Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 12:54     Subject: Re:Hidden emotional abuse
My father was very similar to the OPs DH. My siblings and I were thrilled when they divorced and we didn't have to live with him. I'd encourage women who have allowed themselves to become dependent on their abusive spouses to figure out how to support themselves financially and take ownership of their lives and take care of their chidlren. My mother was lower middle class and she managed to leave him and raise us as a single mom and give us a very nice life.

I know that I am going to get flamed for this. But to the OP and all of the ladies with similar husbands, was this behavior really so well hidden that there were no signs before marriage and children? My mother was pressured to get married young and has shared with me that she ignored some signs of my father's issues. She still managed to be a great mom despite him and the only thing I slightly resent from time to time is that she chose him to be our father. Staying with an abusive spouse because you are unable to support yourself is not being a good parent in my experience. Flame away.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 12:06     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sounds hereditary- his father, him, possibly your difficult youngest daughter or the sons.

Read up on NT/AS relationships or www.theneurotypical.com

Does he have any deep or meaningful relationships? Or just talk shop or TV shows or news articles? Can he discuss anything if feelings are mentioned or involved? Or stonewall or get angry and deflect?


NP here. OP, I empathize because I have posted before, and gotten the "DCUM Treatment" (in short, gaslighting for being gaslit). I was actually reluctant to post, until I saw so many PP's in the same situation. All the intangibles, all the social and emotional issues that come about as a result of being with someone like this, for so long.

This PP's posting really helped, and reignited my interest in the subject. Some periods are worse than others, and (for example) being around DH's family brings out the worst in him, because they constantly treat him as a second (or third or fourth) thought. They do not include him in family events (before DCUM tries to pile it on, as they do - it has nothing to do with me, I get along with his family just fine). So many items on the referenced list (posted above) - naively gullible; terrible driver (her gets screamed at constantly on the road, it is dangerous), oblivious to others' feelings, touch averse, poor impulse control, "lack of understanding that they don't understand", they are always right, interpret everything literally, do not take your existing knowledge into consideration, rigid routines, same foods every day, present as "Mr. Nice Guy", same phone game for hours upon hours upon hours each day, emotional deprivation, fooling marriage counselors into taking their side, and more.

Sadly, the NT spouse gets the brunt of the rage (unable to process emotions properly or without rage). And yes, one or both of his parents are the same. I suspect that DC may have been lucky to have escaped, but DH still tries to triangulate, and creates a volatile situation whenever possible. If I left, the kids would have no college, frankly (I have run the numbers, before DCUM tries to pee on that, too).

It is always a relief to find out you are not alone in this terrible situation, OP. We didn't ask for this. Research will tell you that spouses with these traits are perfectly capable of presenting normally (ie: when dating).


OMG. Every single one of these describes my husband. I'm sort of shocked seeing this in writing describing anyone other than him. This is oddly validating and supremely sad all at once. I'm going to dive into those resources. But literally Every. Single. One. of those traits he possesses. Sigh....
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 11:53     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
Op, if you are angry at your husband, that’s one thing.

But you should not take your anger at your husband out on your kids. My mom did that to me. Dad was frequently absent and cheating and she was unhappy and took her unhappy feelings out on me. She was in a bad mood and I bore the brunt.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 11:37     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
Anonymous wrote:He sounds a lot like my husband. And it's incredibly difficult to explain and recall, I get it.

I say this with kindness, your children learn how to behave in a relationship from the opposite sex parent. I heard that you are sad about your sons not seeing him for who he is, but I think you should turn that focus on your daughters.

And it really wasn't clear, can you afford to divorce? For me it's untenable. I know it's emotional upheaval for the kids and a big PITA logistically, but if you can it may be a good choice for you.


PP here. My kids get it. I almost called the cops the other day when he lost his sh&t. Now that they are teens, they totally understand what is really happening. He doesn't like that I am working, and that I have a life, for one.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 11:36     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
PP, Silent treatment is a BIG part of it - not telling you when they are coming and going - leaving the house. We live together, we are married, and you can't tell me when you are here or not?? Who does that??

Also (on the flip side) - not answering if I call (whether on the phone or in the house). Which can be scary, if you hear the door open, you know you heard the door open, and you know someone is in the house......it's kind of an awful feeling.

One time, he even left me behind when he went to the kids' sports. I wasn't late, I hadn't said anything (so I could not in any way be blamed for what happened) - he just felt like being an a-hole and triangulating with the kids, and I am the bad guy for calling him on his stunts. (His favorite thing to do). Literally left me in the driveway for no reason, except that he likes drama. Very much a holdover from his birth family, who has zero respect for him, and he was part of their drama and bullying constantly, so now he tries to bully me.

Mean and hurtful - that is the only consistent.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 11:36     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
He sounds a lot like my husband. And it's incredibly difficult to explain and recall, I get it.

I say this with kindness, your children learn how to behave in a relationship from the opposite sex parent. I heard that you are sad about your sons not seeing him for who he is, but I think you should turn that focus on your daughters.

