Anonymous
Post 07/28/2021 21:09     Subject: Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Are they cranky during the day? Maybe they don't need that much sleep. Try a block of quiet time before bed.
Anonymous
Post 07/28/2021 20:32     Subject: Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
I bet they are both overtired. My 5yo wakes around 630 and he is asleep in bed at 730. Shorten the bedtime routine a ton. By midweek, he needs to be down by seven to not be worn out.

Black out curtains, early dinner, no screens and separate if you can. Melatonin for the oldest for a few weeks to help him adjust to getting to sleep faster. The two year old may follow his lead without a buddy in crime.
Anonymous
Post 07/28/2021 11:44     Subject: Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My 5 year old son's evening routine:

Dinner around 5pm.

Play time till 630pm then time allowed to put away toys and get ready for bath. He also gets a melatonin gummy before his bath time.

Bath time starts around 645pm and lasts about 20 minutes. Time includes play time with bath toys.

After his bath I brush his teeth, hair, clean ears, and check nails for trimming. He gets his diaper on and night time lotion applied.

In the bedroom I have the blinds and curtains closed. A/C is lowered and the ceiling fan on. Lights are dimmed and tv is set for cartoons lowest volume setting. We co-sleep with our son so he sleeps in our king size bed. Before being tucked in he says his prayers, we read a short story, hugs and kisses. By this time melatonin has kicked in and he's out for the night. I keep a sippy cup of water on the nightstand for him just incase. He's usually a sleep by 745pm. We're free to enjoy the evening. On occasion if he's awake a little longer he will lay quietly until he's ready to sleep. He's not whiny and does not require us to lay with him. Some people may disagree with this routine and that's fine it works for us. He usually wakes up around 7am and will lay quietly if we're sleeping.









You give him melatonin just because?


Melatonin is all natural and has minimal side effects. My son has had zero issues taking it. I can change him before I go to sleep and he doesn't even flinch. I read up on it and asked his Pediatrician before starting him on it.


Melatonin is a powerful hormone and its effects on children are not well understood. Per: https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/melatonin-what-you-need-to-know

Is melatonin safe for children?

In addition to issues mentioned above, there are some things to consider regarding melatonin’s safety in children.

Melatonin supplements appear to be safe for most children for short-term use, but there aren’t many studies on children and melatonin. Also, there’s little information on the long-term effects of melatonin use in children. Because melatonin is a hormone, it’s possible that melatonin supplements could affect hormonal development, including puberty, menstrual cycles, and overproduction of the hormone prolactin, but we don’t know for sure.

Possible melatonin supplement side effects reported in children have usually been mild and have included:

Drowsiness
Increased bedwetting or urination in the evening
Headache
Dizziness
Agitation.



DP. There really aren’t any studies either way that show chronic melatonin use as good or bad in children. We do know that it suppresses cortisol secretion and the HPA axis, so it will ultimately decrease your body’s stress response. Maybe this is good and it decreases stress and works as a mild anxiolytic or antidepressant.
On the other hand, the pituitary gland also produces growth hormone, FH and LSH (which are important hormones in stimulating production of estrogen and testosterone). So who knows what chronically suppressing these hormones does in a developing child. There is no literature on it.

I’m always surprised that many pediatricians recommend this so casually. I’m even more surprised that pp feels that she has done her homework on this. When I have looked into it, I can’t find enough to say either way. If pp has some additional data, she should publish it.

Anonymous
Post 07/28/2021 11:15     Subject: Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Separate them, for God's sake!
How hard is it, it is not working like this, and you have the rooms.
Anonymous
Post 07/28/2021 11:15     Subject: Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
When our kids were little, we worked till 5. Pick p kids after, it would never be before 6:30 pm dinner. But, if I worked till 3 or 4, we were in Canada then, I would take them to Tim Hortons and they would have a nice soup there.
Then around 6, dinner when DH got home. If we both were not home till 6, I mean you have to put the plates and wash hands and all, even if you are just warming up food from yesterday.
Anonymous
Post 07/28/2021 11:09     Subject: Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Our 2 yo takes a long nap during the day and doesn't go to bed until 930 or 10 pm. Doesn't like flossing and brushing, but goes to bed pretty quickly. Wish he would sleep earlier though...
Anonymous
Post 07/28/2021 09:37     Subject: Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Anonymous wrote:I would separate their rooms or stagger their bedtimes.


+1
If you can't separate rooms, staggering bedtimes will make likely make a huge difference. We used to have to do this and occasionally go back to this even now (ages 9 and 13). Its the only thing that consistently cuts down on the bed time chaos. They feed off of each other and intentionally annoy each other. Sometimes just having one parent sit in one of the kids room is enough to avoid them getting side-tracked and delaying going to bed. Sometimes they are over-tired and just want to annoy everyone, so separating them by bed time and standing/sitting in their rooms moves things along. I tend not to interact, unless its something important or someone wants a hug.
Also, if you engage in the fighting, arguing, or pleading with them to go to bed, this often prolongs things. Getting face-to-face with a kid, telling them that there is no further discussion, and that its bed time will move things along. Don't engage. Minimize conversation and repeating yourself. Stay on task. You don't have to answer every question, or any if you feel they are intentionally delaying. You can table their questions for the next day. The goal is for the kids to understand that its bed time and nothing else.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2021 14:01     Subject: Re:Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If there is an option for a separate room, why would you do this to yourself?


