Just want to repeat what PP said about Johns Hopkins. Take her there. They will take very seriously your situation, especially the part about her trying to avoid taking the medication. You should tell them that you can’t monitor her 24/7 especially since she is lying. I took DC to Hopkins ER and they were admitted to Inpatient. Their social workers both in the ER and Inpatient assisted in finding outpatient providers and stepdown programs. DC really benefited from Inpatient.

If you haven’t already, you may need to put restrictions on her phone time. Not saying to take it away bc kids really use it as a lifeline, but you should put limits on it. One of the benefits to getting her checked into Inpatient is that they will have to give up electronics and social media.

Also, OP, in your interactions with her, don’t make this about you. It’s fine to tell us in this forum that she is hurting you by doing this, but please don’t tell her that. She is not doing this to you on purpose and telling her this will just add fuel to the fire of self-loathing and depression.

Anonymous wrote:

They knew, not of every instance but examples and enough that they were ongoing, charges were pressed (for me), emergency protection was given for all of us. Absolutely she needs more help. And I already get help as I can process more. It's the legal part that had me waiting because if parental rights where I am and his have not been fully stripped yet, though he has no access, no contact and no say on medical, education, etc. Just counseling. It is quite sick and when I agreed to postpone stripping his say on counseling so he would agree to everything else (best at the time) covid hadn't happened and I didn't know court would drag out so long.

I'm trying my best but honestly this is a lot and I am weary and in need of the sort of rest that feels it will only come when I am no longer legally connected to the abuser. It is sick. The court system is awful. People with cancer would never be treated like this, yet abuse really is as deadly if not more and victims are punished again and again by courts and process.

No words of wisdom for you, just sending you a hug. This sounds so hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks. It is helping to read these responses. I'm not wanting to say where we live mostly because I'm scared about this somehow being tied to my legal case and a failed court system judge deciding this is reason to give her to her dad.

Her father who physically, mentally and emotionally abused her (and started grooming for other abuse) has in the past had it declared that she would not receive any counseling without his involvement. And it's so messed up, in the past he would only allow a therapist he knew who excused the abuse and had no experience with trauma. This has all been so awful. I am trying to get decision making over therapy but waiting on legal process. What he did to her was magnified in assault much worse to me. And so the abuse continues with his influence, control and rights, yet she, the victim is treated like she has none.

And I have worked hard to heal and build a new life and try to get divorced and protect my kids and now this is triggering me because she is so cold, and doesn't want to get better or care about anything and seems to want to destroy me personally, and everything that nearly cost my soul.

She is absolutely depressed, experiencing ptsd, and all the rest of it. And I am having a really hard day.

How much of this past trauma was discussed in the ER evaluation? Was it just the immediate suicidal ideation that was addressed, or did you/she let them know that there was a huge amount of past trauma that had never been fully addressed?

I'm asking because, in this whole thread, this is the first time you've really been clear about how bad things actually were. You alluded to putting things behind you, that you'd recently gotten a fresh start, but this sounds like something that would make moving on impossible for anyone, without some intensive help for both of you.

I can imagine that neither of you wants to talk about ANY of it, but you definitely need to be 100% clear to anyone working with your daughter what "what he did to her" really consisted of—especially if she's never had any therapy up to this point. That's the only way she'll get the right kind of help. And if she saw or is aware of "what he did to you," that will affect her as well. Eventually, you'll need therapy for both of you together, maybe even all three of you, depending on how old your other child is.

I'm so, so sorry you're going through this, but it's clear you're strong and brave and an amazing, loving mom, even though you may not feel like it sometimes. We're all rooting for you both.

They knew, not of every instance but examples and enough that they were ongoing, charges were pressed (for me), emergency protection was given for all of us. Absolutely she needs more help. And I already get help as I can process more. It's the legal part that had me waiting because if parental rights where I am and his have not been fully stripped yet, though he has no access, no contact and no say on medical, education, etc. Just counseling. It is quite sick and when I agreed to postpone stripping his say on counseling so he would agree to everything else (best at the time) covid hadn't happened and I didn't know court would drag out so long.