And it really wasn't clear, can you afford to divorce? For me it's untenable. I know it's emotional upheaval for the kids and a big PITA logistically, but if you can it may be a good choice for you.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 11:28     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So sorry Op. I suffer the same chronic abuse and have young children.

Where is the line between aspergers and narcissism? The put downs and his anger/yelling and nasty looks never stop. There’s no way he is or also a bully at work.



Well my husband has become a bully at work, too, I think. my son told me a story that my husband told him about bossing people around (he is the boss, but it wasn't a very nice story)

It's like he has to assert his dominance to feel good about himself.


My son has a friend who is a true genius (IQ 165). Im sorry, but it doesn't hurt my ego to know that other people are smarter than I am. We've spent time talking about the amazing things this kid can do, the beautiful music he creates, etc. But my husband can't stand him, has an "attitude" about him, and one time he was over here and tried helping with something by making a suggestion about moving tables (we were setting up for something ) and my husband was rude and obnoxious and just ridiculous in how he responded to this kid's suggestion. It was so embarrassing for our son, for me, and the genius friend. I had to go apologize and make something up, but inside I was seething and humiliated. This type of thing has happened in different scenarios for years...just like total lack of desire to adhere to social propriety or lack of concern for how he makes someone else feel as long as he is saying/doing what makes him feel good.

But he can absolutely put on a good face when he wants to. Just keep the time short or he will let the mask slip.






Not all narcissists assert their dominance outside of the home. Some are bullies inside of the home, and keep their "mask" on - very well, I might add, outside the home. Combine that with HFA - good times!
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 11:24     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
Anonymous wrote:Is this how he’s always been? It sounds a lot like he might be having an affair — he needs to making you into “the bad guy”and wrong at every turn so he can blame you and justify his behavior to himself.







It 100% sounds like it. And so does this statement:

"Then days like today he will arrive home in a jolly mood and act like nothing happened the other 90 % of the time that he is miserable to be around. And the kids love it, and it pisses me the F off because nothing has changed for me and the last 10 years of my life have been hell living with him."

The jekyll and hide behavior and the snapping and putting down wife/ignoring. Classic.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 11:16     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
I had meant their is no way he isn’t also a bully at work. But the hierarchy and power allows him to and people put up w it. Plus the rest of teams must fix his executive functioning mistakes or blatant lying to clients. He thinks promising own thing to one side and the opposite to the other side is a tactic and then makes his team and clients figure it out in a fog. Same thing he does with me and his mother. Promises you what he thinks you want— but to everyone!
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 10:53     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
Anonymous wrote:So sorry Op. I suffer the same chronic abuse and have young children.

Where is the line between aspergers and narcissism? The put downs and his anger/yelling and nasty looks never stop. There’s no way he is or also a bully at work.



Well my husband has become a bully at work, too, I think. my son told me a story that my husband told him about bossing people around (he is the boss, but it wasn't a very nice story)

It's like he has to assert his dominance to feel good about himself.


My son has a friend who is a true genius (IQ 165). Im sorry, but it doesn't hurt my ego to know that other people are smarter than I am. We've spent time talking about the amazing things this kid can do, the beautiful music he creates, etc. But my husband can't stand him, has an "attitude" about him, and one time he was over here and tried helping with something by making a suggestion about moving tables (we were setting up for something ) and my husband was rude and obnoxious and just ridiculous in how he responded to this kid's suggestion. It was so embarrassing for our son, for me, and the genius friend. I had to go apologize and make something up, but inside I was seething and humiliated. This type of thing has happened in different scenarios for years...just like total lack of desire to adhere to social propriety or lack of concern for how he makes someone else feel as long as he is saying/doing what makes him feel good.

But he can absolutely put on a good face when he wants to. Just keep the time short or he will let the mask slip.




Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 10:50     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP. If financially possible at some point, I hope that you can eventually divorce. If you do, I would stay very vague and neutral about the reasons and keep it to “we grew apart”. He’d use anything you said against you.

If you have to stay married, stay as separated as possible. Don’t engage with his bullying, go into another room when he’s around, put on headphones and listen to a podcast so you don’t have to talk to him. He is enjoying your pain so try not to show it to him. Answer his questions briefly and with a placid smile, don’t confide in him or discuss anything personal. Keep all conversation short.


How can anyone live this way for any prolonged period of time?


Great question but many do. It’s quite damaging, even once you ID it and have a name and books for it.

Leaving and doing the work to refund yourself, trust and love again is the best route but very tough with children and coparenting forever which such an unhealthy Ex.


Pp here. I strongly agree that divorcing and rebuilding her life is the healthiest option for OP. If she is not yet ready to take that step, her focus needs to be self preservation and limiting engagement with her DH. I don’t think it is possible at this point to talk him out of his behavior or try and fix the marriage.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 09:59     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
So sorry Op. I suffer the same chronic abuse and have young children.

