Anonymous wrote:If name recognition is important, I wouldn't bother with any LAC.

The vast majority of people on this planet have never heard of Williams or Amherst or Bowdoin.

And absolutely no one knows what Denison, Dickenson or whatever F and M is. Seriously, I pay attention to colleges pretty closely because we just went through it with two kids.

Couldn't tell you what states these schools are in.

LACs are so obscure for the vast majority of people.

Spoken by a true HYPSYM reject. A lack of education/knowledge does not make your statement true. Anyone that has ever looked at the top schools in the country knows these powerhouses. So do top employers.

Anonymous wrote:Never heard of any of them until I started reading DCUM college.

I still get confused between Denison Dickinson and Davidson…

Some people are easily confused.

Franklin & Marshall by a mile

Never heard of any of them until I started reading DCUM college.

I still get confused between Denison Dickinson and Davidson…

Anonymous wrote:OP - I totally understand the importance of fit and that the rankings are BS, but I’m having a hard time giving up the notion that if a student’s family is going to pay so much money it’s better to spend it on a more well-known institution.

(Though it is a shame that in this country schools with good sports teams end up being much bigger brandnames with more cultural currency than colleges that actually focus on learning.)

I think both kinds of schools focus on learning. And a lot of schools with good sports teams are also highly ranked.

If name recognition is important, I wouldn't bother with any LAC.

The vast majority of people on this planet have never heard of Williams or Amherst or Bowdoin.

And absolutely no one knows what Denison, Dickenson or whatever F and M is. Seriously, I pay attention to colleges pretty closely because we just went through it with two kids.

Couldn't tell you what states these schools are in.

LACs are so obscure for the vast majority of people.

Anonymous wrote:The thing with LACs is that most people haven't heard of most of them – even the highly respected ones – save for the ones in their city or that a friend/family member attended. Even top LACs like Amherst or Pomona probably aren't on the radar of your neighbor Fred who lives around the corner.

(Because their sports teams don't end up on TV very often.)

What matters is if people in grad-school admission offices or HR departments have heard of them. In that case, most LACs at least in the top 100 of USNWR have good to great recognition. And many LAC grads will have good research experience and professor recommendations by their senior years. So going for the school that seems like the best fit – and that has a decent reputation for your kid's probably major – is the best strategy.

On my sister’s Google super day, she said only 1 out of 6 interviewers knew what swarthmore was (class of 2016)

Even AWS has hit or miss name recognition with elite employers outside the northeast

I’m still a big proponent of students going to LACs but you have to do your personal legwork that is less needed out of t20s

Given that, virtually no one outside of academia will know the schools op is asking — there is no brand difference - so whatever is the best fit for the kid and the kid will proactively network in their chosen field from day one — that’s the best fit

I don’t know but we visited both Dickinson and F&M and I really liked both schools. F&M felt a bit more intellectual, Dickinson maybe a bit more mainstream.

The thing with LACs is that most people haven't heard of most of them – even the highly respected ones – save for the ones in their city or that a friend/family member attended. Even top LACs like Amherst or Pomona probably aren't on the radar of your neighbor Fred who lives around the corner.

(Because their sports teams don't end up on TV very often.)

What matters is if people in grad-school admission offices or HR departments have heard of them. In that case, most LACs at least in the top 100 of USNWR have good to great recognition. And many LAC grads will have good research experience and professor recommendations by their senior years. So going for the school that seems like the best fit – and that has a decent reputation for your kid's probably major – is the best strategy.

Dickinson is definitely a ticket into a top graduate school.

Definitely not Dickinson.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot of regional name recognition with LACs. Meaning, I suspect F&M has more NYC area recognition and Denison has more in Chicago. Not sure about Dickinson.

- Westchester native and grad of a different LAC who considers F&M the strongest of the 3

The Westchester are sends a lot of kids to PA schools for some reason, so the PA schools are widely known there. My daughter is at Lehigh, which is widely known and respected throughout NY, NJ, and PA, but no one down here has heard of it past a vague mention of their uncle so and so who went there 50 years ago for Engineering.

I am the poster you are quoting and agree. LACs like F&M, Lafayette, Union, Lehigh (I realize Lehigh no longer markets itself as a LAC but I promise you most people in the tri state area group it with the colleges I am naming) etc are very well known and regarded there.

Lehigh has never been marketed as an LAC. If anything its longstanding reputation was as an engineering school. Also, it has 5000 students, twice the usual LAC size.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe try a bigger school that is less prestigious according to stats but has wider name recognition like Syracuse.

I mean maybe. But name recognition shouldn't be the only factor at play here. Syracuse is great and surely offers programs and an environment that are a great fit for come students, but I feel like it's known best for basketball.

If your DC is set on grad school like law, med, phd, an LAC like Denison, Dickinson, or Franklin and Marshall might be a great fit as the smaller size would afford closer relationships with profs to write recommendations, smaller class sizes etc. Perhaps more individualised attention from the college, career services than one would have at Syracuse being one among tens of thousands of students.

ultimately figure out what DC likes, and which environment they vibe more with. I feel like sometimes small LACs in ruralish areas are tough if you're not an athlete. `but you have to visit to see I think, talk with the students.

Of Denison, Dickinson, and F+M, my impression is that F+M is most prestigious, though I know very little about it, and it was not part of my DC's search.


Denison may have changed but its reputation in my mind is that it's a school for dumb WASPs and boarding school kiddos. I've met some very pretentious folks in new england who went to denison, not the brightest bulbs but the biggest superiority complex.

Dickinson seemed like they tried during my DC's search, but I just wasn't impressed. Can't really imagine why someone would choose this school unless they're an athlete. Or maybe you really like rural pennsylvania. They highly emphasised study abroad, more so than other schools, I guess kids can't bear the thought of spending a full four years in Pennsylvania. Also they're had declining enrolment lately.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a lot of regional name recognition with LACs. Meaning, I suspect F&M has more NYC area recognition and Denison has more in Chicago. Not sure about Dickinson.

- Westchester native and grad of a different LAC who considers F&M the strongest of the 3

Interesting - thanks for posting. Grew up in Midwest so had heard of and knew folks who went to Denison. F+M seems to have more DMV than NYC recognition (I've lived in both). Trying to get DS to look at Dickinson and F+M. Denison may be too Greek, country clubby for him, though OMMV.

I know that was true 20 years ago, don't think it's so now. Denison has come a long way in recent years.

Yes, probably so. OTOH, good friend just wrapped the last 15 years of 5 DCs applying to college (2 recruited athletes, 4 @ top 25 schools). When I discussed Denison with her, she said DC should explore but guesses that he will find it "too Greek, country clubby."

None of these three are either famous or obscure enough for name recognition to be an issue.