OP, my husband is also a huge introvert who doesn't understand small talk. Here is something to remember: small talk isn't about the content. It's about BUILDING TRUST. People won't get into the deep topics until they trust you.

I'm a big extrovert who also is a reporter and author and voracious reader who has found many many interesting people to talk to at the playgrounds. Agree with PP above that this area is full of smart, interesting people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the past few years, I've been quite lonely.

I am a big reader...I enjoy talking about social/economic trends, hot-button issues, my work, meaning-of-life kind of stuff. I like to debate and analyze, and have deep conversations. I was always a nerd and didn't fit in at my small private school, where kids were mostly talking about pop culture I was totally unfamiliar with.

At college, I found my group, and that was awesome. Then, we grew up and grew apart. My college friends don't have kids yet, we have changed priorities and interests, and more practically, everyone's living all over the country/the world. We catch up by phone every few months and try to see each other 1-2 times per year, but that's not a lot, and every year I feel like we have less in common.

I work at an interesting and intellectually stimulating job but all my coworkers are much younger (early 20s), so while we have great working relationships, they're not exactly friends (plus I'm in a senior role so it's unwise to befriend others anyway).

I'm lucky to have a flexible schedule, working mostly half days, so I try to meet people at preschool/school pickup, playgrounds, etc. I live in a suburb. The people I meet are mostly SAHMs and the conversations are mostly about kid/family stuff - kids' classes, gossip, "where did you buy XYZ for kid?", updates about school, vacations, weekend plans, etc. It's enjoy these topics to some extent, but it's all they seem to talk about, and when I bring up some news story or something from work, they just tune out. So the relationships are pretty shallow.

When I do meet working moms, they're (understandably) extremely busy... weekdays are hectic, weekends are family time, everyone seems to have friends already and no one is interested in investing their limited time in getting to know a stranger to see if maybe a real friendship will develop. Some women just refer me to their nanny to plan playdates. Even people that do genuinely seem interested in connecting end up being too busy and things fizzle out. I have tried approaching people in person, joining groups for working moms, joining Facebook groups in my local area, joining groups organized around some of my interests... people just don't have time.

I would really love to have close friends that I can talk to about anything, people who really get me. Not just fellow parents that I hang out with just because we have kids the same age and chat about school and summer camp. Is this even possible? What can I do?

OP, you need to re-read what you wrote. I'm not sure if I highlighted the correct portions because I only have a minute here, but you essentially say that your college friends don't have kids so you don't have anything in common with them anymore but the moms you meet want to talk about their kids and you want to discuss topics outside of that. And then the working moms are too busy to spend a ton of time doing a deep dive and creating a strong friendship with you.

I say this gently but you need to meet people where they're at. Why can't you discuss things not kid-related with your college friends? If you're asking them to come have lunch with you and your kids and then debate CRT, you're kind of barking up the wrong tree. And if you want the other moms to discuss something other than their kids, why don't you try to hang out with them when your kids aren't around? And if you want to get to know other working moms, maybe don't expect them to spend five hours with you baring your soul to them.

I hope you find your people, truly. I just think you may need to reevaluate what you're looking for and see that maybe you can get it, just not the way you want it.

Yep.

OP, you are a lazy relationship seeker. You don't want to put in the work to get to know people and meet them where they are.

Relationships are give and take, You don't want to give.

I have friends from all works of life. I have two kids and my bestfriend has none. We are as close as we were in undergrad. I have friends who are SAHMs. I have others who are working moms. Your post is full of reasons why nobody meets your criteria. You need some serious reflection into why you are pushing everyone away.

I'm not the OP, I'm the socially awkward PP who is 4 years into parenting and hasn't made a single mom friend yet.

I also have a best friend with no kids (she is child free by choice). I am as close to her as ever. BUT I also want local mom friends with things in common. My best friend likes the kids just fine - in small doses. But she isn't going to come and meet me at the playground and hang out while the kids play. I meet her one on one for brunch to catch up (and will continue to do so). I see the moms in my neighborhood meet up with strollers on random mornings and walk and chat. I would really love that kind of friendship too.

I do agree OP should open her "criteria" to SAHMs. Plenty of amazing women take breaks from their careers to meet their families' needs. Leaving the workforce doesn't mean they won't be able to relate to the career issues of those of us who are working moms. Perhaps they are keeping discussions to small talk because they don't know OP very well yet and are trying to stick to safe topics.

Op doesn’t sound like she would be a good friend. I would pass.

Haven't read the whole thread but strongly agree with the PP who said it gets SO MUCH EASIER as your kids get older.