I'm trying my best but honestly this is a lot and I am weary and in need of the sort of rest that feels it will only come when I am no longer legally connected to the abuser. It is sick. The court system is awful. People with cancer would never be treated like this, yet abuse really is as deadly if not more and victims are punished again and again by courts and process.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks. It is helping to read these responses. I'm not wanting to say where we live mostly because I'm scared about this somehow being tied to my legal case and a failed court system judge deciding this is reason to give her to her dad.

Her father who physically, mentally and emotionally abused her (and started grooming for other abuse) has in the past had it declared that she would not receive any counseling without his involvement. And it's so messed up, in the past he would only allow a therapist he knew who excused the abuse and had no experience with trauma. This has all been so awful. I am trying to get decision making over therapy but waiting on legal process. What he did to her was magnified in assault much worse to me. And so the abuse continues with his influence, control and rights, yet she, the victim is treated like she has none.

And I have worked hard to heal and build a new life and try to get divorced and protect my kids and now this is triggering me because she is so cold, and doesn't want to get better or care about anything and seems to want to destroy me personally, and everything that nearly cost my soul.

She is absolutely depressed, experiencing ptsd, and all the rest of it. And I am having a really hard day.

How much of this past trauma was discussed in the ER evaluation? Was it just the immediate suicidal ideation that was addressed, or did you/she let them know that there was a huge amount of past trauma that had never been fully addressed?

I'm asking because, in this whole thread, this is the first time you've really been clear about how bad things actually were. You alluded to putting things behind you, that you'd recently gotten a fresh start, but this sounds like something that would make moving on impossible for anyone, without some intensive help for both of you.

I can imagine that neither of you wants to talk about ANY of it, but you definitely need to be 100% clear to anyone working with your daughter what "what he did to her" really consisted of—especially if she's never had any therapy up to this point. That's the only way she'll get the right kind of help. And if she saw or is aware of "what he did to you," that will affect her as well. Eventually, you'll need therapy for both of you together, maybe even all three of you, depending on how old your other child is.

I'm so, so sorry you're going through this, but it's clear you're strong and brave and an amazing, loving mom, even though you may not feel like it sometimes. We're all rooting for you both.

Just remember, *depression lies*, and it usually speaks louder than any other voices, including yours. It lies, and tells her all sorts of ridiculous nonsense: that the people who love her would be better off without her, that she's a terrible person, that nobody can understand how she feels.

Your daughter isn't lying to you, the depression is.

But just because she can't hear or feel all the love and support you're giving her doesn't mean you're doing it wrong, or not doing enough. You can't love someone out of depression, but you can't stop trying.

Sometimes, though, you can build a scaffold around them and protect them as they heal. Right now, that scaffolding is made of medication and therapy, and, it sounds like, inpatient care.

And you absolutely need your own scaffold, in the form of therapy—or at least a support group, which is more likely to be free. Check the NAMI website for groups near you (https://nami.org/Find-Your-Local-NAMI/Affiliate/Programs?classkey=a1x36000003TN9LAAW).

There's lots of good information on that site about how to care for yourself as you help a loved one through recovery. Once you've got her to a safe place, this is the priority. Put your own oxygen mask on first!

The people I know who have come out of the fog, however tentatively, say that it helps to hold on to that mantra: depression lies. Hopefully it will help you, too, as you try to understand what's happening inside your daughter's mind.

OP here. Thanks. It is helping to read these responses. I'm not wanting to say where we live mostly because I'm scared about this somehow being tied to my legal case and a failed court system judge deciding this is reason to give her to her dad.

Her father who physically, mentally and emotionally abused her (and started grooming for other abuse) has in the past had it declared that she would not receive any counseling without his involvement. And it's so messed up, in the past he would only allow a therapist he knew who excused the abuse and had no experience with trauma. This has all been so awful. I am trying to get decision making over therapy but waiting on legal process. What he did to her was magnified in assault much worse to me. And so the abuse continues with his influence, control and rights, yet she, the victim is treated like she has none.

