into policies that make it impossible to get disruptive and even dangerous students out of the mainstream classrooms.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 18:10     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of the “overworked” is more just frustration at handling behavioral issues (either directly or indirectly through not getting enough subs to agree to teach at the school due to behaviors), so why don’t teachers try to do something about the behavior? Most parents want much higher behavioral expectations in the schools too. We talk so much on DCUM about wanting to change different laws, so why is nobody talking about changing whatever laws allow behaviorally disruptive kids to stay in classrooms and drive out all the good teachers? Have the teachers (either through unions or not) actually tried to change this? Or everyone just assumes it’s too hard?



Maybe in wealthy areas but at my Title One school, most parents just don't want to be bothered. Many won't answer the phone if you call them during the day. No kidding. They ignore other communications too.


Okay, so maybe “most voters” is a better thing to say. Most voters want higher expectations for behavior in our schools. The schools are government institutions funded by taxpayers, so what we want for our country is how it should be.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 16:09     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of the “overworked” is more just frustration at handling behavioral issues (either directly or indirectly through not getting enough subs to agree to teach at the school due to behaviors), so why don’t teachers try to do something about the behavior? Most parents want much higher behavioral expectations in the schools too. We talk so much on DCUM about wanting to change different laws, so why is nobody talking about changing whatever laws allow behaviorally disruptive kids to stay in classrooms and drive out all the good teachers? Have the teachers (either through unions or not) actually tried to change this? Or everyone just assumes it’s too hard?



Maybe in wealthy areas but at my Title One school, most parents just don't want to be bothered. Many won't answer the phone if you call them during the day. No kidding. They ignore other communications too.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 15:40     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of the “overworked” is more just frustration at handling behavioral issues (either directly or indirectly through not getting enough subs to agree to teach at the school due to behaviors), so why don’t teachers try to do something about the behavior? Most parents want much higher behavioral expectations in the schools too. We talk so much on DCUM about wanting to change different laws, so why is nobody talking about changing whatever laws allow behaviorally disruptive kids to stay in classrooms and drive out all the good teachers? Have the teachers (either through unions or not) actually tried to change this? Or everyone just assumes it’s too hard?


Let me tell you what it looks like when teachers try to address behavior: First, a lot of parents are in denial, especially in elementary school. Covid didn't help the situation but it was happening for years before that. NCLB was the start. A parent who won't agree to an evaluation or stonewalls a conversation or is otherwise uncooperative means the issue drags for months while the teacher and other students attempt to cope. Second, admin really do not want a bunch of discipline referrals because it looks bad for the school. This is especially true if the student already has an IEP. Teachers are supposed to try a million different interventions first before involving admin unless it's something very serious where imminent danger is likely and even then the student might get ISS for half a day and then be right back in the classroom the next day. Be suspicious if you see an article where an admin is lauded for reducing suspensions or discipline referrals by 95%. Ask almost any teacher and they'll tell you a bunch of stories about being gaslit and berated for trying to refer a student. The expectation is that behavior issues are handled in class and anyone who can't do it is a crappy teacher who is trying to get rid of a student who just needs a little extra help. Ironically, most of the people pushing this narrative the hardest haven't been in a classroom in years and also grew up in a time when kids who were causing regular disruptions, cussing out teachers, and damaging school property were quickly removed from a gen ed setting. Third, it is almost impossible to get a placement in an ED center anymore, mostly because of reasons 1 and 2 but also because working at one of those places is physically and mentally draining and staffing is a problem.

TLDR version: Yes, teachers have tried to change it and it's not happening. Admin and school districts would rather keep 5-10 highly disruptive students in a school, than retain 5-10 highly competent teachers who will inevitably quit over this nonsense.


So stop trying to work with admin. Go above them, go around them. Go to the news.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 11:41     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of the “overworked” is more just frustration at handling behavioral issues (either directly or indirectly through not getting enough subs to agree to teach at the school due to behaviors), so why don’t teachers try to do something about the behavior? Most parents want much higher behavioral expectations in the schools too. We talk so much on DCUM about wanting to change different laws, so why is nobody talking about changing whatever laws allow behaviorally disruptive kids to stay in classrooms and drive out all the good teachers? Have the teachers (either through unions or not) actually tried to change this? Or everyone just assumes it’s too hard?