I think women chill out when their kids hit 7 or 8 or so and you stop focusing on what everyone else is doing/what their kid is doing etc. I am a WM and I developed a lot of good friends at the bus stop, and through meeting my kids' friends' moms at school, soccer, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the past few years, I've been quite lonely.

I am a big reader...I enjoy talking about social/economic trends, hot-button issues, my work, meaning-of-life kind of stuff. I like to debate and analyze, and have deep conversations. I was always a nerd and didn't fit in at my small private school, where kids were mostly talking about pop culture I was totally unfamiliar with.

At college, I found my group, and that was awesome. Then, we grew up and grew apart. My college friends don't have kids yet, we have changed priorities and interests, and more practically, everyone's living all over the country/the world. We catch up by phone every few months and try to see each other 1-2 times per year, but that's not a lot, and every year I feel like we have less in common.

I work at an interesting and intellectually stimulating job but all my coworkers are much younger (early 20s), so while we have great working relationships, they're not exactly friends (plus I'm in a senior role so it's unwise to befriend others anyway).

I'm lucky to have a flexible schedule, working mostly half days, so I try to meet people at preschool/school pickup, playgrounds, etc. I live in a suburb. The people I meet are mostly SAHMs and the conversations are mostly about kid/family stuff - kids' classes, gossip, "where did you buy XYZ for kid?", updates about school, vacations, weekend plans, etc. It's enjoy these topics to some extent, but it's all they seem to talk about, and when I bring up some news story or something from work, they just tune out. So the relationships are pretty shallow.

When I do meet working moms, they're (understandably) extremely busy... weekdays are hectic, weekends are family time, everyone seems to have friends already and no one is interested in investing their limited time in getting to know a stranger to see if maybe a real friendship will develop. Some women just refer me to their nanny to plan playdates. Even people that do genuinely seem interested in connecting end up being too busy and things fizzle out. I have tried approaching people in person, joining groups for working moms, joining Facebook groups in my local area, joining groups organized around some of my interests... people just don't have time.

I would really love to have close friends that I can talk to about anything, people who really get me. Not just fellow parents that I hang out with just because we have kids the same age and chat about school and summer camp. Is this even possible? What can I do?

OP, you need to re-read what you wrote. I'm not sure if I highlighted the correct portions because I only have a minute here, but you essentially say that your college friends don't have kids so you don't have anything in common with them anymore but the moms you meet want to talk about their kids and you want to discuss topics outside of that. And then the working moms are too busy to spend a ton of time doing a deep dive and creating a strong friendship with you.

I say this gently but you need to meet people where they're at. Why can't you discuss things not kid-related with your college friends? If you're asking them to come have lunch with you and your kids and then debate CRT, you're kind of barking up the wrong tree. And if you want the other moms to discuss something other than their kids, why don't you try to hang out with them when your kids aren't around? And if you want to get to know other working moms, maybe don't expect them to spend five hours with you baring your soul to them.

I hope you find your people, truly. I just think you may need to reevaluate what you're looking for and see that maybe you can get it, just not the way you want it.

Yep.

OP, you are a lazy relationship seeker. You don't want to put in the work to get to know people and meet them where they are.

Relationships are give and take, You don't want to give.

I have friends from all works of life. I have two kids and my bestfriend has none. We are as close as we were in undergrad. I have friends who are SAHMs. I have others who are working moms. Your post is full of reasons why nobody meets your criteria. You need some serious reflection into why you are pushing everyone away.

OP - you sound somewhat similar to me, and I have made all my close adult friends through group activities: book group and an organized coed sport that I play.

Repeated exposure where you don't have to coordinate schedules is key.

I don't have a lot of awesome parent friends, but having enough regular close friends is enough for me.

Hang in there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't dismiss the SAHMs because of this level of superficial conversation. I think many people would take a little bit longer to have conversations about hot ticket items because it can require a level of comfort that takes time to build. Add into the fact that this is occurring when you're distracted watching toddlers or preschool aged kids, I just think it takes time that you're not giving them. You seem a bit dismissive.

As for how I met my friends who are like the people you're looking for, I joined an activity for myself. Most are working parents with kids of various ages. But again, it took time for friendships to develop beyond the superficial conversation stage.

OP here. I've hung out with people for 2-4 years and gotten to know them quite well. It's not like I write people off after one playdate. We just don't click and don't have much in common...I keep hanging out with them anyway, but they still change the subject whenever I try to bring up the deeper topics that interest me.

