Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually divorced my husband because of this. I lost so much respect for him over the years as I took on more and more of

the household responsibilities and that led to other problems. I also worked full time and he would sit on his computer while I mowed the lawn, paid the bills, basically did it all. The result of him becoming increasingly emasculated and he would complain about how I was always so tired and never seemed to have time for him. I explained that I wouldn’t be so tired if he took on some of the chores- he would for a few days but would almost immediately revert back to his old ways.

He’s since remarried to a very submissive woman and he now mows the lawn and fixes things around his house. I think it’s great that he finally started contributing. My world didn’t change when he moved out, in fact my household chores became less. Win-win.

Why do you say she is submissive?

I think women are so caught up with being men that they forget their power is in their femininity. The way tog st men to do stuff around the house isn’t yelling etc. it’s coaxing. Obviously she’s done this right, she has him doing things despite the fact you think she’s submissive. I bet she’s runs that show.

LOL! Who has time for this?! Coaxing someone to fold the laundry, do the dishes, take out the trash, make the bed every morning? That would take hours! If a man needs to be coddled and stroked to get anything done, that's pathetic and, again, clearly a lame excuse just not to do the work.

SHould I divorce my wife for not contributing the family income? such an unfair division of labor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the casual attitude toward divorce is awful. The advice should be to marry a man who agrees with your clear expectations on these things. Marry a man who will talk things through, is a good listener, will compromise, and isn't selfish. Marry a feminist. Not "lose your kids for 50% of the time and show them it's okay to walk away when things get hard despite no abuse." Y'all are f'ing up your kids.

How many feminist men do you think there are?

One time I added “must be a feminist” to my online dating profile and my messages dropped to zero. Before that, I’d get upwards of 20 a day.

Unfortunately, since men won’t become feminists on their own, they’re gonna have to be dragged into it by women not putting up with their sh!t anymore.

There’s pretty much zero incentive for men to be real feminists. Have to come home from work and do chores? Have to wake up in the middle of the night to take care of kids? Have to miss out on facetime and happy hours and whatever to do the pick up? Why bother when someone else will do it?

And when women get fed up and leave, these men are rewarded with 50 percent custody (which they can usually outsource), so that they can pay minimal child support to the mother who has put her earning potential on the back burner so that she can pick up the slack.

THIS. This is why not getting married is a really attractive option

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the casual attitude toward divorce is awful. The advice should be to marry a man who agrees with your clear expectations on these things. Marry a man who will talk things through, is a good listener, will compromise, and isn't selfish. Marry a feminist. Not "lose your kids for 50% of the time and show them it's okay to walk away when things get hard despite no abuse." Y'all are f'ing up your kids.

I am not recommending my kids get married. It is not worth it. Also, my ex was none of those things (he would not compromise, was selfish and barely spoke to me). It is not okay to stay in a marriage that is lopsided or miserable. That is bad for kids. Showing them that it is okay to put your needs first is the most valuable thing I can do. I was raised the opposite and look where I ended up (getting into a marriage that was not good from the start (and had a lot of pressure to marry) and staying due to pressure to stay....um, wrong.). There is a difference between marriages with love and ups and downs than a marriage where there is no respect or caring or love--then you leave.

As a young woman I think all the time if I ever want to get married. Based on how many of the men (and women) on here talk about marriage, I'm leaning towards no. It seems to me there is that expectation that when a woman marries she becomes a kind of house slave or servant, and she should be OH SO GRATEFUL if a man even picks up his socks at the end of the day, or, as many argued yesterday on the mothers day thread, be grateful for receiving one stale donut on Mother's Day.

it just seems so degrading and horrible, why would anyone sign up for it? Especially when we now have other options like sperm donors. You will still have to do some household work but at least you won't be constantly disrespected by a manbaby. Just really struggling to see the upside given the dynamic of an overwhelming number of marriages

Anonymous wrote:I actually would prefer for a hypothetical H to be out of my hair and just provide so that I can hire help as needed. Non participation in any of the kid’s activities would be a no go though.

Studies show divorced women often have to spend LESS time on chores and get MORE sleep. A lot of husbands just add a huge extra mess without doing anything to clean or help. It's crazy!!!

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why one *wouldn't* divorce over this assuming both spouses work. Isn’t this like the most basic aspect of a partnership?

It really is. But statistically speaking so many women do the vast majority of household labor, though thankfully that appears to be changing with the younger generations

Just want to say that I dated quite a few feminists and they were SO LAZY. One used to say to me constantly "I wouldn't mind being the SAHD" and he had no problem with women being the breadwinner or sole earner. Sure- because he was lazy! He didn't expect me to do his chores, he just didn't see why chores mattered. And he particularly hated male oriented chores because he hated that people expected men to do oil changes and mow the grass. So his car was always breaking down and we got letters from our HOA about our grass length. Awesome.

DH would not self describe as a femenist (he actually hates the word), but I'm sure he is. He believes our daughters can do absolutely anything. He takes them hunting, he taught them to change the oil, he buys them building toys too. He also expected me to work and didn't want me to be a SAHM because he liked having an equal relationship between the two of us. He believes in equality between everyone. He pulls his 50%, but a lot of the reason why is because he doesn't think he's better than me or that I'm his servant who should be cleaning up for him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cheaper to hire a cleaner. It does kick the can.

Not really. Penny wise pound foolish.

When people show you who they are believe them. Your partner is showing you they do not care about you and they will look the other way at your suffering. Do you think someone like that will be an advocate for you any other time you’re in a vulnerable position? Staying is taking a massive gamble that you never have a car accident, health issue, cancer, surgery or any other crisis for the rest of your life.

So true.