He has his own room when he is ready for it. For now we've embraced co-sleeping and the bond it has built. I absolutely love waking up to his smile. This stage will be a memory before we know it.



Now it sounds like it is a problem. No need to run everyone's night if you don't have to.


It's the OP who has her kids in their own room and is the one complaining not the person who's posting about co-sleeping. Her evening isn't ruined her child is asleep by 7:45 with minimal fuss and they all seem to enjoy it per the PP. DCUM finds every and any opportunity even if it doesn't make sense to put down on co sleeping


Hey, everyone has to do whatever works for them, but to be fair, co-sleeping with a 5 year old with the TV on throughout bedtime and needing to use medication to aid sleep is certainly outside of the norm.


+1
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2021 14:00     Subject: Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Anonymous wrote:Irregardless is not a word and I do care if it is in a dictionary
Educated people correctly say "irrespective." Now that the English grammar lesson is over, I put my kids to bed and told them this was it-- No excuses. No noise. If you can't sleep then no speaking, crying, or laughing. It was bedtime.


This was the first thought I had as well.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2021 13:57     Subject: Re:Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
They need to go to bed earlier, like 7 pm. You're missing the window. Yes it sucks to eat dinner so early for a few years but it's worth it when your kids sleep.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2021 12:20     Subject: Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would put the 2 year old down before the 4 year old. That gives you time to connect/snuggle/big kid time with the 4 yo and the 2 year old can get enough sleep.

Good luck!
.

Op here we did do this last night (2 yo first at 7:30, one on one time with 4yo till 8) and it helped (4 yo went to bed willingly.). But they still did not fall asleep for another hour and kept each other up giggling). Dh left room with only periodic checks/chastising. Thanks everyone for the advice.


That's great. I would maybe let the 4 yo stay up (out of the room, doing calm and non-screen things) til the 2 yo is asleep. Try for 7:15 for the 2 yo and then 8:30 for the 4 yo maybe? But if the 4 yo has to go in before the 2 yo is asleep, I would admonish the "big kid" ahead of time not to talk to the little one. Like, get conspiratorial about it, "you know how 2 yo is, eye roll, doesn't really know how to go to sleep like a big kid...." and "thanks for helping us out as the big kid!" etc. And if the talk even after that, I would sternly shush the minute I heard it. And tbh probably target the little in my firmness, so the big one feels guilty, and redoubles their efforts to ignore/tamp things down on their own. this is so bizarre and psychologically twisted, but it's exactly what I did!
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2021 10:44     Subject: Re:Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Anonymous wrote:Honest question- do those of you who feed their children dinner at 5 work outside the home or does a nanny feed them and you eat separately?

I have children the same age and we can’t make it home before 6:30 and then we still have to eat. Though I have thought about packing a bento box and having the kids eat on the way home from daycare and put on pjs there then come home brush teeth and in bed by 7.


WFH this past year+ has made early dinners infinitely easier. But in normal commuting situations we stagger our commutes so that one parent picks up the kids by 5 and we're home by 5:15. We usually have food more or less prepared already -- pasta or rice cooked the day before, something that had been slow cooking during the work day (chicken thighs, often), or a freezer meal ranging from home cooked and frozen to junk food like chicken nuggets or whatever. We always have frozen vegetables on hand and steam those up quickly in the microwave. In this scenario the parent is usually rushing to put food on the table but can usually manage to start eating by 5:30. The other parent is usually getting home around then and will sit down and eat all together, ideally, but often the two parents eat together later on. My kids are now 5 and 2 but DH and I are still WFH mostly so the commute rush scenario was from more than a year ago.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2021 10:31     Subject: Re:Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Anonymous wrote:Honest question- do those of you who feed their children dinner at 5 work outside the home or does a nanny feed them and you eat separately?

I have children the same age and we can’t make it home before 6:30 and then we still have to eat. Though I have thought about packing a bento box and having the kids eat on the way home from daycare and put on pjs there then come home brush teeth and in bed by 7.


I never fed my kids at 5 even when they were little, it would have been basically impossible with two working parents. What we used to do is feed them at 6:30, bedtime at 7:30 and then the adults ate after they were in bed. The kids either ate kid food for dinner that I could throw together really quickly (fruit, chicken nuggets, microwaved vegetables, mac n cheese) or leftovers from the previous adult dinners.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2021 09:20     Subject: Re:Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
For anyone who doesn't have enough time to cook: look into crock-pot meals, making salads the night before and/or batch cooking. You can figure out a way to have homecooked food for kids, even if it means taking a container to work with you for each child and warming up the meal you made the night before so that the kids can eat it during your commute home.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2021 14:20     Subject: Re:Bedtime-what are we doing wrong ?
Anonymous wrote:Honest question- do those of you who feed their children dinner at 5 work outside the home or does a nanny feed them and you eat separately?

I have children the same age and we can’t make it home before 6:30 and then we still have to eat. Though I have thought about packing a bento box and having the kids eat on the way home from daycare and put on pjs there then come home brush teeth and in bed by 7.
.

Op here. I wfh, start dinner at 4:00, pick up kids at 4:30 because they come home starving for some reason (even though they both have afternoon snack.). Frankly if I don’t have dinner ready I stop by fast food. It is a big advantage of wfh. I’m not sure if I could get my kids in bed by 7 though as it’s so bright outside even with blackout curtains.