Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it rising in teens when vaccines have been out for 3 months? In other words, why isn't it only rising in under 12's? Anyone care to guess?

Presumably the same reasons it's rising in people in their 20s and 30s where I live? (Spotty vaccination levels, limited precautions)

Exactly. Just because the vaccine has been available doesn't at all been it has been administered broadly enough to make a dent in delta spread.

Oh so most teens aren't getting it? UK cases are dropping now without vaccinating kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it rising in teens when vaccines have been out for 3 months? In other words, why isn't it only rising in under 12's? Anyone care to guess?

Presumably the same reasons it's rising in people in their 20s and 30s where I live? (Spotty vaccination levels, limited precautions)

Exactly. Just because the vaccine has been available doesn't at all been it has been administered broadly enough to make a dent in delta spread.

Anonymous wrote:On a related note about delta, an article about its rapid decline in one highly vaccinated country (UK) and one highly unvaccinated country (India):

https://fortune.com/2021/08/03/covid-delta-variant-wave-uk-have-already-receded-us/

From Aug. 3, 2021

"But data from other countries is providing some hope that the U.S.’ recent Delta-driven wave may dissipate as fast as it emerged. In the U.K., daily confirmed cases of COVID-19 have fallen by 50% in the past week after the country experienced its largest wave of infections in months. In India, where the Delta variant first emerged, confirmed COVID-19 infections have dropped by a factor of ten in the last few months—after peaking at nearly 400,000 daily infections in May. No one knows for certain exactly why Delta cases have dropped so fast—and many experts are baffled."

The article ends with wondering if the U.S. will mirror this quick fall.

It is still too soon to tell whether the fall, likely from school break, will be followed by a re-uptick from UK's "freedom day".

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/03/us/covid-19-children-teens/index.html
Rates are rising quickly in children and teens. Hope you bought some good masks for the school year.

Testing positive and getting sick are not the same thing.

If it was as bad as the media would have you believe, then the FDA would not require additional testing to authorize the vaccine for emergency use. The FDA basically admitted this is NBD for the under-12’s.

Anonymous wrote:Why is it rising in teens when vaccines have been out for 3 months? In other words, why isn't it only rising in under 12's? Anyone care to guess?

Presumably the same reasons it's rising in people in their 20s and 30s where I live? (Spotty vaccination levels, limited precautions)

On a related note about delta, an article about its rapid decline in one highly vaccinated country (UK) and one highly unvaccinated country (India):

https://fortune.com/2021/08/03/covid-delta-variant-wave-uk-have-already-receded-us/

From Aug. 3, 2021

"But data from other countries is providing some hope that the U.S.’ recent Delta-driven wave may dissipate as fast as it emerged. In the U.K., daily confirmed cases of COVID-19 have fallen by 50% in the past week after the country experienced its largest wave of infections in months. In India, where the Delta variant first emerged, confirmed COVID-19 infections have dropped by a factor of ten in the last few months—after peaking at nearly 400,000 daily infections in May. No one knows for certain exactly why Delta cases have dropped so fast—and many experts are baffled."

The article ends with wondering if the U.S. will mirror this quick fall.

Why is it rising in teens when vaccines have been out for 3 months? In other words, why isn't it only rising in under 12's? Anyone care to guess?

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/03/us/covid-19-children-teens/index.html
Rates are rising quickly in children and teens. Hope you bought some good masks for the school year.

Weird it's rising in teens despite millions being vaccinated. Oops thanks CNN

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/03/us/covid-19-children-teens/index.html
Rates are rising quickly in children and teens. Hope you bought some good masks for the school year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they're vaccinating children. Absolutely bonkers here. The world has gone mad.

In other parts of the world, where the vaccine hasn't been so politicized (such as Germany and the UK), health agencies are coming to the conclusion that for younger kids, the vaccine doesn't seem necessary. I don't have faith that American health agencies will be able to make an objective determination, in the current political climate.

I've got 2 kids under the age of 10, and I haven't seen anything to convince me that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the potential risks. Vaccination of kids would mostly be of benefit to adults who won't vaccinate themselves. Why should I make my kids get vaccinates to help people like that?

I agree with you.

