I’m pp and I forgot to mention some guys got really aggressive (they misinterpreted my being nice and smiling and generally happy and we’re embarrassed) but some of these guys got all red cornered me and were very very pushy. That’s what scared me to say no.

I didn’t read the whole thread but while I was younger and dating my boyfriend now husband I had a verryyyyyyy difficult time saying no and being assertive especially since I was at big law events and law school events. I also brought girlfriends with me to show I wasn’t interested but I was intimidated to say no out right there were never ever second meetups because I acted more aloof but I’ll tell you as a young woman at a big law cocktail hour I was scared to say no or I was gently saying no and the guy kept pushing it at which point I made it about oh let’s learn more and I’ll bring my colleague along and we can chat so and so path.

Give her the benefit of the doubt it’s hard to be a woman, the connection to the daughter activity is important as she’d be seeing this person again. I was always always open with my husband and at one point …I even brought him along to one of these so called first date dinners.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She got asked out on a date that he tried to frame as "not a date" (just wants advice!) and turned it into not-a-date for real (bringing a girlfriend, talking about her boyfriend). I think that your discomfort makes sense but also that you might not understand, as a guy, the layers women have to navigate to keep guys from feeling rejected when you reject them. Their kids are on a team together so she has to see him in the future and if he gets his feelings hurt he could make it extremely uncomfortable. He could badmouth her to other parents, harass her when he sees her, stalk her, get violent, none of it is out of the realm of reality.

This.

Unless you are there to physically protect her every moment of the day OP, you can't police how she tries to gently let down guys. I would have actually invited you along instead of the girlfriend, but that's me.

If you two don't want to get married for whatever reasons you have, have you thought about giving her a nice ring to wear on her left hand? Would she like one? It's a universal signal for "not available." She could even pick on out that doesn't have engagement ring vibes.

I used to wear one all the time when I was single and working with the public. Sometimes random guys who you've never met before get really angry when you don't want to go out with them after work.

Ew, hell, no. I’m not wearing some dude’s ring unless he’s committed to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She got asked out on a date that he tried to frame as "not a date" (just wants advice!) and turned it into not-a-date for real (bringing a girlfriend, talking about her boyfriend). I think that your discomfort makes sense but also that you might not understand, as a guy, the layers women have to navigate to keep guys from feeling rejected when you reject them. Their kids are on a team together so she has to see him in the future and if he gets his feelings hurt he could make it extremely uncomfortable. He could badmouth her to other parents, harass her when he sees her, stalk her, get violent, none of it is out of the realm of reality.

This.

Unless you are there to physically protect her every moment of the day OP, you can't police how she tries to gently let down guys. I would have actually invited you along instead of the girlfriend, but that's me.

If you two don't want to get married for whatever reasons you have, have you thought about giving her a nice ring to wear on her left hand? Would she like one? It's a universal signal for "not available." She could even pick on out that doesn't have engagement ring vibes.

I used to wear one all the time when I was single and working with the public. Sometimes random guys who you've never met before get really angry when you don't want to go out with them after work.

Not his job to protect her.

Anonymous wrote:She got asked out on a date that he tried to frame as "not a date" (just wants advice!) and turned it into not-a-date for real (bringing a girlfriend, talking about her boyfriend). I think that your discomfort makes sense but also that you might not understand, as a guy, the layers women have to navigate to keep guys from feeling rejected when you reject them. Their kids are on a team together so she has to see him in the future and if he gets his feelings hurt he could make it extremely uncomfortable. He could badmouth her to other parents, harass her when he sees her, stalk her, get violent, none of it is out of the realm of reality.

This.

Unless you are there to physically protect her every moment of the day OP, you can't police how she tries to gently let down guys. I would have actually invited you along instead of the girlfriend, but that's me.

If you two don't want to get married for whatever reasons you have, have you thought about giving her a nice ring to wear on her left hand? Would she like one? It's a universal signal for "not available." She could even pick on out that doesn't have engagement ring vibes.

I used to wear one all the time when I was single and working with the public. Sometimes random guys who you've never met before get really angry when you don't want to go out with them after work.

Something doesn't add up. She was intrigued by the offer, which is why she accepted and brought the friend to justify actually following through with it. If she were not interested she would have shut the door instantly.

I didn't ask her not to go, or anything. I didn't make a big deal of it.

I think you should have spoken up and had a conversation about it. I think it's normal for you to feel uncomfortable and apparently it's normal for her to consider it no big deal.