Let me tell you what it looks like when teachers try to address behavior: First, a lot of parents are in denial, especially in elementary school. Covid didn't help the situation but it was happening for years before that. NCLB was the start. A parent who won't agree to an evaluation or stonewalls a conversation or is otherwise uncooperative means the issue drags for months while the teacher and other students attempt to cope. Second, admin really do not want a bunch of discipline referrals because it looks bad for the school. This is especially true if the student already has an IEP. Teachers are supposed to try a million different interventions first before involving admin unless it's something very serious where imminent danger is likely and even then the student might get ISS for half a day and then be right back in the classroom the next day. Be suspicious if you see an article where an admin is lauded for reducing suspensions or discipline referrals by 95%. Ask almost any teacher and they'll tell you a bunch of stories about being gaslit and berated for trying to refer a student. The expectation is that behavior issues are handled in class and anyone who can't do it is a crappy teacher who is trying to get rid of a student who just needs a little extra help. Ironically, most of the people pushing this narrative the hardest haven't been in a classroom in years and also grew up in a time when kids who were causing regular disruptions, cussing out teachers, and damaging school property were quickly removed from a gen ed setting. Third, it is almost impossible to get a placement in an ED center anymore, mostly because of reasons 1 and 2 but also because working at one of those places is physically and mentally draining and staffing is a problem.

TLDR version: Yes, teachers have tried to change it and it's not happening. Admin and school districts would rather keep 5-10 highly disruptive students in a school, than retain 5-10 highly competent teachers who will inevitably quit over this nonsense.


Yes, to all of this! Big part of burn out and why young teachers are frustrated and those with experience are fed up!
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 10:32     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like a lot of the “overworked” is more just frustration at handling behavioral issues (either directly or indirectly through not getting enough subs to agree to teach at the school due to behaviors), so why don’t teachers try to do something about the behavior? Most parents want much higher behavioral expectations in the schools too. We talk so much on DCUM about wanting to change different laws, so why is nobody talking about changing whatever laws allow behaviorally disruptive kids to stay in classrooms and drive out all the good teachers? Have the teachers (either through unions or not) actually tried to change this? Or everyone just assumes it’s too hard?


Let me tell you what it looks like when teachers try to address behavior: First, a lot of parents are in denial, especially in elementary school. Covid didn't help the situation but it was happening for years before that. NCLB was the start. A parent who won't agree to an evaluation or stonewalls a conversation or is otherwise uncooperative means the issue drags for months while the teacher and other students attempt to cope. Second, admin really do not want a bunch of discipline referrals because it looks bad for the school. This is especially true if the student already has an IEP. Teachers are supposed to try a million different interventions first before involving admin unless it's something very serious where imminent danger is likely and even then the student might get ISS for half a day and then be right back in the classroom the next day. Be suspicious if you see an article where an admin is lauded for reducing suspensions or discipline referrals by 95%. Ask almost any teacher and they'll tell you a bunch of stories about being gaslit and berated for trying to refer a student. The expectation is that behavior issues are handled in class and anyone who can't do it is a crappy teacher who is trying to get rid of a student who just needs a little extra help. Ironically, most of the people pushing this narrative the hardest haven't been in a classroom in years and also grew up in a time when kids who were causing regular disruptions, cussing out teachers, and damaging school property were quickly removed from a gen ed setting. Third, it is almost impossible to get a placement in an ED center anymore, mostly because of reasons 1 and 2 but also because working at one of those places is physically and mentally draining and staffing is a problem.