And I have worked hard to heal and build a new life and try to get divorced and protect my kids and now this is triggering me because she is so cold, and doesn't want to get better or care about anything and seems to want to destroy me personally, and everything that nearly cost my soul.

She is absolutely depressed, experiencing ptsd, and all the rest of it. And I am having a really hard day.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I can't sleep.

Part of me is scared to send her to a program, from stories of kids just learning tips and tricks from other kids.

I thought things were looking a little better, but then she was lying about being on her phone, and I looked at it and she was searching stuff like "how to tongue your meds". The thing is I asked her how she felt about taking some medication for a little while and she said good.

And tonight she took a video "when your best friend ruins your suicide plans". She wanted to hang out in her room a little. I went in and she had some makeup on and said she wanted to do it just for something to do. She likes art and likes makeup art and I believed her. But turns out she was making this video, among other stuff.

Today she didn't do school because she was tired but she was on tiktok and Instagram all day (but hid it everytime I came in).

I'm a single mom, limited resources, other child, bad history of domestic violence and a long hellish road behind and I feel so at a loss. The lying and manipulating feels impossible to contend with. The total lack of care feels scary.

I know I can't keep coming here writing all this everyday. The therapists I'm trying to get haven't gotten back to me yet but just how do some of you do this for years.

The psychiatric resources in our area are often subpar. The inpatient facility my child was in out of state spoke directly to many of this area’s hospitals and programs when looking for a partial hospitalization program for her to release into and was appalled. They very very strongly suggested we take the lengthy drive to the Hopkins ER if at all possible if we needed to get her to an ER for evaluation and potential admission. Hopkins and Shepard Pratt have very respected mental health resources. I would suggest given what you are saying taking her to a different ER than the first you used - maybe Hopkins.

It also sounds like your child baseline is hiding her depression from you. This is common for kids with mental illness like depression. Believe her actions not her words. Basically what I was told by a favorite therapist is that my child’s promises and words were simply unreliable. She could mean what she said to me as she said it but then do the opposite

Also yes if your child goes inpatient they will learn new negative behaviors AND they will receive the help, medication and therapy they need. Inpatient you really can’t have one without the other.

I am so sorry you are going through this.

I’m so sorry your daughter is suffering and you are too. Going through similar situation here.time helps. You just want to hug them and love them yet they’re so down they can accept it. Keep doing what you’re doing. Take care of yourself when you can.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I can't sleep.

Part of me is scared to send her to a program, from stories of kids just learning tips and tricks from other kids.

I thought things were looking a little better, but then she was lying about being on her phone, and I looked at it and she was searching stuff like "how to tongue your meds". The thing is I asked her how she felt about taking some medication for a little while and she said good.

And tonight she took a video "when your best friend ruins your suicide plans". She wanted to hang out in her room a little. I went in and she had some makeup on and said she wanted to do it just for something to do. She likes art and likes makeup art and I believed her. But turns out she was making this video, among other stuff.

Today she didn't do school because she was tired but she was on tiktok and Instagram all day (but hid it everytime I came in).

I'm a single mom, limited resources, other child, bad history of domestic violence and a long hellish road behind and I feel so at a loss. The lying and manipulating feels impossible to contend with. The total lack of care feels scary.

I know I can't keep coming here writing all this everyday. The therapists I'm trying to get haven't gotten back to me yet but just how do some of you do this for years.

You just do it because you have to. It changes your life and it ages you. It sucks like nothing I’ve ever experienced. You come to terms with your limits. Lots of tears, real chest heaving crying like your heart is being squeezed out of you. But every single day you just do it because you don’t have a choice. Keep coming back, OP. We’ve been there and want to support you.

As for the things you shared, honestly I’d be thinking about another trip to the ER. Given this, even if she doesn’t get admitted, maybe you will get a PHP referral. Finding a therapist is really tough. And you’re right, the lack of care is scary, especially if you can’t private pay. If you give us an idea where you live we might know some resources.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I can't sleep.