It would be one thing if she had said she wasn't interested but would like to introduce him to a friend or make it a double date. I'm a woman and this going out on a non-date would really have me scratching my head.

Men become hostile when rejected. That happens. So women have to spend a lot of energy figuring out how to reject them without bruising their egos.

Tiptoeing around male egos in dating/the workplace is an art form.

Anonymous wrote:It was inappropriate for her to go out with him, OP, whether she brought along a friend or not. There were so many easy ways to get out of it. If she was bringing a single friend, why wouldn't she invite you to come as well, making it a double date?

Agree. I totally understand the need for her to handle random men's feelings gently, but there were lots of other ways to handle it. And, also, if I were the guy I would be annoyed that I sort of asked someone out and then she showed up and tried to pull a switch-a-roo with a single friend. A better way would have been for her to say "I would to talk about dating. My current boyfriend and I were planning to get together with a single girlfriend of mine later this week; why don't you join us and we can all share experiences." Then he could have declined or agreed, knowing fully well what he was getting into.

The real question is what this means for the future. I don't think it's wrong for you to say "When stuff like this comes up again in the future, here is how I prefer you handle it." and see what she says. It seems weird to me that she wouldn't be open to a discussion about it unless she really wants the freedom to keep testing the waters with these date-but-not-dates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP

I agree with the advice to let it go. That is my plan.

What I am now wondering is:

Was I wrong to be uncomfortable about it?

She was a bit miffed at me for being uncomfortable around it. Is that fair?

Again, thanks everyone.

I posted that women spend their whole lives trying to manage men's feelings while letting them down. Sounds like, instead of trying to figure out how SHE feels and understate nd why she did what she did, you're focused entirely on how you feel and what you want her to do to manage your feelings too. Do you get it yet?

Lol women managing men’s feeling? Women don’t and never have cared about men’s feeling. If a man starts talking about feeling he gets shut down. I do not know where you are getting this stuff. Right now you are telling OP to forget about his feeling and concentrate on his girlfriends(ex) feeling. She is the one who went out with some random guy.

Let’s treat OP like he was a female. Hey OP trust your feels and that little voice telling you this is not right.

Women manage men's feelings all day every day. And they're so fragile they often snap and murder the whole family despite best efforts.

IF a guy wrote something similar about women, you all would be screaming bloody murder.

Yes, women are amazing. Yes, women are so much smarter and more mature than men.

All hail women.

Get real

DP but if a man wrote that women murder men all the time for rejecting them people probably would object because it would be factually inaccurate. Google "family annihilations" - this is a Y chromosome phenomenon. Women might not be categorically better than men, but they're objectively less murderous. Get real.

Murder is the standard by which to judge all male and female behaviors?

Yes, women may be objectively less murderous, however, to hear my wife talk about the machinations in her friend group, one could argue they are objectively more treacherous, conniving.

I can't quite tell which logical fallacy this is. Moving the goalpost? Red herring?

The comment that the person was replying to was scoffing at the idea that men murder women because they have difficulty managing their emotions. So yeah, we are talking about murder, not relational aggression (which women do because physical aggression is less socially acceptable for us, and because society encourages us to compete with each other, which sucks).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP

I agree with the advice to let it go. That is my plan.

What I am now wondering is:

Was I wrong to be uncomfortable about it?

She was a bit miffed at me for being uncomfortable around it. Is that fair?

Again, thanks everyone.

I posted that women spend their whole lives trying to manage men's feelings while letting them down. Sounds like, instead of trying to figure out how SHE feels and understate nd why she did what she did, you're focused entirely on how you feel and what you want her to do to manage your feelings too. Do you get it yet?

Lol women managing men’s feeling? Women don’t and never have cared about men’s feeling. If a man starts talking about feeling he gets shut down. I do not know where you are getting this stuff. Right now you are telling OP to forget about his feeling and concentrate on his girlfriends(ex) feeling. She is the one who went out with some random guy.

Let’s treat OP like he was a female. Hey OP trust your feels and that little voice telling you this is not right.

Women manage men's feelings all day every day. And they're so fragile they often snap and murder the whole family despite best efforts.

IF a guy wrote something similar about women, you all would be screaming bloody murder.

Yes, women are amazing. Yes, women are so much smarter and more mature than men.

All hail women.

Get real

DP but if a man wrote that women murder men all the time for rejecting them people probably would object because it would be factually inaccurate. Google "family annihilations" - this is a Y chromosome phenomenon. Women might not be categorically better than men, but they're objectively less murderous. Get real.

Murder is the standard by which to judge all male and female behaviors?