TLDR version: Yes, teachers have tried to change it and it's not happening. Admin and school districts would rather keep 5-10 highly disruptive students in a school, than retain 5-10 highly competent teachers who will inevitably quit over this nonsense.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 07:52     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
The pendulum has swung the other way, there are no consequences for behaviors, and that's even when the parents are on board (much more difficult when they are in denial about an actual problem, or in "they are your problem while at school" mode). Nothing the teacher can do, as admin and central office will lay out different things to try, data to collect, and once you've done all that, they say now try this, and then that, and the next thing you know it's the end of the school year and the child will be another teachers problem, not yours.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 07:34     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
“ We talk so much on DCUM about wanting to change different laws, so why is nobody talking about changing whatever laws allow behaviorally disruptive kids to stay in classrooms and drive out all the good teachers? Have the teachers (either through unions or not) actually tried to change this? Or everyone just assumes it’s too hard?”

I’d join a campaign for this. Teachers generally don’t lobby on stuff like that.
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 05:34     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Imagine having to manage your co-workers AND their parents. Nurses know our struggle.

I'll put the mic down now.

#TeachersAreUndervalued
Anonymous
Post 12/30/2022 01:18     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
It sounds like a lot of the “overworked” is more just frustration at handling behavioral issues (either directly or indirectly through not getting enough subs to agree to teach at the school due to behaviors), so why don’t teachers try to do something about the behavior? Most parents want much higher behavioral expectations in the schools too. We talk so much on DCUM about wanting to change different laws, so why is nobody talking about changing whatever laws allow behaviorally disruptive kids to stay in classrooms and drive out all the good teachers? Have the teachers (either through unions or not) actually tried to change this? Or everyone just assumes it’s too hard?
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2022 23:46     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For the teacher that has three hours of planning time per week, you are lucky. In our school, we are pulled from our planning time to go cover other classrooms where teachers is out, no sub is available


I’m in an elementary school and we’ve been pretty much covered this SY. I think teachers in HS get pulled more often for coverage.


I am at a MCPS elementary school and our ESL teachers get pulled to cover at least 2-3 days a week for absent teachers. Paras (including those hired as Spec Ed paras) get pulled to sub for grade level teachers every single day. Admin is not approving personal leave days, so many people end up calling out sick if they had a doctors appointment, which obviously results in increased staffing shortages. We can’t get subs (mini behavior issues at our school) and admin, staff devl teacher and reading specialist have yet to cover a single class this year. Every year the behaviors become more and more challenging with additional to do items added to our daily responsibilities but this year‘s pace has become unsustainable. Many of us have burned out and it is only December. If they increased the salary for teachers, it would be possible to occasionally outsource things like cleaning or food delivery, which would allow us to spend quality time with our own children in the evenings. As it is, I feel my students get the best, most positive, caring, energetic, etc. version of me and I am completely drained by the time I get home. I consider myself to be an extremely dedicated teacher but I am looking into changing careers.


I'm sorry. I'm at an FCPS ES and I haven't heard of our ESOL having to cover. I was talking with one of our IAs just before break and she said it didn't get too bad last year and this year has been pretty good. The school has hired a number of monitors that are on hand to help out and cover classes as needed. Our sub pool is pretty decent though.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2022 22:55     Subject: Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For the teacher that has three hours of planning time per week, you are lucky. In our school, we are pulled from our planning time to go cover other classrooms where teachers is out, no sub is available


I’m in an elementary school and we’ve been pretty much covered this SY. I think teachers in HS get pulled more often for coverage.


I am at a MCPS elementary school and our ESL teachers get pulled to cover at least 2-3 days a week for absent teachers. Paras (including those hired as Spec Ed paras) get pulled to sub for grade level teachers every single day. Admin is not approving personal leave days, so many people end up calling out sick if they had a doctors appointment, which obviously results in increased staffing shortages. We can’t get subs (mini behavior issues at our school) and admin, staff devl teacher and reading specialist have yet to cover a single class this year. Every year the behaviors become more and more challenging with additional to do items added to our daily responsibilities but this year‘s pace has become unsustainable. Many of us have burned out and it is only December. If they increased the salary for teachers, it would be possible to occasionally outsource things like cleaning or food delivery, which would allow us to spend quality time with our own children in the evenings. As it is, I feel my students get the best, most positive, caring, energetic, etc. version of me and I am completely drained by the time I get home. I consider myself to be an extremely dedicated teacher but I am looking into changing careers.


^^ many behavior issues (not mini) lol