Part of me is scared to send her to a program, from stories of kids just learning tips and tricks from other kids.

I thought things were looking a little better, but then she was lying about being on her phone, and I looked at it and she was searching stuff like "how to tongue your meds". The thing is I asked her how she felt about taking some medication for a little while and she said good.

And tonight she took a video "when your best friend ruins your suicide plans". She wanted to hang out in her room a little. I went in and she had some makeup on and said she wanted to do it just for something to do. She likes art and likes makeup art and I believed her. But turns out she was making this video, among other stuff.

Today she didn't do school because she was tired but she was on tiktok and Instagram all day (but hid it everytime I came in).

I'm a single mom, limited resources, other child, bad history of domestic violence and a long hellish road behind and I feel so at a loss. The lying and manipulating feels impossible to contend with. The total lack of care feels scary.

I know I can't keep coming here writing all this everyday. The therapists I'm trying to get haven't gotten back to me yet but just how do some of you do this for years.

She needs to be in a program, whether in-patient or partial hospitalization. Call the therapist you were working with and share the above. She was assessed as low-risk because she lied or she was scared at the time and meant it, but only temporarily. Will your insurance cover a stay? A week of in-patient would give you a break while she is fully assessed and get you on the path to recovery as a family. It should include some family sessions and then step down to the next level of care when she is ready.

I don’t have particular advice but you can come back here every day if you need to, as often as you need. Please do. Lots of people here have BTDT. It’s so clear you love your daughter and are doing the absolute best you can, and it’s so, so hard. Aside from the depression and anxiety there’s also the typical hormonal and developmental teen stuff, which is difficult in and of itself. I’ve been thinking about you and saying prayers for you both. I hope you were able to get some rest.

OP here.
I can't sleep.

Part of me is scared to send her to a program, from stories of kids just learning tips and tricks from other kids.

I thought things were looking a little better, but then she was lying about being on her phone, and I looked at it and she was searching stuff like "how to tongue your meds". The thing is I asked her how she felt about taking some medication for a little while and she said good.

And tonight she took a video "when your best friend ruins your suicide plans". She wanted to hang out in her room a little. I went in and she had some makeup on and said she wanted to do it just for something to do. She likes art and likes makeup art and I believed her. But turns out she was making this video, among other stuff.

Today she didn't do school because she was tired but she was on tiktok and Instagram all day (but hid it everytime I came in).

I'm a single mom, limited resources, other child, bad history of domestic violence and a long hellish road behind and I feel so at a loss. The lying and manipulating feels impossible to contend with. The total lack of care feels scary.

I know I can't keep coming here writing all this everyday. The therapists I'm trying to get haven't gotten back to me yet but just how do some of you do this for years.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. She was assessed at the hospital, then saw a doctor today and has started on zoloft.

She is triggered to go into her room. So is staying downstairs but just wants to be alone and be given space. Yet giving her space is what got us here and I am so stressed and don't know what to do. She wants to isolate and watch tv and says it helps her but it doesn't. Yet I feel scared to try too much, else she will maybe be pushed over the edge.

She feels resistant to help in adjusting any perspectives and her habits after how she was talking about the therapist yesterday. I feel upset and helpless how to treat her right now. Does anyone have suggestions?

Maybe you and she can just go on a road trip for a few days. Get away from social media and all the triggers. Go on some hikes, get pizza, mini-golf, talk, listen to music, etc. Maybe check with doctor?

If you have the financial resources (this is super sad, but true) - there are options where she would go somewhere and get lots of therapy, intervention and your family would have a chance to regroup and prepare yourselves for the future. Check out wilderness therapy programs - Look at evoke, outback and blue ridge - if you decide to go this route, hire an educational consultant to help place your daughter.

The other thing is if you don't already have a therapist to support YOU, go get one today. You need coaching to navigate this world. Changing parenting approaches can make a lot of difference in getting through the days.