Yes, women may be objectively less murderous, however, to hear my wife talk about the machinations in her friend group, one could argue they are objectively more treacherous, conniving.

Murder is the actual comment you were objecting to. And no, women are not objectively more treacherous and conniving, although it's entirely possible you are married to a sociopath.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP

I agree with the advice to let it go. That is my plan.

What I am now wondering is:

Was I wrong to be uncomfortable about it?

She was a bit miffed at me for being uncomfortable around it. Is that fair?

Again, thanks everyone.

I posted that women spend their whole lives trying to manage men's feelings while letting them down. Sounds like, instead of trying to figure out how SHE feels and understate nd why she did what she did, you're focused entirely on how you feel and what you want her to do to manage your feelings too. Do you get it yet?

Lol women managing men’s feeling? Women don’t and never have cared about men’s feeling. If a man starts talking about feeling he gets shut down. I do not know where you are getting this stuff. Right now you are telling OP to forget about his feeling and concentrate on his girlfriends(ex) feeling. She is the one who went out with some random guy.

Let’s treat OP like he was a female. Hey OP trust your feels and that little voice telling you this is not right.

Women manage men's feelings all day every day. And they're so fragile they often snap and murder the whole family despite best efforts.

IF a guy wrote something similar about women, you all would be screaming bloody murder.

Yes, women are amazing. Yes, women are so much smarter and more mature than men.

All hail women.

Get real

DP but if a man wrote that women murder men all the time for rejecting them people probably would object because it would be factually inaccurate. Google "family annihilations" - this is a Y chromosome phenomenon. Women might not be categorically better than men, but they're objectively less murderous. Get real.

Murder is the standard by which to judge all male and female behaviors?

Yes, women may be objectively less murderous, however, to hear my wife talk about the machinations in her friend group, one could argue they are objectively more treacherous, conniving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP

I agree with the advice to let it go. That is my plan.

What I am now wondering is:

Was I wrong to be uncomfortable about it?

She was a bit miffed at me for being uncomfortable around it. Is that fair?

Again, thanks everyone.

I posted that women spend their whole lives trying to manage men's feelings while letting them down. Sounds like, instead of trying to figure out how SHE feels and understate nd why she did what she did, you're focused entirely on how you feel and what you want her to do to manage your feelings too. Do you get it yet?

Lol women managing men’s feeling? Women don’t and never have cared about men’s feeling. If a man starts talking about feeling he gets shut down. I do not know where you are getting this stuff. Right now you are telling OP to forget about his feeling and concentrate on his girlfriends(ex) feeling. She is the one who went out with some random guy.

Let’s treat OP like he was a female. Hey OP trust your feels and that little voice telling you this is not right.

Women manage men's feelings all day every day. And they're so fragile they often snap and murder the whole family despite best efforts.

IF a guy wrote something similar about women, you all would be screaming bloody murder.

Yes, women are amazing. Yes, women are so much smarter and more mature than men.

All hail women.

Get real

I wouldn't be screaming bloody murder, I would just link to some statistical evidence to show that it's inaccurate.

Here is an article about why it happens. It is really sad, actually, the way society discourages men from managing their own emotions. https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/05/mens-emotions-women-labor-patriarchy.html

I don’t get why she didn’t bring you as well s her friend. I also don’t buy that he cold called her from the team roster. A jealous girl literally goes out with other guys… I would be done. Mwho

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP

I agree with the advice to let it go. That is my plan.

What I am now wondering is:

Was I wrong to be uncomfortable about it?

She was a bit miffed at me for being uncomfortable around it. Is that fair?

Again, thanks everyone.

I posted that women spend their whole lives trying to manage men's feelings while letting them down. Sounds like, instead of trying to figure out how SHE feels and understate nd why she did what she did, you're focused entirely on how you feel and what you want her to do to manage your feelings too. Do you get it yet?

Lol women managing men’s feeling? Women don’t and never have cared about men’s feeling. If a man starts talking about feeling he gets shut down. I do not know where you are getting this stuff. Right now you are telling OP to forget about his feeling and concentrate on his girlfriends(ex) feeling. She is the one who went out with some random guy.

Let’s treat OP like he was a female. Hey OP trust your feels and that little voice telling you this is not right.

Women manage men's feelings all day every day. And they're so fragile they often snap and murder the whole family despite best efforts.

Lol sure men are total to man up and stop whining. Men are not to have feeling. Who the hell wants their feeling managed? This says more about you view men. Yes let’s manage those inconvenient feelings men have.