I am a SAHM. I went to Harvard and had a long career before deciding to stay home. I check all your boxes. Just because someone is smart does not make you friends. I have a mix of working and SAHM friends. I have a lot of friends I met in mom groups, preschool and the PTA. We live in an area with well educated parents.

You should focus on making friends, not mom friends.

I'm also a SAHM and, like you, I went to fancy brand schools and had a fancy job before chucking the job. Also, like you, I have a lot of friends --- "mom friends", but also old friends from school and from work, and neighbors, and friends from volunteer gigs, and friends from book groups, and from classes I've taken, etc. My youngest child is now in college, and it's been interesting to see my peer moms who have been WOHM for years suddenly realizing that they don't have friends. I am very grateful that, as a SAHM, I've had the opportunity to cultivate and maintain friendships. Maybe in the post-pandemic era, as we think about what a healthier work-life balance could look like, we can give some consideration to the benefits of friendships.

Did your DH maintain his friendships?

OP, I think you sound sound like you are interesting and I would be happy to have a friend like you! I would say though, that the only way to make the kind of friendships you want are to invite people to do things with you, can keep inviting them. It takes time to build that intimacy and to transition from acquaintance to friend. You have to put in some work up front to get to that point. Good luck! And I don't work on Fridays if you ever want to get a coffee

OP sounds insecure and judgmental and maybe that's her problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is making my heart hurt because I relate to it so much. I wasn't expecting parenthood to be so lonely.

DP and can relate - you aren't alone. My best friends either don't have kids (child free by choice) or don't live anywhere near me. We talk on the phone and text daily but it's just not the same as what I imagine having local mom friends must be like.

In some ways I'm similar to OP - I'm a voracious reader, passionate about my career, interested in world news and politics as well as pop culture, and a bit of a nerd. OP at least seems extroverted enough to approach people. I have a very hard time with this, and whenever I manage to force myself to, I stutter and my mind goes blank. I come off SO terribly awkward. It's not just in my head - I have lived in my neighborhood for 4 years, there are many young moms around, and not a single one is even at acquaintance level.

Same. Same. Our neighborhood FB Buy Nothing and Families groups have had posts about social events once everyone is vaccinated. I'm hoping to meet some more like-minded nearby parents that way.

Anonymous wrote:This post is making my heart hurt because I relate to it so much. I wasn't expecting parenthood to be so lonely.

DP and can relate - you aren't alone. My best friends either don't have kids (child free by choice) or don't live anywhere near me. We talk on the phone and text daily but it's just not the same as what I imagine having local mom friends must be like.

In some ways I'm similar to OP - I'm a voracious reader, passionate about my career, interested in world news and politics as well as pop culture, and a bit of a nerd. OP at least seems extroverted enough to approach people. I have a very hard time with this, and whenever I manage to force myself to, I stutter and my mind goes blank. I come off SO terribly awkward. It's not just in my head - I have lived in my neighborhood for 4 years, there are many young moms around, and not a single one is even at acquaintance level.

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks for all the advice so far. To clarify a few things:

(1) Yes, I have a husband, he's awesome, we talk about everything, but I'd love a couple close friends as well.

(2) No, I do not ONLY want to talk about deep topics. I really enjoy talking about kids and travel and food and gossip. But I *also* want to talk about running and growing my company, challenges in managing my team, and other work stuff (and hearing about other people's work experiences too!) And I want to talk about social issues, like billionaire philanthropy and voter suppression and antiracism curriculum in schools, all the latest news/drama about the backlash at top public and private schools, and so on.

If you are not interested in these topics, it's cool, many people aren't. But my question is how to find people who are (and who are also looking for new friends).

(3) No, I do not have autism (?!?!?) and I am aware of how small talk works. And I know that relationships take time. I have put lots of time into getting to know people, before the pandemic we were doing many playdates, parties, and moms nights out. Since people kept inviting me to these things, I don't think I pushed them away with my horrible social skills. But even when I got to know people more closely, they just did not share my interests and we never became close friends.

(4) Why am I looking for parent friends...because people who don't also have young kids don't really get that whole side of me. Also, people without young kids are on totally different schedules...between work and kids, I'm also really busy I don't have a ton of time for adults-only events.

Probably the most insightful piece of advice here has been that I'm looking for too much -- different friends fulfill different needs. I hear that, but I think lots of people have 1-2 best friends who can relate to them on all levels and talk about anything.

I know this is possible, because I actually had two close mom friends like this when my oldest was just born. We lived in a big city and it was much easier to meet people. Those friendships were amazing, but we all moved to different parts of the country and so we can't see each other. By the way, with both of those women, the connection was obvious right away. We clicked on the playground and within days we were talking like old friends about everything under the sun. But since moving, I've met probably 200-300 different parents (over the course of a few years) and never found anyone like that again.