I have following the discourse closely and have family in other parts of the world.

I have no plans to get my 8 year old vaccinated if/when the shot gets EUA. My 12 year old is eligible for Pfizer, but I am not even convinced that is worth it right now.

I’m obviously keeping a close eye on numbers and would be willing to reconsider for my 12 year old if numbers increase in kids (hopefully not!).

DH and I, plus grandparents, are all fully vaxxed and kids will be going back to in person school in the fall as long as MCPS reopens.

I think there is no ‘wrong’ choice here. Parents of kids under age 18 can go either way and it is a valid choice based on ones own risk tolerance.

Why do they believe it's not necessary? Where I live, adults aren't getting vaccinated, so I am going to have to get my son vaccinated I think.

They don't think it is not necessary. That is a misreading. Many EU countries have already started vaccinating 12-17 and others were waiting for go ahead from the European Medicines Agency. Those overseeing vaccinations in the UK and germany specifically said they would like to wait to see more data, so they are taking a more conservative approach. But no one is really claiming it isn't necessary, they're just HOPING it isn't or waiting for more availability of vaccines.

DP. This isn’t quite an accurate representation either. I cannot speak for the UK, but in Germany the position of the government differs from that of the independent expert commission on vaccines. While the government is pushing for getting teens vaccinated in a quest for herd immunity, the independent experts say that they don’t think that based on the current data we have on the vaccine and the evidence of the low risk of Covid to healthy children, they can recommend vaccinating all teenagers. They are not discouraging parents from making the decision to get their teens vaccinated, but as a matter of policy they don’t think the risk-benefit calculation is in favor of it due to the lack of data on the safety of the vaccine and the fact that kids are low risk. It is not a matter of “hoping” for anything. Nor is it a supply issue, or the German government wouldn’t be advocating for general vaccination of teenagers.

It's a timing and supply issue as the government promised everyone over 12 could be vaccinated by the summer, but they were prioritizing high risk groups and adults first. Since Stiko wasn not recommending it for kids 12-17, waiting on more data, supply was aimed toward the unvaxxed.

Germany only has 60%ish vaccinated....they still have a lot of adults left to go.

AS far as the rest of your post, pretty much what I said--they are being ultra conservative waiting on more data but they are essentially hoping that kids won't need it with delta and more re-opening/ They want more data, and they are reaching for adult herd immunity, so yeah...again. Not a completey rational position.

Yet, they do recommend it for kids with chronic conditions or comorbidities, so their position doesn't really make much sense, esp given the scads of data we have and the near global, universal consensus that it is a safe and necessary vaccines for kids.

Your post is a little bit muddled, but the bolded was my point. Stiko is the expert commission on vaccines, and their decision not to recommend universal vaccination of this age group had nothing to do with supply. They were quite explicit about that.

And I am not sure what evidence you have that there is a “near global, universal consensus” that the vaccine is necessary for kids. It certainly doesn’t exist for the younger age group that isn’t even approved under EUA yet.

And just for the record, if I had teens, they would get their shots. But not because I think Covid is a huge risk for them. I would do it because I want this pandemic to end and because I want them to get their lives back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they're vaccinating children. Absolutely bonkers here. The world has gone mad.

In other parts of the world, where the vaccine hasn't been so politicized (such as Germany and the UK), health agencies are coming to the conclusion that for younger kids, the vaccine doesn't seem necessary. I don't have faith that American health agencies will be able to make an objective determination, in the current political climate.

I've got 2 kids under the age of 10, and I haven't seen anything to convince me that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the potential risks. Vaccination of kids would mostly be of benefit to adults who won't vaccinate themselves. Why should I make my kids get vaccinates to help people like that?

I agree with you.

I have following the discourse closely and have family in other parts of the world.

I have no plans to get my 8 year old vaccinated if/when the shot gets EUA. My 12 year old is eligible for Pfizer, but I am not even convinced that is worth it right now.

I’m obviously keeping a close eye on numbers and would be willing to reconsider for my 12 year old if numbers increase in kids (hopefully not!).

DH and I, plus grandparents, are all fully vaxxed and kids will be going back to in person school in the fall as long as MCPS reopens.