Where is the line between aspergers and narcissism? The put downs and his anger/yelling and nasty looks never stop. There’s no way he is or also a bully at work.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 09:53     Subject: Re:Hidden emotional abuse
OP again. Here is a classic example of the "quiet" way he does this stuff. We had rented a pontoon boat as we were staying in a lake house for a week. He was driving the boat (the first thing he got involved in on this vacation), and was driving straight down the middle of the lake very fast. It was a large lake, and I wanted to meander a little and look at all of the beautiful homes on the coast line. So I asked him if on the way back to our lake house we could go slower and a little closer to the shore so I could take some pictures, see the sights, etc. He said, very sarcastically, "yeah, maybe there is a parkway straight back to the lake house with a speed limit you would like"...or something like that but it was quietly said under his breath as I stood next to him and he was being mean because he interprets anyone saying ANYTHING about something he is doing as murder to his ego. So I refused to engage in front of the kids and just walked away....then that gave him more fodder to criticize me for "not taking a joke".

Our whole married life he has made "jokes" at my expense, that are really just thinly veiled (or not so thinly veiled) nasty remarks that are in no way funny and are said meanly. But then he can turn around when I'm angry and say I just can't take a joke, when I see through his shit now.

He kept on under his breath, and the other 6 people on the boat had no idea it was happening, and I went to the back of the boat and sat looking out at the water wanting to jump in and get away from him. I'm just so tired, and like I said above, I want to be free.

Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 09:46     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sounds hereditary- his father, him, possibly your difficult youngest daughter or the sons.

Read up on NT/AS relationships or www.theneurotypical.com

Does he have any deep or meaningful relationships? Or just talk shop or TV shows or news articles? Can he discuss anything if feelings are mentioned or involved? Or stonewall or get angry and deflect?


NP here. OP, I empathize because I have posted before, and gotten the "DCUM Treatment" (in short, gaslighting for being gaslit). I was actually reluctant to post, until I saw so many PP's in the same situation. All the intangibles, all the social and emotional issues that come about as a result of being with someone like this, for so long.

This PP's posting really helped, and reignited my interest in the subject. Some periods are worse than others, and (for example) being around DH's family brings out the worst in him, because they constantly treat him as a second (or third or fourth) thought. They do not include him in family events (before DCUM tries to pile it on, as they do - it has nothing to do with me, I get along with his family just fine). So many items on the referenced list (posted above) - naively gullible; terrible driver (her gets screamed at constantly on the road, it is dangerous), oblivious to others' feelings, touch averse, poor impulse control, "lack of understanding that they don't understand", they are always right, interpret everything literally, do not take your existing knowledge into consideration, rigid routines, same foods every day, present as "Mr. Nice Guy", same phone game for hours upon hours upon hours each day, emotional deprivation, fooling marriage counselors into taking their side, and more.

Sadly, the NT spouse gets the brunt of the rage (unable to process emotions properly or without rage). And yes, one or both of his parents are the same. I suspect that DC may have been lucky to have escaped, but DH still tries to triangulate, and creates a volatile situation whenever possible. If I left, the kids would have no college, frankly (I have run the numbers, before DCUM tries to pee on that, too).

It is always a relief to find out you are not alone in this terrible situation, OP. We didn't ask for this. Research will tell you that spouses with these traits are perfectly capable of presenting normally (ie: when dating).


OP here. Yes, it's a relief, although I don't wish for anyone else to live like this. So many things you mentioned also fit my husband. Terrible driver, rigid routines, same foods every day, "Mr. Nice Guy" in public, emotional deprivation, fooling marriage counselors, always right, etc. It all fits. There is ZERO give and take even in the most commonplace of conversations. He literally tried to start shit the other day when I mentioned a new ceiling fan I had bought. It's absurd.

I'm sick of wasting my life, and I'm grateful that my youngest is 12 because I won't have to worry about living like this once she turns 18. I just want to be free.

I used to think the worst thing in life was being alone....it's not. Living like this (and having him subliminally teaching this to my children) is the worst way to live.
Anonymous
Post 09/08/2021 09:46     Subject: Hidden emotional abuse
Anonymous wrote:I can guarantee, if he gives you silent treatment, your kids will have noticed.

My dad used to do this when he got upset. I didn't realize it was abuse at the time, but I always noticed when it was happening and felt the tension.

He'd do it for a few days and then one day just magically start talking.

The most vivid thing I remember about 9/11 is that my dad was giving the silent treatment at the time. My mom was in Boston for work and grounded there. She had a cellphone and my dad did as well, but my siblings and I didn't. His phone rang a few times and it was her number, but he wouldn't answer or let us answer. She finally got through on the landline hours later to speak with me and my siblings. He wouldn't speak with her.


At some point did you and your subs get therapy?

Did you date and marry similar men to your father (silent, no emotion, emotionally abusive, doesn’t talk much, etc.) ?

Or did you go with the opposite?