OP, a couple of thoughts:

You listed a whole lot of things you'd like to talk about. I am the same way, so I get it. But I don't understand how you think you are going to get ALL of that in the package of another mom who works part-time and has kids around the same age as your kids. I mean, maybe you could get that lucky, but rather than continuing to search for that unicorn, it makes more sense to find various people who fill those slots.

You say you had two best friends when your oldest was born. I get that they don't live near you anymore, but my best friend doesn't live near me either, so the majority of our interactions are over the phone. We wake up really early in the morning so we can walk and talk. Yes, it's way more fun when we're actually in the same place at the same time, but you have to be creative about the ways you're going to spend time with people. Talking on the phone, doing video chats, and texting are ways people get close to others. In fact, with one of my mom friends, the deepest conversations we've ever had, surrounding heavy topics like addiction and racism, have happened over text. That's because when we see each other in person it's usually either with a larger group or with our kids or when we're trying to just have fun and get a pedicure or something.

Some of the most interesting conversations I've had with other friends have been in book club - we pick provocative or thought-provoking books and have some really deep conversations about them. We only discuss those issues once a month during book club, but it's possible that finding an outlet like that could scratch one of your itches. Also, while the book club members are in my neighborhood, we did several virtual sessions during the beginning of COVID and then when it was too cold for us to be able to meet outside and spread out. Not ideal, but still, they were satisfying.

I feel like a multi-faceted person, which it sounds like you are as well. However, if I had to consider the people I had conversations about various topics with, it would be a long list. Some people I talk to about child issues (like serious, personal issues, not just which swim team is the best) - those people are non-judgmental and not competitive so we can be honest about our kids and know that it's a safe place. Some people I talk to about things like racism - those often happen to be my friends who are POC because I want to understand their experiences and opinions and also my friends who spend time reading or thinking about that topic. Some people I talk to about addiction in a family - those people are ones who have been through it in one form or another as well. Some people I talk to about work-related topics because we are in the same field and experiencing the same issues. And so on and so forth. Even my best best friend of more than half my life doesn't check all those boxes! And frankly, neither does my husband, because the addiction is on my side of the family, not his. Of my other really close friends, many check multiple boxes, but none check them all. None.

Where do you live? Left DC recently but my closest friends were city neighbors in their 60s and 70s who had fascinating careers and thought my DC was adorable. Friends don’t need to be moms. The best option for friends are the people near you as your life is currently structured.

This post is making my heart hurt because I relate to it so much. I wasn't expecting parenthood to be so lonely.

OP here, thanks for all the advice so far. To clarify a few things:

(1) Yes, I have a husband, he's awesome, we talk about everything, but I'd love a couple close friends as well.

(2) No, I do not ONLY want to talk about deep topics. I really enjoy talking about kids and travel and food and gossip. But I *also* want to talk about running and growing my company, challenges in managing my team, and other work stuff (and hearing about other people's work experiences too!) And I want to talk about social issues, like billionaire philanthropy and voter suppression and antiracism curriculum in schools, all the latest news/drama about the backlash at top public and private schools, and so on.

If you are not interested in these topics, it's cool, many people aren't. But my question is how to find people who are (and who are also looking for new friends).

(3) No, I do not have autism (?!?!?) and I am aware of how small talk works. And I know that relationships take time. I have put lots of time into getting to know people, before the pandemic we were doing many playdates, parties, and moms nights out. Since people kept inviting me to these things, I don't think I pushed them away with my horrible social skills. But even when I got to know people more closely, they just did not share my interests and we never became close friends.

(4) Why am I looking for parent friends...because people who don't also have young kids don't really get that whole side of me. Also, people without young kids are on totally different schedules...between work and kids, I'm also really busy I don't have a ton of time for adults-only events.

Probably the most insightful piece of advice here has been that I'm looking for too much -- different friends fulfill different needs. I hear that, but I think lots of people have 1-2 best friends who can relate to them on all levels and talk about anything.

I know this is possible, because I actually had two close mom friends like this when my oldest was just born. We lived in a big city and it was much easier to meet people. Those friendships were amazing, but we all moved to different parts of the country and so we can't see each other. By the way, with both of those women, the connection was obvious right away. We clicked on the playground and within days we were talking like old friends about everything under the sun. But since moving, I've met probably 200-300 different parents (over the course of a few years) and never found anyone like that again.