I think there is no ‘wrong’ choice here. Parents of kids under age 18 can go either way and it is a valid choice based on ones own risk tolerance.

Why do they believe it's not necessary? Where I live, adults aren't getting vaccinated, so I am going to have to get my son vaccinated I think.

They don't think it is not necessary. That is a misreading. Many EU countries have already started vaccinating 12-17 and others were waiting for go ahead from the European Medicines Agency. Those overseeing vaccinations in the UK and germany specifically said they would like to wait to see more data, so they are taking a more conservative approach. But no one is really claiming it isn't necessary, they're just HOPING it isn't or waiting for more availability of vaccines.

DP. This isn’t quite an accurate representation either. I cannot speak for the UK, but in Germany the position of the government differs from that of the independent expert commission on vaccines. While the government is pushing for getting teens vaccinated in a quest for herd immunity, the independent experts say that they don’t think that based on the current data we have on the vaccine and the evidence of the low risk of Covid to healthy children, they can recommend vaccinating all teenagers. They are not discouraging parents from making the decision to get their teens vaccinated, but as a matter of policy they don’t think the risk-benefit calculation is in favor of it due to the lack of data on the safety of the vaccine and the fact that kids are low risk. It is not a matter of “hoping” for anything. Nor is it a supply issue, or the German government wouldn’t be advocating for general vaccination of teenagers.

It's a timing and supply issue as the government promised everyone over 12 could be vaccinated by the summer, but they were prioritizing high risk groups and adults first. Since Stiko wasn not recommending it for kids 12-17, waiting on more data, supply was aimed toward the unvaxxed.

Germany only has 60%ish vaccinated....they still have a lot of adults left to go.

AS far as the rest of your post, pretty much what I said--they are being ultra conservative waiting on more data but they are essentially hoping that kids won't need it with delta and more re-opening/ They want more data, and they are reaching for adult herd immunity, so yeah...again. Not a completey rational position.

Yet, they do recommend it for kids with chronic conditions or comorbidities, so their position doesn't really make much sense, esp given the scads of data we have and the near global, universal consensus that it is a safe and necessary vaccines for kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for posting this OP.

It's so easy to get caught up in the race to be most cautious among DC area parents (we would never do daycare, oh yeah well we're avoiding all air travel, oh yeah well we wear masks outdoors always, etc.), that sometimes I lose touch with the facts. Or at least the facts we know so far. This whole thing requires some humility and acknowledging there are no perfect decisions, but we can at least try to be as informed as possible - and this is good level-headed information.

I don't envy parents of older children making the vaccine decision. As the parent of a very young child, I too will be looking closely at both the European recommendations and whether the US grants an EUA. I was first in line to be vaccinated and I am open to vaccinating my child, but it pains me to think I may have to vaccinate her not because she's at risk, but because not enough adults would step up and do it.

The bolded is so important. In our neck of the woods, being the most cautious correlates directly with a crap-ton of moral superiority and judgment of those who aren’t the most cautious, and I’m sick of that dynamic. Not going above and beyond health regulations doesn’t make me a COVID-denier, and frankly, there’s something to be said for not contributing to the shaming and divisiveness around this issue.

I actually think vaccinating older kids (12+) is more straightforward than younger ones, because the data suggest they’re more at risk from COVID. We’ll vaccinate our kids (all three younger than 10) when it’s available, but I also haven’t seen *any* data suggesting COVID presents a substantial risk to them, even unvaccinated. We can’t keep kids home forever.

+ 1 billion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they're vaccinating children. Absolutely bonkers here. The world has gone mad.

In other parts of the world, where the vaccine hasn't been so politicized (such as Germany and the UK), health agencies are coming to the conclusion that for younger kids, the vaccine doesn't seem necessary. I don't have faith that American health agencies will be able to make an objective determination, in the current political climate.

I've got 2 kids under the age of 10, and I haven't seen anything to convince me that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the potential risks. Vaccination of kids would mostly be of benefit to adults who won't vaccinate themselves. Why should I make my kids get vaccinates to help people like that?

I agree with you.

I have following the discourse closely and have family in other parts of the world.