What she said ^^^

This has been a principal issue in my marriage — did virtually no chores, did virtually nothing with the kids but the occasional trip to the playground, night out with friends, or after school pickup — and one I have tried many times to reset/restructure, to no avail. Then when our emotional connection went with it I completely disengaged and started informally planning what a divorce would look like. I thought of how good my life would be when there was a forcing function for getting a break from my kids and not having to pick up after him.

He (finally) noticed my disengagement and how serious it was, and started to change his tune. Now with many hard talks and couples therapy he does more around the house and engaged with the kids (though not 50/50), but my feelings have changed and I’m not sure if it’s just too late now.

So technically it wouldn’t be “because of” the division of chores, but it was certainly the first nail. I think it’s more that a very inequitable division of chores and parenting indicates a kind of disrespect for your partner. The sadness, anger, resentment, exhaustion from facing that disrespect almost every day builds up and can become too tall a wall to get over.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the casual attitude toward divorce is awful. The advice should be to marry a man who agrees with your clear expectations on these things. Marry a man who will talk things through, is a good listener, will compromise, and isn't selfish. Marry a feminist. Not "lose your kids for 50% of the time and show them it's okay to walk away when things get hard despite no abuse." Y'all are f'ing up your kids.

How many feminist men do you think there are?

One time I added “must be a feminist” to my online dating profile and my messages dropped to zero. Before that, I’d get upwards of 20 a day.

Unfortunately, since men won’t become feminists on their own, they’re gonna have to be dragged into it by women not putting up with their sh!t anymore.

There’s pretty much zero incentive for men to be real feminists. Have to come home from work and do chores? Have to wake up in the middle of the night to take care of kids? Have to miss out on facetime and happy hours and whatever to do the pick up? Why bother when someone else will do it?

And when women get fed up and leave, these men are rewarded with 50 percent custody (which they can usually outsource), so that they can pay minimal child support to the mother who has put her earning potential on the back burner so that she can pick up the slack.

Men don't have to be feminists to not be lazy. DH would not self-describe as feminist. He just does stuff that the kids need and stuff the house needs. He is restless by nature and good at multitasking. Also, he likes the kids and cares about whether their brains rot from too much TV or whether they learn stuff.

I actually would prefer for a hypothetical H to be out of my hair and just provide so that I can hire help as needed. Non participation in any of the kid’s activities would be a no go though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the casual attitude toward divorce is awful. The advice should be to marry a man who agrees with your clear expectations on these things. Marry a man who will talk things through, is a good listener, will compromise, and isn't selfish. Marry a feminist. Not "lose your kids for 50% of the time and show them it's okay to walk away when things get hard despite no abuse." Y'all are f'ing up your kids.

How many feminist men do you think there are?

One time I added “must be a feminist” to my online dating profile and my messages dropped to zero. Before that, I’d get upwards of 20 a day.

Unfortunately, since men won’t become feminists on their own, they’re gonna have to be dragged into it by women not putting up with their sh!t anymore.

There’s pretty much zero incentive for men to be real feminists. Have to come home from work and do chores? Have to wake up in the middle of the night to take care of kids? Have to miss out on facetime and happy hours and whatever to do the pick up? Why bother when someone else will do it?

And when women get fed up and leave, these men are rewarded with 50 percent custody (which they can usually outsource), so that they can pay minimal child support to the mother who has put her earning potential on the back burner so that she can pick up the slack.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the casual attitude toward divorce is awful. The advice should be to marry a man who agrees with your clear expectations on these things. Marry a man who will talk things through, is a good listener, will compromise, and isn't selfish. Marry a feminist. Not "lose your kids for 50% of the time and show them it's okay to walk away when things get hard despite no abuse." Y'all are f'ing up your kids.

I am not recommending my kids get married. It is not worth it. Also, my ex was none of those things (he would not compromise, was selfish and barely spoke to me). It is not okay to stay in a marriage that is lopsided or miserable. That is bad for kids. Showing them that it is okay to put your needs first is the most valuable thing I can do. I was raised the opposite and look where I ended up (getting into a marriage that was not good from the start (and had a lot of pressure to marry) and staying due to pressure to stay....um, wrong.). There is a difference between marriages with love and ups and downs than a marriage where there is no respect or caring or love--then you leave.

That’s kind of sad to put your baggage on them. Most people do better in life with partners. Why not instead teach them how to have good boundaries and find people who treat them with respect? The best way to teach this is to model it yourself.

They can do what they want. But I am not pushing marriage as the end all be all. I had a lot of pressure. It was wrong and not worth it. I do not think it is a good institution for women at all in this day in age. I do not agree that most people do better in life with partners. I have seen no marriages in my life I think are worth it. Not one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually divorced my husband because of this. I lost so much respect for him over the years as I took on more and more of the household responsibilities and that led to other problems. I also worked full time and he would sit on his computer while I mowed the lawn, paid the bills, basically did it all. The result of him becoming increasingly emasculated and he would complain about how I was always so tired and never seemed to have time for him. I explained that I wouldn’t be so tired if he took on some of the chores- he would for a few days but would almost immediately revert back to his old ways.

He’s since remarried to a very submissive woman and he now mows the lawn and fixes things around his house. I think it’s great that he finally started contributing. My world didn’t change when he moved out, in fact my household chores became less. Win-win.

Why do you say she is submissive?

I think women are so caught up with being men that they forget their power is in their femininity. The way tog st men to do stuff around the house isn’t yelling etc. it’s coaxing. Obviously she’s done this right, she has him doing things despite the fact you think she’s submissive. I bet she’s runs that show.

No one should have to "get" a grown adult to do things around his own house.