I have no plans to get my 8 year old vaccinated if/when the shot gets EUA. My 12 year old is eligible for Pfizer, but I am not even convinced that is worth it right now.

I’m obviously keeping a close eye on numbers and would be willing to reconsider for my 12 year old if numbers increase in kids (hopefully not!).

DH and I, plus grandparents, are all fully vaxxed and kids will be going back to in person school in the fall as long as MCPS reopens.

I think there is no ‘wrong’ choice here. Parents of kids under age 18 can go either way and it is a valid choice based on ones own risk tolerance.

Why do they believe it's not necessary? Where I live, adults aren't getting vaccinated, so I am going to have to get my son vaccinated I think.

They don't think it is not necessary. That is a misreading. Many EU countries have already started vaccinating 12-17 and others were waiting for go ahead from the European Medicines Agency. Those overseeing vaccinations in the UK and germany specifically said they would like to wait to see more data, so they are taking a more conservative approach. But no one is really claiming it isn't necessary, they're just HOPING it isn't or waiting for more availability of vaccines.

DP. This isn’t quite an accurate representation either. I cannot speak for the UK, but in Germany the position of the government differs from that of the independent expert commission on vaccines. While the government is pushing for getting teens vaccinated in a quest for herd immunity, the independent experts say that they don’t think that based on the current data we have on the vaccine and the evidence of the low risk of Covid to healthy children, they can recommend vaccinating all teenagers. They are not discouraging parents from making the decision to get their teens vaccinated, but as a matter of policy they don’t think the risk-benefit calculation is in favor of it due to the lack of data on the safety of the vaccine and the fact that kids are low risk. It is not a matter of “hoping” for anything. Nor is it a supply issue, or the German government wouldn’t be advocating for general vaccination of teenagers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they're vaccinating children. Absolutely bonkers here. The world has gone mad.

In other parts of the world, where the vaccine hasn't been so politicized (such as Germany and the UK), health agencies are coming to the conclusion that for younger kids, the vaccine doesn't seem necessary. I don't have faith that American health agencies will be able to make an objective determination, in the current political climate.

I've got 2 kids under the age of 10, and I haven't seen anything to convince me that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the potential risks. Vaccination of kids would mostly be of benefit to adults who won't vaccinate themselves. Why should I make my kids get vaccinates to help people like that?

I agree with you.

I have following the discourse closely and have family in other parts of the world.

I have no plans to get my 8 year old vaccinated if/when the shot gets EUA. My 12 year old is eligible for Pfizer, but I am not even convinced that is worth it right now.

I’m obviously keeping a close eye on numbers and would be willing to reconsider for my 12 year old if numbers increase in kids (hopefully not!).

DH and I, plus grandparents, are all fully vaxxed and kids will be going back to in person school in the fall as long as MCPS reopens.

I think there is no ‘wrong’ choice here. Parents of kids under age 18 can go either way and it is a valid choice based on ones own risk tolerance.

Why do they believe it's not necessary? Where I live, adults aren't getting vaccinated, so I am going to have to get my son vaccinated I think.

They don't think it is not necessary. That is a misreading. Many EU countries have already started vaccinating 12-17 and others were waiting for go ahead from the European Medicines Agency. Those overseeing vaccinations in the UK and germany specifically said they would like to wait to see more data, so they are taking a more conservative approach. But no one is really claiming it isn't necessary, they're just HOPING it isn't or waiting for more availability of vaccines.

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1513

Regarding hospitalization NUMBERS (not rates) in UK, where delta has already surged:

June 15, 2021

Are more children becoming ill?
There are no official figures on this, although leaders in the area of child health have refuted suggestions made by members of the Scottish government that children were now more at risk from covid-19 and that many had been admitted to hospital.

Steve Turner, Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health registrar and consultant paediatrician at Royal Aberdeen Children’s hospital, said, “As it stands there are very few children in hospital in Scotland and across the whole of the UK due to covid. We’re not seeing any evidence of an increase in paediatric admissions with covid. A very small number of admissions who test positive for covid is what we’d expect.

“Our experience over the last 15 months is that many children who test positive have come into hospital for something else, like broken bones. At the moment the situation in the UK is stable. The number of children in hospital with covid remains very low.”